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Rick

Baseball Talk

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Guest

Ouch!!

You are right, my bad. I was shocked when I saw .118, did not think he was doing that bad...lol. But still, 12 HR's is a bit weak if that is what he hits this year.

I would still choose Ortiz though grin.gif

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The Grebe

Man, you guys are Good! I believe that arguing baseball with any of you, is asking for a shredding! My wife and I are Twins fans since before they won their first championship, the T.V., radio, newspaper and yes, an occassional trip to the dome. SOOoo....I'm going to go out on a limb and state an opinion...my opinion...DM earns his keep at first with his defense, he sucks at the plate, his slumps are to often and to long. I believe that with the new batch of young lions on the way up, Koskie and DM become two of the expendable players.
You have to do more then just earn your keep, or hit the ball once in awhile when you are not injured. Was'nt DM supposed to be a future power hitter when he first came to the team? I seem to recall something about him being a big banger in the minors? What happened?

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wade22

Dougie Baseball is not a Major League first baseman. His glove is phenomenal, his locker-room presence might account for something. Heck, he might be a great guy in general. But first basemen NEED to have slugging average, home run output, or something that resembles power. Especially in the AL, where the DH makes run production paramount for success.
Hey, I get the whole ambience and feel for the Twins. I try to get to 20-30 games a year at the Dome. But Mientkiewitcz's glove does NOT save as many runs as a legitimate 1st bagger's bat will give you.
Right now he's batting .237 with 3 homeruns and 18 RBIs. That's paltry for a power position like first.
You need gloves in the middle infield. Rivas and Guzzie are streaky bats, but they're solid defenseman. The hot corner and first base NEED to produce runs. Period. It's called Baseball 101, and I see a lot of Twins fans ga ga over an overrated, no power, no bat first bagger. He's by far the most expendable position starter we have.
Right now though, the bullpen needs to put someone on the mound that can throw strikes. JC's disappointing season combined with Lohse's frustrating stretch might be a consistent sore spot for this team. Garcia in a Pale Hose uni could spell trouble...

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Farley

They say Garcia will start Wed. against the Twinkies.

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Guest

Where is the law or rule that states that a first baseman NEEDS to be a power hitter?

The Twins are a team built around defense and manufacturing runs. They do what they do and they do it well.

If the Twins were in last place, then you would have an argument, but they are in first. Until that changes.....

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Guest

Oh, by the way...see my post about Doug saving the careers of Guzman and Rivas...They are not the outstanding middle infielders you may think they are.

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genegodawa

A first baseman definitely needs a glove AND at least some power. Over at the Cubbies, we have lived with Buckner and Grace - not much for the long ball, but quite a few doubles and total hits.
Quite a diff approach compared to Ernie - but Mr. Cub had both a glove and the long-ball.

It all depends on the rest of the team what you can live with at diff postions. For many years, I didn't believe in that whole argument about living with a weak hitting shortstop just because of his gold glove.
I couldn't believe there weren't any players that could do both. But now you see it more and more (Tejada, Garciaparra, etc.)

You need it all to be a champ - and good pitching is a must.

Gene

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Ranckenstuff

Word on the streets is Jacque is being shopped around for another arm....GO TWINS

Get better Shannon We need that Bat!

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The Grebe

I guess Jones could be one of the expendables....if we could get someone for him! Terry Ryan, or whoever, really pulled one off when they got Stuart...I was even amazed when they were able to bring him back? From what I have seen of him since he has been with the Twins, he is a real time big leaguer! How does a low budget team that was on the edge of contraction, get a player like him? If they could do it before, they could do it again! When Kelty
was traded, I thought they had made a mistake...shows how much I know! Ortiz I thought was a good trade...goes to show how much I know! Maybe they could use DM, Koskie, and Jones as the chips and really come up with some winners?

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Guest

Not sure who they could get for that trio.

Even though it sounds like I am defending Doug, I need to look at it realisticly. Who would want him the way he is hitting right now? If he ever breaks out of his mental slump and just hits the ball, we have all seen what he can do when he's not in one of the slumps he's in now.

Koskie can hit the long ball but the guy just cannot stay healthy, and when he is somewhat healthy he still needs to sit out every 5th day.

I'd hate to see Jones go, but we have so much talent in the minors that need to be given the chance to play or we'll either loose em or they will continue to rot in the minors.

So who is out there?

Wouldnt it be nice to package a few prospects and maybe a regular or two and trade for a guy like The Big Unit?

I know I'm dreaming, but Randy has this year and maybe next left of being a very formidible pitcher. Who knows, he's a freak of nature and could maybe pitch another 5. Price tag is pretty steep, but the window for the Twins to do anything is closing quickly.

I think I'll start a new thread on Trade Rumors/wishes...lol.

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wade22

Doug's "slump" has pretty much a career-long one barring those ten games a few years back when he made contact.
This month he's batted .155 and NO ONE in the MLBs wants a bottom-30 producer (runs, hits, average) no matter how "good" his glove at first base is (sort of an oxy*****. no glove at 1st has premium value considering the position).
I caught some comments from Frank Viola the other night and he sounded like Morneau might have to be ready, like it or not. We've gotta fix this train wreck at first.

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The Grebe

That would really be the s***s, trade away DM, Koskie and Jones and then have them come up big, like Ortiz! Jones maybe, I'm not so sure about the other two? The twins have had a number of instances where a player will look average, or below, then go to another team and really bust out...I guess all teams experience that though?

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Guest

It's really no sense in arguing with you Wade since you obviously have a hate woody for Doug...lol.

He almost singlehandedly carried this team on his back for almost the entire first half of the season back in 2001. He's had 2 seasons batting over .300 and the other at .261.

This year seems to be heading below .300, but he still has time to pull it back up. Anytime you hit over .300, you are doing well and I'll take every other year at that level any day.

I hope your boy Morneu gets called up and they get rid of Doug and I hope Doug finds a home where he is more appriciated than he is with some of you so called experts. I hope he comes back and haunts this team as someone they should never have gotten rid of. And when Justin is making error after error and looking like a fool against major league pithcing, I hope you sit here and say, wow, what an improvement over DM.

ANOTHER GREAT PLAY BY DOUG AT FIRST TO ROB A HIT.....yea, he sux dont he?

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BackHerUp

You guys keep it up...the Tigers just won their sixth in a row and are 5 games out of first!! The Twins continue to lose and backtrack...(lost again tonight)
Who would have thought it possible? Me, of course!
You guys keep worrying about "Dougie Baseball" and the "Guzman/Rivas combo" and how badly you miss David Ortiz (a pure longball hitter- 21 hr's and 8 against the Yankees this season!), lament the losses of Kenny Rogers and Eric Milton (both with 10-2 records! A combined 20-4!!) , ...meanwhile, the Tigers are gonna (do what the Marlins did last year...) sneak up and leave you wondering how Alan Trammell did it!!!

It gives me chills just to watch and listen to Minnesota "fans" whine...(i.e; the Vikings debacle at Arizona, the Wild "no-show" for 2004, and the Timberwolves ("oh, the Eastern Division has nothing on the West!" GO PISTONS!!)...
You give us Detroit fans a tremendous appreciation for VICTORIES!

You know?
*I think the Vikings will battle the Bears for last place this season...

*The Pistons will repeat...since they play "team" basketball (and haven't been dismantled)...

* The Tigers will finish this season in first and advance to the ALCS...

*...and of course, the Red Wings will do what they always do...WIN! (They will win their 4th Stanley Cup in the last 10 years...with 2 different coaches)


Please accept my apologies for gloating... grin.gif
------------------
"Shhh...I'm fishing"

[This message has been edited by BackHerUp (edited 06-30-2004).]

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Guest

LOL,
No Wade, as long as it's good natured, anyone can rant and rave all they want...to a point....maybe I crossed that line?...lol...DONT ZAP ME RICK!!!...LOL

Anyhow....

Cooms still had some good years after we let him go. I think he wouldve beat our DH at the time's stats by a lot...could be wrong on that one but I'm pretty sure he did well for the cubbies for at least a couple of years.

Doug's still somewhat young and if he could ever get his head screwed on straight again, he'd be adequate at the plate.

Someone said here that Doug was sposed to be this big power hitter when he was in the minors....who's to say the same thing won't happen with Justin when he gets here, except instead of having a mediocre hitter who is a gold-glover, we'll have the same type of hitter with a glove made of lead!!

As for not being in first anymore, just remember that the Twinkies were 7 games out last year at the break. One series or month does not a season make.

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wade22

I know what you mean. I told a friend last night this is a typical Twins season; make us sweat for a few months and then blow away the competition in the last 4 or 5 series of the year to storm the division.
Justin Morneau was sent back down this year after his previous stint in the minors didn't seem to improve his plate performance. He still has a problem swing and he's far from the proven "answer" this team needs right now, aka Shannon Stewart from last season.
It just seems like our grip is slipping and we've got less and less cards to play with at the table. But we didn't win back-to-back AL Central titles for nothing. I'm sure Terry Ryan still has a trump left somewhere. Too bad we couldn't keep Milton, or that JC fell into a funk and Lohse is running out of steam as a MLB starter. Where's the Gambler when you need him?

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Flash

Twins got it again today 2-1. They need to do something to get some firepower. I hate to bash DM, but he has to go. I looked up his fielding percentage and it is great. However, some other 1B's with the same or better fielding percentage. Rafael Palmairo,
Tino Martinez, Jeff Bagwell. These are just a few. Who would you rather have at 1B?
Flash
"Set the Hook"

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friendlyfisher

DM is a good fielding fistbaseman and thats about it. You have to be careful with how many guys you have on your team that are just good at fielding and lousy at hitting. Take a look at the Expos, they have the best fielding % in the league but they are 26 and 51 dead last in the major leagues. They are in the middle of the pack for pitching but dead last for hitting. Of the three fasits of the game( Pitching Hitting Defence) most experts say you need two of the three to be a good team. THe expos are good at one ok at another and horible at the last. This means they should be an average team, they are not average. This must imply that the more important of the three is hitting.

So the best would be to have a good mix of players and try to work around your weakness. If the twins are not going to hit the ball out of the park then they need to play better small ball. This means more sac flys and maybe but a time or two. They have that new turf that slows the ball down and I rarely se them try to but for a hit. Being one of the best defensive teams and below average at hitting it might make sence to put a power hitter in the firstbase position. Thats my story and Im stickin to it. Friendly

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wade22

Hate woody? Wow Tom at least you're not taking our back and forths as personal attacks. I've got the numbers and stats to back me up and all you can do is drop personal rants and discuss my privates. Just kidding, I love a good discussion about my favorite team, even when that discussion involves my groin area.
I like Doug's glove a lot, I just consider him to be a major achilles heel. Morneau might not have his glove but at least he's got a little power.
4 of the top 10 slugging percentage and OPS (on base % plus slugging) leaders in the entire NL are first basemen. I know DM's in the AL but here's my point: the difference between a great glove at first versus a good glove at first is a lot smaller than the difference between a great bat at first versus a good bat (or in the case of our 1 bagger, a sordid bat). As for your previous statement about not worrying 'cuz we're #1; not true anymore. And I can't apologize for Frank Viola's comments as he knows a lot more about baseball than you or me.
He might have carried this team offensively in 2001 for a little stretch but dude this is sports. Ron Coomer was the Twins' only All-Star for a year---should we bring him back due to his past glory? Or do I have a "hate woody" for Ron Coomer too?
I'd like to see a trade before the deadline. It's only about 3 weeks away. I think the Twins' position of strength right now is to trade away some of our AA and AAA talent. Dangerous to mortgage one's future, but we've got a thin starting rotation, bullpen and batting lineup right now. Maybe when Shannon gets healthy we'll have a productive lead-off and then rearrange the batting lineup for more run production.
Gotta love Mauer's stick. His first AB last night was stellar; worked the count to 3-1 and then got the meat middle-in over the plate and punished Garcia. Guzman's having a career year; nice homerun last night and a pair of hits today already.
We'd still be in first place had we worked on Eric Milton's contract instead of signing DM for a 3-year extension. I hope he pulls out of his slump and proves me wrong.

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SCCO9803

Heck put Restovich or Morneau at first base. So what if they can't glove every liner down the line. At least we know that every time they come up, there's a possibility they can hit out.

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