Nets, The death of the lower Red if things do not change!

[northern blue]

stfcatfish, You're right, the outlet was what I was referring too. I wasn't sure on the details and got it confused with the garrison project (I should have checked into it before posting). Thanks for the info and the correction.

[Guest]

I thought I'd add a couple of bits to this discussion for the Canadian angle on Garrison and Devils Lake take a look at following site...

http://www.gov.mb.ca/natres/transboundary/

I believe everyone has arrived at the correct conclusion that this is a political issue. The only misgiving I have with all these efforts is that it will probably fall on deaf ears (I really don't want it to do this but we've got a government in place that will probably ignore the righteous concerns expressed here!)

I believe we should contact our elected representatives to 1)either inform them of the situation (making them knowledgeable) and 2) to ask them to express their opinion on the issue (I believe this is called accountability and comes to bare upon politicians at election time!).

Just my two bits..... And don't give up on the old Red. I believe what we are seeing to a larger extent is a "cycle" (albeit its not being helped by pollution and nets!)..... She has a way of making a miraculous comebacks now and again I guess we'll see next year what she has to offer

Tight lines,

Dan

------------------
Dan Kiazyk
Cat Eye Outfitter
http://www.geocities.com/dkiazyk2000
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by dkiazyk (edited 02-14-2003).]

[This message has been edited by dkiazyk (edited 02-14-2003).]

[Guest]

This commentary by Canadian Pro Angler Don Lamont is way too good not to pass along. Check it out guys!

Don lamont on 2/13/2003

RE: "Red & Walleyes"

More than thirty years ago Al Lindner of Minnesota along with his brother Ron, founded
In-Fisherman magazine and television and quickly built up a media empire that was recognized as the best by hard-core fishermen. Five years ago they sold that business and have since started another show called Anglers Edge.

Al is a member of the Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame and more than any other single individual in the sportfishing industry has helped create a huge growth in popularity in walleye fishing. He started the Professional Walleye Tournament Trail and has allowed many individuals associated with the sport to make a full-time living from it. Al had called me in early November from his office in Brainerd Minnesota, to ask how the fishing was on the Red and Winnipeg Rivers. He was interested in coming up and spending
some time filming a trophy walleye segment for his new show. That led to me calling him back to talk about the magnificent 15.4
pound walleye that a Friend of mine, Russ Heatherington had caught at Tobin Lake the third week in October. When Al heard about the size of that fish he tried to put in
context for me what an impressive fish that was and how valuable a resource like that is to the communities that are close to it. Here are his comments.

-the benchmark for a trophy walleye in the United States is 12 pounds -he has fished trophy walleye water for more than four decades all over North America and his two biggest walleye, both 13 pounds, have been
caught in Canada, one at Pine Falls and the other on the Red River while filming a segment of The Complete Angler show. -only a handful of walleye bigger than 15 pounds are caught each year anywhere and Al firmly believes that the three best places in the world to catch a walleye this size are the Red River, Pine Falls, and Tobin Lake
anglers from out of province and out of country will travel hundreds of miles and spend thousands of dollars for the opportunity to catch a walleye over 12 pounds, never mind 15!

Starting in late August there is a steady stream of walleye anglers coming
across the border, some heading to the Red and some up to Pine Falls to stay
at the Papertown or one of the other hotels there catering to the walleye
fisherman.
Almost all of these anglers are there for one reason, to catch the walleye of
lifetime. You see they know what Al Lindner knows, that these are the places that produce big fish and in a good year like in 1999, a lot of them.

One individual or small minority groups cannot jeopardize the whole resource. There needs to be an overall strategy in place to deal with domestic, commercial and sportfishing overharvest on an immediate basis. Jack should be required to have a permit and be limited to the number of nets and harvest. This is only smart resource management.The column about Jack and his netting and his netting on the Red has been big news on Walleye Central (And FM.com ), a major cause for concern for tourism operators in this part of the world.

My column in the Free Press this week talks about the Canadian Fly Fishing Championships that will be held in September in the Parkland region and the huge economic spin-off that it will create, again good business.

Simple as that. Let this government start treating this industry with the respect it deserves and get moving! Right now there is a groundswell of support for a Sportfishing coalition here in Manitoba. More on that shortly.

[Steve Foss]

Hey Dan:

I've come into contact with a lot of elected officials over the Devils Lake outlet. As a Grand Forks Herald reporter I covered the flooding Devils Lake for about five years.

In my experience, politicians on both sides of the border are well educated on this issue. I'm not defending politicians in general. The worst of them only care about their power, and getting re-elected. The best of them still realize that if they don't do what the majority of their constituents want them to, they won't get re-elected to continue their good work.

So they do what the people want them to most of the time, unless they take a moral stand on a particular issue that differs with the folks back home.

A Devils Lake outlet is tremendously popular in the counties surrounding D.L., and North Dakota politicians must respond to that public desire. Most around D.L. dismiss Canadian concerns about water quality and foreign biota as unlikely, citing the huge distances such things would have to cover before being introduced into Lake Winnipeg. Some dismiss it simply because they feel their need outweighs Canadian concerns. And their need is great.

I think Canada has valid concerns. While D.L. has been high enough through history to overflow into the Sheyenne and discharge its water into the Red and on north, it hasn't done that since man has changed the lake, so any changes to the ecosystem could, as the Canadian say, hurt Lake Winnipeg ultimately.

As always, I'm concerned that man seems to foul so much of what he touches. And, as always, I'm resigned that he'll keep doing it.

[Guest]

The DL diversion issue is a separate concern and not all that critical when you factor into the formula a couple of things. The amount of water that would be flowing once the system stabilized would be nominal. Secondly the proposed irrigation plans on the upper Devils Lake basin would further limit the need to dump excess DL down the Sheyenne River and eventually into the Red River.

DL issues I find more disconcerting are the salinity level and the possible erosion on the lower Sheyenne from increased water velocity flowing into the Sheyenne River system. This may impact the lower 1/2 of the Sheyenne River more then the rest of the system including the Red River. By the time it hits the Red the salinity dilution would be such it would be nominal once it intermingles with the waters of the Red River, Certainly so by the time it reaches Canada. If the flow is closely monitored and controlled blowing the channel out of the Sheyenne should not be a concern. The erosion factor is a disturbing point in my eyes as well.

OK, back to Canada.

The city of Winnipeg also has a very big issue with phosphates they dump into the Red daily. What happened to the funds that were set-aside to updating that city sewer system? A good question to ask the Manitoba & Canadian Gov.?

The phosphate load being dumped into the Red from the city of Winnipeg is staggering. Definitely a huge threat to the big lake and the extreme lower Red River! All of the water plants on the US side have phosphate systems in place, not so in Canada.

Constant water sampling on the US Red has shown a constant drop in phosphate contamination over the past years. Yet it still remains the #1 concern and the systems are constantly being improved. Meanwhile the loads being dumped into the Red from the city of Winnipeg and other city’s on the extreme lower Red, have quadrupled.

Many Canadians are aware of this, and are trying to push for rapid change, but it has mostly fallen on deaf ears.

We all can do more, lets start by letting folks/officials know, we know!

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 02-17-2003).]

[Guest]

I'm sending this into the MEDIA to see what they think about what's going on with the Red River.

Lauren McNabb
Global News
Global Television Network
Winnipeg Manitoba

Hi Lauren:

Just thought I'd drop you a note to bring to your awareness an interesting issue/debate that is currently raging in Manitoba, Minnesota, North Dakota and other parts of the U.S.

The controversy I'm referring to is the "State of the Red River" (and other bodies of water in Manitoba eg. Lake Winnipeg). The Red River (just north of Selkirk) is being netted at the moment by an aboriginal fishermen. There were two articles in the Free Press recently about the situation: One from the perspective of the nets (Which have been strung in a staggered fashion right across the river) perhaps doing harm to the fishery especially to the trophy class fish that many people come to fish from all over the world. The other was about the aboriginal who is doing the netting.

Let it be simply put, the netting issue has become very contentious. There are three different web sites/bulletin boards (one Canadian and two American) that are witness to how heated the argument has become about this issue. Have a look at the following sites to see how much of a problem this issue really is to a lot of people:

http://members3.boardhost.com/fishmanitoba/

(Canadian -Manitoban/Provincial in nature)

http://fishingminnesota.com/cgi-bin/forums/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Red+River,+Otter+Tail,+|AMP|+Bois+de+Sioux&number=16&DaysPrune=60&LastLogin=

(Minnesotan based -- but based on the Red river to the south)

http://www.walleyecentral.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&forum=canada&om=3958&omm=28&viewmode=threaded

(US based Walleye Central)

Moreover there are a couple of other issues that have been either not reported upon or have been forgotten by the public: Firstly the raw sewage spill that occured last fall in the Red River and The problem with "phosphate loading" in the river and how little or nothing is being done about it on the Canadian side of the border. A large amount of work has been done on the US side to reduce phosphates being introduced into the Red but little of nothing has been done on the Canadian side.

Another part of the debate is related to recent announcement made by Manitoba's Conservation Minister, Steve Ashton regarding fines that would be levied to those who buy or sell fish illegally and for those who net or destroy nets. I am guessing that his announcement is somewhat related to the netting controversy on Lake of the Prairies and Dauphin Lake last year as well as that which is occuring on the Red at the moment. Many of the nets that have been placed out on the Red have been poorly marked. On Lake of the Prairies some nets were even burned last year. The problem, however, is that the issue is far more complex then just increasing fines already in place... There aren't enough Conservation officers to give out the fines/or enforce the new rules in the first place! Just as an aside Lake Winnipeg the 13th biggest freshwater lake in the world has only one resource manager while Lake Erie the 12th biggest has around a dozen!

Looking at the issue/debate as "NEWS", I'd suggest that it could be dissected into a variety of segments (I'm not presuming I know your business but consider the following):

1) Firstly there is a National issue from the perspective of aboriginal rights of one man to net for subsistence on a river that has major economic and touristic value for many more Manitobans. This one needs to be dissected with a view to what has happened recently in Manitoba in this respect. eg. Lake of the Prairies and Lake Dauphin were netted heavily last winter resulting in net burnings and lots of tension. Inky mark has been quoted in the House of Commons as saying this was a situation that could become another Burnt Church N.B.. if something wasn't done to remedy the situation. I for example have my guiding business on the Red and if the present controversy continues I'm afraid many people aren't going to want to fish the Red - because the fish won't be there!

2) The issue is also international in so far as it involves a river that flows from the US to Canada and fish do move south from Canada to the US. Many American anglers/guides to the south are very much concerned that Manitoba isn't holding up it's end of the bargain when it comes to looking after the resource. There are a lot of tourism operators in the US who depend upon a healthy movement of fish to the south --- this won't occur if already mentioned difficulties continue.

3) Then of course there are the issues of pollution and harm to the environment that is at once national and international --- Winnipeg dumps raw sewage into the river everytime the storm sewers overload with a heavy rain, never mind the spill of last Fall!. In addition to the latter, don't forget to add in the controversy of the further development of the Garrison diversion and the planned bleeding off of water from Devil's lake. Basically one of our greatest natural resources ---water--- is being left to fend for itself. We all know what the latter idea of natural resouce management ends up in..... disaster.

4) Then there's the crisis that the whole lack environmental stewardship has wrought upon Manitoba's wonderful fisheries.... Don Lamont has written about it recenly in his column in the Free Press, basically there is reduction in monies, enforcement and overall planning with regards to our resources. If we're not careful we may have a situation where rivers will not have fish or people won't be there to patrol/enforce laws in place. Take a look at what a few tough environmental decisions have meant for the salmon fishery in BC. The province's salmon resources have bounced back quite nicely and to everyone's benefit.

5) And finally I'll bet there could even be a human angle of looking at a person like Stu McKay of "Cats On The Red" (Lockport) perhaps one of Manitoba's most recognized outfitters who makes a living on the Red River and its "fish" resources .... He's got plenty to say about the issue and is in the process of planning a co-management team/advisory board to make recommendations/decisions on what should be looked at to keep the Red a vibrant and healthy legacy to Manitobans who will follow ...... I'd also like to hear what Conservation Manitoba has to say about the situation (although they really can't say much for fear of political reprisal).

Involved; Yes, but I feel not enough is being said or reported to the public, or what is being said by officials is being directed at people(the general public) who really don't know what is going on. News worthy stuff; You bet. The sad part about all of this is that it might be a situation where we might be saying after the fact, "I told you so....!"

Thanks very much for your time. I hope to hear from you about anything you might be able to bring to the public regarding this issue. There are certainly a lot of people interested in what a bit of "light" might bring to this situation.

Sincerely,

Dan Kiazyk

[This message has been edited by dkiazyk (edited 02-17-2003).]

[Scoot]

Dan,

Well written- nice job! I hope you can get some exposure to the issue. As Ed mentioned, this may be exactly what the netter in the Herald may be actually shooting for, but I hope for a solution that is best for the fishery and the folks who make an honest living from it (e.g. Stu). Keep stirring the pot, man. I hope it does some good.
Scoot

[Guest]

Uf-Da...What he said Eh!

Wow, that guy can string some purdy word together Eh!

Well said and done Dan, Very Well Done!

Ata Boy!

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 02-17-2003).]

[Guest]

Anything new after yesterdays meetings in Winnipeg?