OutdoorMN News - DNR invites conversation about deer at area open houses

[Rick]

Public can meet local wildlife staff and learn about proposed season changes

Ever wonder how the DNR sets deer hunting regulations? Or how you can provide input on deer management in your area? Local wildlife managers across the state are inviting the public to come to open-house meetings to ask their deer questions and learn about the state’s most popular mammal. 

These local, open-house-style meetings are a way to encourage discussions about deer and deer management, enhance local relationships and foster two-way communication between the DNR and the public. The DNR began the meetings last year with the release of its statewide deer management plan.

“We’re excited to hold these open houses and encourage conversations and shared learning between our local area wildlife staff and the communities they serve,” said Leslie McInenly, the DNR’s wildlife populations and regulations manager, who coordinated the state’s deer management plan. “We had great discussions during our area events last year and want to build on that foundation.” The DNR encourages anyone interested in our wildlife management to attend.

Each area DNR office has dedicated time during the weeks of March 18 and March 25 for these conversations. Specific time and location details are available on the deer plan webpage at mndnr.gov/deerplan.

In addition to discussing general concerns about deer, individuals can ask DNR staff about last year’s harvest data, share observations, discuss potential season changes and get a preview of the updated draft Chronic Wasting Disease Response Plan that will be formally released in April. Season changes include a proposed statewide youth deer hunting season.

The meetings do not include formal presentations; people can arrive any time during the scheduled meeting times.

“Our deer management plan emphasizes the importance of providing input opportunities for the public,” said Barbara Keller, the DNR’s big game program leader. “These conversations are key to providing additional insight to the issues that are important to everyone with an interest in deer.”

The DNR will provide further online feedback opportunities for the public, with surveys that will cover chronic wasting disease management alternatives, perception of local deer populations, and potential hunting season changes for deer and other species. The survey addressing CWD will be available online at mndnr.gov/deerplan in late March. Online feedback opportunities concerning deer perceptions and season changes will be available in early April.

The DNR encourages people who can’t attend a scheduled meeting, but who have questions about deer management, to contact a local wildlife manager. A list of area wildlife offices is available online at mndnr.gov/areas/wildlife.

More about the Minnesota deer management plan
The DNR released the Minnesota White-Tailed Deer Management Plan in July 2018, setting new goals and priorities, increasing formal opportunities for citizens to influence deer decisions, and aiming for a disease-free deer population. The plan was a result of two years of planning that involved statewide meetings and hundreds of in-depth conversations with citizens and interest groups. The full plan is available on the DNR website at mndnr.gov/deerplan.

Discuss below - to view set the hook here.

[delcecchi]

Go tell them to shut down deer farms and prevent the spread of CWD.  This is far more urgent that any APR or QDM stuff.

[Bigfatbert]

Useless waste of time ! They don’t listen   , they say they do , but nope they don’t ! I have all the proof I need to back my statement here .. 

 

And Delcecchi post above is true and needs to be done .. soooo sorry Delcecchi , deaf ears , blind eyes prevail.

 

just curious as to your thoughts with this subject here Mr Rick , as your the bearer of this news  to this forum ....  are you a believer that the public’s input really matters ,and can be what constitutes real changes when it comes to our states deer management policies ? 

[Paradice]

Deer farms are already toast.  There's no stopping it now.  Problem is, after deer farms are written out of existence, CWD is still going to roar across the landscape, and there will need to be a new group to hate.  That next group?  

 

Private land owners.  Public land hunters will be rooting for our heads to come off next.  

[Getanet]

1 hour ago, Paradice said:

Deer farms are already toast.  There's no stopping it now.  Problem is, after deer farms are written out of existence, CWD is still going to roar across the landscape, and there will need to be a new group to hate.  That next group?   

 

Private land owners.  Public land hunters will be rooting for our heads to come off next.  

 

That's quite the stretch. Why do you think public land hunters would have any reason to blame private land owners for the spread of CWD?  And even if we play along with this scenario, what do you think public land hunters would be able to do about it anyway? 

[Paradice]

14 hours ago, Getanet said:

 

That's quite the stretch. Why do you think public land hunters would have any reason to blame private land owners for the spread of CWD?  And even if we play along with this scenario, what do you think public land hunters would be able to do about it anyway? 

The evolution of the CWD dilemma has been an orchestrated civil war within the deer community.  Every deer related group has been at odds with one another, and one by one they have been falling.  Every deer org out there is a laughing stock among the deer community.  

 

Take a look at the long list of those who have already been made villains:  Urine producers, western state hunters, deer farmers, local governments, and APR supporters.  All you have to do is watch the words the DNR is using, and you'll find the next minority to be squashed.  

 

They've been moaning recently about private landowners not cooperating.  That is not simple chatter intended for filling space.  A narrative is being built to move on private property rights against those who don't genuflect at the altar of the cull.  You think public land hunters don't have an all out disdain for rich private land guys with food plots and apple trees?  Guys better wake up before they find themselves the next enemy #1 in the DNR's crosshairs.    

 

Frankly it's already over.  The cull has been validated by everyone.  They can now steamroll anyone who tries to stand up for themselves.  We were so eager to back the DNR as they were trampling others, but when it gets to be our turn, we'll be hypocrites for standing up for ourselves.  

[Getanet]

Paradice, are you a deer farmer?

 

IMO the civil war you speak of has been orchestrated by a few "hunting" groups, not the DNR.  You talk about them being at odds with one another, so I'm assuming you're referring in large part to their social media platforms.  If you pull the curtain back you'll notice that Brooks Johnson - a deer farmer - is president of Minnesota Bowhunters Inc and started the MN Deer Density Initiative (which should be renamed at this point to the Minnesota Deer Farmers Initiative). Anytime Brooks comes up with some new theory, you'll see nearly identical information posted to the MN Bowhunters Facebook Page, the MDDI page, and sometimes the MN Whitetail Alliance page - and almost all of it is in support of deer farmers in one way or another. They've been very good at making it appear there are more groups against the DNRs plans, when in reality it's a small group who have been able to amplify their message by having multiple "groups" share it as basically their own idea.  Franky, I'm surprised more members of MN Bowhunters Inc haven't complained, since I doubt too many support the deer farming industry and they're the only real organization that has to pay dues - not just a Facebook group.

 

If you feel you're some rich private land owner that everyone hates, nobody can stop you from feeling like a victim. But I doubt we'll ever get to a point where private land owners will be forced to allow Joe Public onto their land.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wanderer]

12 hours ago, Paradice said:

   Frankly it's already over.  The cull has been validated by everyone.  They can now steamroll anyone who tries to stand up for themselves.  We were so eager to back the DNR as they were trampling others, but when it gets to be our turn, we'll be hypocrites for standing up for ourselves.  

 

@Getanet, I’m guessing landowner that has groomed his property for deer management.  Which is all well and good! I’d love to be in the same position.

 

The rub I see in Paradice’s contention that private landowners are/will be villianized for not allowing culling on their property is the fact that “Standing up for themselves” means everyone else in the infected area can go pound sand.  You’re not taking MY deer is what is really being said.

 

Just a reminder: This is a public issue with a public resource.  Unless one purchased and raised deer to stock one’s fenced in area, private parties do not own the deer exclusively.

 

Sometimes reality bites and we all suffer.  When that happens, things get turned around quicker if we all contribute to the solution.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Wanderer

[delcecchi]

If we look at Dane county wisconsin, it is easy to see the results of selfish private landowners and leasees when CWD gets loose in the wild, which it does due to the importation of infected animals by landowners "improving the herd" and by deer farmers.

 

Paradice, do you really want land where half, as in 50 percent, of the deer population have CWD?    That's the situation in some areas in Wisconsin now or very soon.

 

As for the deer farmers and the trophy "hunters" and high fencers..  They caused the problem and I don't feel sorry for them at all.   Are you gonna be part of the solution?  Or are you going to be an impediment?  

[creepworm]

1 hour ago, delcecchi said:

If we look at Dane county wisconsin, it is easy to see the results of selfish private landowners and leasees when CWD gets loose in the wild, which it does due to the importation of infected animals by landowners "improving the herd" and by deer farmers.

 

Paradice, do you really want land where half, as in 50 percent, of the deer population have CWD?    That's the situation in some areas in Wisconsin now or very soon.

 

As for the deer farmers and the trophy "hunters" and high fencers..  They caused the problem and I don't feel sorry for them at all.   Are you gonna be part of the solution?  Or are you going to be an impediment?  

 

I am not a land owner. However, if I was and the DNR wanted to decimate the deer population on my ground in the name of CWD control, I would let them know in no uncertain terms that will not be happening.

[Getanet]

For now we're all fortunate that CWD hasn't crossed over to effecting humans. From what I've read, most scientists think that's a real possibility. If it does, all heck's going to break loose and then we might see the type of civil war Paradice speaks of between hunters with differences on what to do about CWD.

 

There have been no known cases where I hunt. Even without a case of CWD impacting humans, if the prevalence rate was high (let's save over 25% for arguments sake) in my area I would have to give some real consideration to whether I wanted to continue to hunt and eat venison.

 

 

[eyeguy 54]

I have hunted 603, 3 years now.  We bone the meat out there with a fillet knife and bring the meat home. I eat it before the results get to me but the rest of the party waits. I guess I am not worried as long as I dont eat organs or brains.  Only thing that gets a saw is the pelvic bone and cutting hindquarters off.  So far the 9 deer have come back negative. If negative I will have extra meat for my freezer. Personally, I dont think it can be stopped. Slowed down maybe but not stopped. I wont stop eating V. 

[Getanet]

Eyeguy, if one of yours came back positive, would you still eat that venison or toss it?  Hopefully it's a decision you never have to make, just curious is all.

[eyeguy 54]

I would eat it.

[delcecchi]

8 hours ago, eyeguy 54 said:

I would eat it.

I'm old enough that I would probably be dead before the prions got me, but I don't think I trust the research enough to chow down known CWD infected meat.  

 

In the case of mad cow/ vCJD, looks like somewhere more than 10 years from the time it got into the food supply and the time it showed up in people.   

[smurfy]

10 hours ago, Getanet said:

Eyeguy, if one of yours came back positive, would you still eat that venison or toss it?  Hopefully it's a decision you never have to make, just curious is all.

I would too!!!!!!!!!!

[eyeguy 54]

,brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, tonsils, lymph nodes.    never have fried them up

[ANYFISH2]

21 hours ago, delcecchi said:

I'm old enough that I would probably be dead before the prions got me, but I don't think I trust the research enough to chow down known CWD infected meat.  

 

In the case of mad cow/ vCJD, looks like somewhere more than 10 years from the time it got into the food supply and the time it showed up in people.   

I dont think I could knowingly, put it on my table to feed my family.  

 

From my reading, by no means makes me an expert on anything, Mad cow and CJD were contracted(in humans) by eating brain and bone meal of infected animals in every case I know of.  It was also the primary way of spreading the diseases to other animals.

 

Deer farms appear to be the origin of the disease in MN.  They may also be our best way of finding a remedy for this at the same time.

 

It would be nice to know if or how many deer farms are using bone meal or meat by product to supplement protein in thier operations?  Brooks Johnson, Not sure of his exact handle, posts here so he could help some I am sure.  Although we lean a bit anti-deer farm here it seems, maybe he wont.  

 

CWD is an issue we will deal with going forward,  I am still on the fence on the best way to deal with it.  Maybe the fact our deer population is typically young will help in slower spread and contraction.

[eyeguy 54]

I would let them decide if they wanted to eat it. Would not give it to others in any form. More for me.

[smurfy]

heck, I take the neck clean that bad boy up real good and bake it till the meat falls off the bone.  its first nite of deer camp supper.

[Paradice]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:43 AM, Getanet said:

Paradice, are you a deer farmer?

 

IMO the civil war you speak of has been orchestrated by a few "hunting" groups, not the DNR.  You talk about them being at odds with one another, so I'm assuming you're referring in large part to their social media platforms.  If you pull the curtain back you'll notice that Brooks Johnson - a deer farmer - is president of Minnesota Bowhunters Inc and started the MN Deer Density Initiative (which should be renamed at this point to the Minnesota Deer Farmers Initiative). Anytime Brooks comes up with some new theory, you'll see nearly identical information posted to the MN Bowhunters Facebook Page, the MDDI page, and sometimes the MN Whitetail Alliance page - and almost all of it is in support of deer farmers in one way or another. They've been very good at making it appear there are more groups against the DNRs plans, when in reality it's a small group who have been able to amplify their message by having multiple "groups" share it as basically their own idea.  Franky, I'm surprised more members of MN Bowhunters Inc haven't complained, since I doubt too many support the deer farming industry and they're the only real organization that has to pay dues - not just a Facebook group.

 

If you feel you're some rich private land owner that everyone hates, nobody can stop you from feeling like a victim. But I doubt we'll ever get to a point where private land owners will be forced to allow Joe Public onto their land.

 

 

 

 

 

MDDI was about wild deer and deer hunting, and has never been about deer farming.  MDDI went all the way back to 2013 when the DNR was still making zones intensive and managed and guys weren't seeing any deer.  Slowly, concerned hunters like myself, Brooks, and many other average joes started going to listening sessions and engaging with the DNR.  At every turn, we were met with blown smoke, inconsistent data, and eventually science.  

 

When MDDI was formed, none of the founding guys were deer farmers, or even cared about deer farming.  We wanted the DNR to shoot straight about these zone classifications and their sketchy population estimates and constantly changing models.  It was MDDI that got the audit proposed and through the legislature.  It wasn't until the end that the sell out losers at MDHA and the rest of the deer orgs jumped on and endorsed the idea.  

 

Go back six years, and you'll find this is one prolonged campaign to get rid of all the deer.  It should be no suprise any longer that the DNR regularly studies how to manipulate hunters into shooting deer with things like, "There's one million deer in MN."  "The reason you're not seeing deer is wind, rain, and corn."  "You're in a cold spot in a hot zone."  

 

And your use of quotes around "hunting" groups is quite misplaced.  MDDI and MN Bowhunters are the only actual member driven deer groups in the state.  Ask the rank and file past QDMA and MDHA guys what their masters told them when they asked leadership to join the push to hold the DNR accountable.  MDHA especially is a front group for the DNR.  Where do you think their last two executive directors came from?  

[Paradice]

On 3/14/2019 at 2:03 PM, delcecchi said:

If we look at Dane county wisconsin, it is easy to see the results of selfish private landowners and leasees when CWD gets loose in the wild, which it does due to the importation of infected animals by landowners "improving the herd" and by deer farmers.

 

Paradice, do you really want land where half, as in 50 percent, of the deer population have CWD?    That's the situation in some areas in Wisconsin now or very soon.

 

As for the deer farmers and the trophy "hunters" and high fencers..  They caused the problem and I don't feel sorry for them at all.   Are you gonna be part of the solution?  Or are you going to be an impediment?  

What solution exists to be part of?  Culling has worked zero times.  

 

If the DNR was trying to win this, why are they and most other state game agencies actively working to discredit the guy at LSU trying to find a cure?  CWD has never been a disease.  It has been the cure all along.  The disease is the whitetail deer and CWD is working exactly as planned.  It's kicked the door wide open in SE MN, and they finally have the mandate they've been wanting for 15 years, to go down there and snuff out that herd.   

[Paradice]

On 3/14/2019 at 5:12 PM, Getanet said:

For now we're all fortunate that CWD hasn't crossed over to effecting humans. From what I've read, most scientists think that's a real possibility. If it does, all heck's going to break loose and then we might see the type of civil war Paradice speaks of between hunters with differences on what to do about CWD.

 

There have been no known cases where I hunt. Even without a case of CWD impacting humans, if the prevalence rate was high (let's save over 25% for arguments sake) in my area I would have to give some real consideration to whether I wanted to continue to hunt and eat venison.

 

 

Not to go on a posting rampage, but trying to get caught up here.  

 

If you're worried about CWD crossing the species barrier, it's already over dawg.  The same guys pumping the stories of zombie deer and falsifying research on the macaque monkeys are also saying the prions are being taken up by all kinds of plants already.  Well, that means all the soybeans, corn, and hay from CWD country that is fed to livestock has put those prions on a superhighway into the food supply of the world.  Think about that when you see a hamburger, a piece of cheese, or anything made with flour.  

[delcecchi]

38 minutes ago, Paradice said:

What solution exists to be part of?  Culling has worked zero times.  

 

If the DNR was trying to win this, why are they and most other state game agencies actively working to discredit the guy at LSU trying to find a cure?  CWD has never been a disease.  It has been the cure all along.  The disease is the whitetail deer and CWD is working exactly as planned.  It's kicked the door wide open in SE MN, and they finally have the mandate they've been wanting for 15 years, to go down there and snuff out that herd.   

Culling worked in Pine Island, from all the evidence.   CWD is a communicable disease, introduced to MN and Wisconsin by deer and elk farms.   You really need to get your paranoia and belief in conspiracies under control.   

 

CWD  is one of a family of diseases.  This version happens to affect deer and elk and will spread in high density populations.     we don't yet know if it can, like mad cow, cross over and affect humans.    

 

The theory of the LSU guy that it is some sort of bacteria that isn't killed by cooking sounds far fetched to me, but should be fairly easily testable, so we should find out soon.    

 

Interestingly, the disease associated with mad cow, CJD, also occurs "spontaneously" in people.  About one per million people will get it for no known reason, and it has been that way for a long time.   The mad cow type, vCJD, has so far killed a couple hundred people in the UK.   

 

 

[Paradice]

3 hours ago, delcecchi said:

Culling worked in Pine Island, from all the evidence.   CWD is a communicable disease, introduced to MN and Wisconsin by deer and elk farms.   You really need to get your paranoia and belief in conspiracies under control.   

 

CWD  is one of a family of diseases.  This version happens to affect deer and elk and will spread in high density populations.     we don't yet know if it can, like mad cow, cross over and affect humans.    

 

The theory of the LSU guy that it is some sort of bacteria that isn't killed by cooking sounds far fetched to me, but should be fairly easily testable, so we should find out soon.    

 

Interestingly, the disease associated with mad cow, CJD, also occurs "spontaneously" in people.  About one per million people will get it for no known reason, and it has been that way for a long time.   The mad cow type, vCJD, has so far killed a couple hundred people in the UK.   

 

 

Are you sure it worked in Pine Island?  Not finding CWD is akin to saying smoking doesn't cause lung cancer simply because we haven't found a link.  Ground zero in SE MN is 54 miles from Pine Island.  

 

Here you are discrediting the LSU guy.  Did you grant yourself an honorary PhD in epidemiology?  

 

Wake up.  All you guys railing against deer farms probably also railed against every other fight the DNR started among us.  As a group, we are the dumbest when it comes to defending our interests.  We trip over one another to codemn one another.  You will become the next jerk that needs to be dealth with.  Look at all that have fallen already.  

 

Scopes on muzzelloaders

Compound bows

Crossbows

Recreational feeders

Deer farms

Gun hunting the rut

Trophy guys

Meat guys

3B guys

 

I promise you, every one of you guys has been on the receiving end of this at some point already, and you will be again.  You think the DNR is just going to give up because private land owners won't let them in?  By the time your number is up, you will have validated their agenda to walk all over your property rights and kill your deer.  

 

Nobody ever answers this question:  When the deer farms are gone, what next?  I'll tell you what's next.  Pro-culling neighbor vs anti-culling neighbor.  Guys with food plots vs guys without food plots.  Those that allow public hunting on their land vs those that don't.  

[delcecchi]

7 hours ago, Paradice said:

kill your deer.  

Sorry, they aren't your deer just because they are on your land.     You  sound like those guys from Dane county back a decade or so.   

 

At the moment we have one scientist saying CWD is caused by some strange bacteria that can withstand high temperatures and on the other side we have a whole lot of scientists saying it is a prion.

 

How about we take him over in wisconsin, trap a bunch of deer in one of the real hotspots, and let him shoot them full of the treatment of his choice.     A year or two should tell if he knows what he is talking about.   Randomly divide the group in half, and separate them.      

 

Remember it was a doctor and scientist that wrote the paper claiming MMR vaccine caused autism....And a nobel prize winning scientist said vitamin C cures the common cold and cancer too.  Never worked for me (on the common cold)

[Getanet]

On 3/17/2019 at 8:56 AM, Paradice said:

 

 

When MDDI was formed, none of the founding guys were deer farmers, or even cared about deer farming.  We wanted the DNR to shoot straight about these zone classifications and their sketchy population estimates and constantly changing models.  It was MDDI that got the audit proposed and through the legislature.  It wasn't until the end that the sell out losers at MDHA and the rest of the deer orgs jumped on and endorsed the idea.   

 

 

How many are deer farmers now? Brooks certainly is. A few other of the most prominent posters there are. Can't even make it up that since your response the MDDI's Facebook page has posted a link to Brook's MN Bowhunters blog  - entirely about how proposed CDW legislation is unfair to deer farmers.  Again, it's the Minnesota Deer Farmers Initiative at this point.

 

 

[delcecchi]

5 hours ago, Getanet said:

 

How many are deer farmers now? Brooks certainly is. A few other of the most prominent posters there are. Can't even make it up that since your response the MDDI's Facebook page has posted a link to Brook's MN Bowhunters blog  - entirely about how proposed CDW legislation is unfair to deer farmers.  Again, it's the Minnesota Deer Farmers Initiative at this point.

 

 

Must be more money in that deer farming stuff than a guy would think...

I guess it is like the special deal in iowa where the farmers got to dump their lagoons on the frozen ground for the past few months.    Who cares what happens to the rivers....  

https://kttc.com/news/top-stories/2019/03/18/iowa-looking-at-a-big-mess-after-dnr-issues-110-emergency-exemptions/

Watch out where the farmers go.  don't you eat that brown snow... apologies to frank zappa

[Paradice]

We'll never reach an understanding.  This thing is already out of the bottle.  The cull has been validated and will never stop.  If CWD is ever driven down to an undetectable level, do you really think the state will allow your perception of a healthy-sized herd to ever build up again?  

 

It's over guys.

 

 

[creepworm]

Can someone explain the reasoning behind population reduction as a means of ridding ourselves of CWD?

 

The DNR (and most other researchers) believe that the prions can live in the soil for an undetermined amount of time, but all agree a very long time. Also, the DNR ( and most other researchers) believe CWD is spread through the sharing of bodily fluids (saliva, urine, etc.). 

 

So, how do we keep deer away from a place an infected deer has been for 10, 15, 25+ years. As that would be the only way to eradicate the disease, is to keep all deer away from anywhere an infected deer might have been since the point it became infected. The only way to do that, would be to completely eradicate deer (seriously 0 deer) for the undetermined amount of time that these prions can still infect other deer (10,15, 25+ years).  

Edited March 19, 2019 by creepworm