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Disbelief - mille lacs walleyes - harvest decisions

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Agronomist_at_IA
12 hours ago, ozzie said:

 

yeah lets get those prime breeders out of the lake!!!  🙄  some of the stuff said on the Mille Lacs situation is just unbelievable...

 

 

LMAO 17-22 slots are because of those females being the prime breeding stock.....22-27in fish are not the prime......sure they can still reproduce, but not has effecently for the resource vs the 17-22in fish.

 

12 hours ago, ozzie said:

 

yeah lets get those prime breeders out of the lake!!!  🙄  some of the stuff said on the Mille Lacs situation is just unbelievable...

 

 

LMAO 17-22 slots are because of those females being the prime breeding stock.....22-27in fish are not the prime......sure they can still reproduce, but not has effecently for the resource vs the 17-22in fish.

 

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Agronomist_at_IA
11 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Totally true.  The younger generation is far more interested in protecting the resource and the older generation is far more interested in meat hunting.  Its definitely a generational gap thing.

 

I would disagree with this  statement. 

 

Obviously the older generation  protected and safeguarded the resources otherwise they wouldn't be here. In fact the older generation created many of the resources we have. When you have a renewable resource, a community should take full advantage and use the resouce to the FULL advantage possible. With fish that means harvesting them.

 

Now, I'm not talking rape and pillage the resouce. I'm talking responsible harvest. 

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DonkeyHodey

"Obviously the older generation protected and safeguarded the resources..."

This isn't exactly obvious. 

Historically, "protected and safeguarded" means exploiting the resource to the point of elimination, crying to the state/DNR/government to externally replenish it and then complaining/crying more when it isn't done the way you'd like? (or isn't "as good" as it used to be to allow more exploitation)  Oh, and it's also helpful to find a scapegoat to deflect/blame as well--carp, "invasives", other races or "generations", etc...   It would seem that's how the Walleye has been protected and I don't think it's anything to brag about.

"...otherwise they wouldn't be here"

Just because a species can hang on despite exhaustive and devastating pressure does not mean the exploiters can claim any conservational or moral superiority...  

 

This isn't anything unique though:  Lake trout in the great lakes, cod in the North Atlantic, trout in pretty much every stream would also be nodding in agreement... (as would numerous other non-fish natural resources--turkeys (they were extinct in MN until reintroduction in the latter 1900's...), swans (also locally extinct--reintroduced), canadian geese (nearly completely extinct), prairie chickens, bison, etc...)  I can give numerous other examples if you'd like, but I'd rather go passenger pigeon watching...

(...For the record, I don't think the "younger generation" is any less greedy/selfish--But they sure think they're different/better...)

 

Agronomist:  You're sorta talking out of both sides of your mouth--"FULL advantage possible" and "responsible harvest"?  "Full advantage" is never responsible...  But maybe this time will be different, right?...

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ozzie

ok maybe not per say the "prime breeder" but if your lake is not possessing a number of 18"-22" fish to support your lake system, then I would think, you need a good population of 22"-26" fish to lay eggs, even though the survival rate is lower, and the bigger eyes will at times prey on young walleye if there is a low forage base.  If you have been to a stripping station it always seems the females they get eggs from are mostly over 22".  Maybe they ripen faster and that is the reason, I don't know, but that has been my observation, and I would think if the 18-22" eyes produce "Better" eggs then they would want to use them more.  The main point, I guess I wanted to make, was that Mille Lacs is such an ecological conundrum, it appears, and then to have many different hands in the bowl making decisions on it, I often laugh at all the people that think THEY have the answers, and for the most part are pulling their opinion out of their arse!  I.E. go back to the start of this thread...opinion shot down by science and yet still believes in opinion!  Just my take...

 

*(disclaimer: means nothing as it is not backed by science and the information given was my uneducated thoughts...kinda contradicting ehh )*🤔🤣

 

Get out and enjoy what we have, while we have it, and are around to use it!  Unless you are getting into politics, or are really rich and have a lot of pull with powerful people, you ain't changing much on the big ol'pond!!  (another opinion that means nothing😉

 

I am not even sure why I open these threads and then feel the need to comment?  I guess this is what keep conversation going and a reason to come back and look at the forums...

 

Good Luck and Enjoy the season!

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Flash

Ozzie,

Well said.  This world we live on is over millions of years old.  I don't think much that I do is going to have much impact on the little blup of hopefully around 80 years I get to enjoy it.  Thus, enjoy what you have and let the rest worry about it.  Go Hunting and Fishing and enjoy it.

Flash

"Set the Hook"

 

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tfin
On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:16 AM, gimruis said:

 

Ok, so all the biologists, scientists, and compiled data is wrong and you're right.  Lets rape and pillage the lake until there's absolutely nothing left.  Great idea tfin.  In fact, maybe when the walleyes are all gone we should harvest all the muskies, smallmouth bass, and pike in the lake too.  And then blame the DNR for it.  Go fly a kite

I didn't say that all the data is wrong.  I didn't say that we should fish the lake out.  I said that the lake should be managed for food not for sport.  You're advanced degree didn't help you with reading for comprehension.  

 

If you don't think it was mismanaged let me ask you two simple questions.  First question.  Was it managed?  Second question.  Did that management keep the lake population of walleye to a satisfactory level?  I will say that people may have taken too many fish but if the DNR is going to take tax money and use it to set limits than they should be accountable for doing a good job.  People don't all know the lake.  They come from all over and if the regulations say you can take 4 fish under 17 then they probably will.  If you do this for or something similar for 5 straight years., you're probably going to end up with fewer small fish and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that why the lake got shut down?  I'm not calling for heads to role because the lake has it's many issues.  I'm just trying to keep it from happening again.

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:42 PM, gimruis said:

Totally true.  The younger generation is far more interested in protecting the resource and the older generation is far more interested in meat hunting.  Its definitely a generational gap thing.

Probably because they can hardly wipe their own butt much less clean a fish.  

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leech~~
24 minutes ago, tfin said:

 I said that the lake should be managed for food not for sport. 

 

Well it is managed for food.  Sorta?  🙄  

d39cc6-20170927-mille-lacs-survey04.jpg

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tfin

Yeah, there's nothing pretty about any of that.  The lake is what it is with the abuse it takes.  I don't blame the DNR for shutting it down, the year classes that I've seen while out on the ice have been well represented and It seems to be stronger than I've seen since 2007.   I want to see it opened back up but with different long term management.  Whether it's 1 over and 1 under limits or changing the size of harvest fish as long as they don't repeat the same long term program that got us here.  I'd be happy with 1 over 22 in the summer and 1 under 18 over 15 in the winter if that would keep the lake in good health.

 

I suppose there are differing combinations of three types of fisher people out there.  Those that want the challenge, those that want the fight, and those that want the food.  I couldn't care less about the fight.  I like the challenge of finding the fish and to be able to eat my catch once in a while.  If that means I have to freeze a fish until I catch enough to feed the family then so be it.

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Agronomist_at_IA
On October 25, 2018 at 9:20 AM, DonkeyHodey said:

"Obviously the older generation protected and safeguarded the resources..."

This isn't exactly obvious. 

Historically, "protected and safeguarded" means exploiting the resource to the point of elimination, crying to the state/DNR/government to externally replenish it and then complaining/crying more when it isn't done the way you'd like? (or isn't "as good" as it used to be to allow more exploitation)  Oh, and it's also helpful to find a scapegoat to deflect/blame as well--carp, "invasives", other races or "generations", etc...   It would seem that's how the Walleye has been protected and I don't think it's anything to brag about.

"...otherwise they wouldn't be here"

Just because a species can hang on despite exhaustive and devastating pressure does not mean the exploiters can claim any conservational or moral superiority...  

 

This isn't anything unique though:  Lake trout in the great lakes, cod in the North Atlantic, trout in pretty much every stream would also be nodding in agreement... (as would numerous other non-fish natural resources--turkeys (they were extinct in MN until reintroduction in the latter 1900's...), swans (also locally extinct--reintroduced), canadian geese (nearly completely extinct), prairie chickens, bison, etc...)  I can give numerous other examples if you'd like, but I'd rather go passenger pigeon watching...

(...For the record, I don't think the "younger generation" is any less greedy/selfish--But they sure think they're different/better...)

 

Agronomist:  You're sorta talking out of both sides of your mouth--"FULL advantage possible" and "responsible harvest"?  "Full advantage" is never responsible...  But maybe this time will be different, right?...

 

 

Wow people read and comprehend only what they want.

 

Using a resouce to its full advantage possible would be harvesting fish responsible, if you can understand something so simple you need someone to help you. 

 

Not ot giving the older generation credit for protecting and managing our resources is just ignorant. However, with your train of thought they must have wiped out the dinosaurs or are somehow responsible.

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gimruis

This is the land of 10,000 lakes.  If you don't like the regs, go somewhere else.  Pretty obvious on this thread who's in it to harvest fish () and who's out there just enjoying it.  Its still ranked #5 in the country for bass and #4 in the country for muskies.

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gimruis
On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:11 PM, Agronomist_at_IA said:

Using a resouce to its full advantage possible would be harvesting fish responsible, if you can understand something so simple you need someone to help you. 

 

Yes, I agree.  Sustainable harvest.  And clearly this population of walleyes cannot sustain any harvest, which obviously angers a lot of anglers and a lot of posters on this thread.  Frankly I don't think its ever going to return to the way it used to be either.  The lake has changed too much.  Which is partially why its also become a smallmouth factory.

 

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leech~~
1 hour ago, gimruis said:

 

 Which is partially why its also become a smallmouth factory.

 

 

You might be right. They don't Net around rock piles much because it snags nets, so the Smallmouth may be safe! 😉

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Flash

Even the Natives don't eat Small Mouth Bass.

"Set the Hook"

Flash

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gimruis

I guess the new regs this winter allow the beer drinkers to keep one fish between 21-23 inches starting Dec 1.  🍺

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PRO-V
1 hour ago, gimruis said:

I guess the new regs this winter allow the beer drinkers to keep one fish between 21-23 inches starting Dec 1.  🍺

What's it got to do with beer drinking?🤔

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Agronomist_at_IA
On October 29, 2018 at 8:41 AM, gimruis said:

 

Yes, I agree.  Sustainable harvest.  And clearly this population of walleyes cannot sustain any harvest, which obviously angers a lot of anglers and a lot of posters on this thread.  Frankly I don't think its ever going to return to the way it used to be either.  The lake has changed too much.  Which is partially why its also become a smallmouth factory.

 

 

Even if the lake is changing it should be able to sustain a very health and harvestable population of walleye. While that number may be lower then in the past it still should produce walleye. 

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Esox62

Unfortunately , the stories of "filling buckets, going home then going back and filling another" are still common topic with the old timers around me. Ah the good ol days they say. To say that generation was into conservation or thought about the future of the sport is a stretch of epic proportions. Not saying everyone was. But, to not see the difference in the generations seems ignorant. I'm 50 and I can't remember anyone younger than me talking about filling buckets going home then going out and doing it again. This was an enormous mistake the older generation made. 

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Borch

Talk to your local game warden.  It's still prevalent and it's not just the old guys.

 

What's more common is hitting a hot bite and bringing a limit home everyday until the bite dies.  You can try to blame whoever you want.  But the problem is more widespread than you're stating.

But I do agree that it's less of an issue with younger fisherman.  Part of that is education and part is so few are fishing anymore.

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Agronomist_at_IA
14 hours ago, Esox62 said:

Unfortunately , the stories of "filling buckets, going home then going back and filling another" are still common topic with the old timers around me. Ah the good ol days they say. To say that generation was into conservation or thought about the future of the sport is a stretch of epic proportions. Not saying everyone was. But, to not see the difference in the generations seems ignorant. I'm 50 and I can't remember anyone younger than me talking about filling buckets going home then going out and doing it again. This was an enormous mistake the older generation made. 

 

LMFAO...........No body younger does it........you must not have the minority problems like we do down here.......they fish by the code....pirate code.....take everything and throw nothing back. Size doesn't mater....fish type doesn't matter....it all gets cooked. 

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