Deer farms need to be banned

[delcecchi]

We have now at least three examples of deer/elk farms spreading CWD into areas of Minnesota.   There is no way to test a living animal for CWD, yet the farms keep bringing in breeding stock for the "sportsmen" to shoot, or to be released to "improve the genetics" so there will be bigger antlers on the bucks.  

 

This needs to be stopped.   The importation of live deer or elk into Minnesota needs to be shut down, along with the deer/elk farms. 

 

Yeah I know.   Great fences etc.    I am not buying it.

[ZachD]

Released to improve genetics? I am pretty sure that illegal isn't it?

[Holy carp]

If it's not illegal it darn well should be!!

[mulefarm]

10 hours ago, delcecchi said:

We have now at least three examples of deer/elk farms spreading CWD into areas of Minnesota.   There is no way to test a living animal for CWD, yet the farms keep bringing in breeding stock for the "sportsmen" to shoot, or to be released to "improve the genetics" so there will be bigger antlers on the bucks.  

 

This needs to be stopped.   The importation of live deer or elk into Minnesota needs to be shut down, along with the deer/elk farms. 

 

Yeah I know.   Great fences etc.    I am not buying it.

Are you sure about this? Any facts or related information.

[delcecchi]

12 hours ago, mulefarm said:

Are you sure about this? Any facts or related information.

 

Sure about what?  

[ZachD]

 or to be released to "improve the genetics"

 

 

 

I don't know why anyone raising deer would just release them into the wild they get good money for them you know.

 

 

[leech~~]

I'm like 100% sure the DNR would never allow Farm raised Deer to be released in the wild. For one thing like any farm raised game they would not know how to survive. They would last like two seconds not knowing how to get away from predators and it's really hard to find Deer feed pellets in the woods! 

Plus the whole sharing of diseases they may carry.

[delcecchi]

11 hours ago, leech~~ said:

I'm like 100% sure the DNR would never allow Farm raised Deer to be released in the wild. For one thing like any farm raised game they would not know how to survive. They would last like two seconds not knowing how to get away from predators and it's really hard to find Deer feed pellets in the woods! 

Plus the whole sharing of diseases they may carry.

 

What makes you think the DNR has anything to do with it?     I have a bunch of land and some feeders and I want bigger bucks so I can brag to by buds at the country club what a stud I am shooting a turdy point buck, what stops me from buying deer from a farm and releasing them on my land? 

 

Who are the customers for all those deer farms advertising their superior bucks? 

[leech~~]

5 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

 

What makes you think the DNR has anything to do with it?     I have a bunch of land and some feeders and I want bigger bucks so I can brag to by buds at the country club what a stud I am shooting a turdy point buck, what stops me from buying deer from a farm and releasing them on my land?

 

Who are the customers for all those deer farms advertising their superior bucks?

 

Fenced in Texas hunting ranches Del.

I'm sure with the right licensing you can buy a deer from a breeder and put it on you're high fenced in land. If you think the MN DNR is going to approve you setting farm raised deer free in this state. I would love to hear their response to you're request!

[ZachD]

4 hours ago, delcecchi said:

 

What makes you think the DNR has anything to do with it?     I have a bunch of land and some feeders and I want bigger bucks so I can brag to by buds at the country club what a stud I am shooting a turdy point buck, what stops me from buying deer from a farm and releasing them on my land? 

 

Who are the customers for all those deer farms advertising their superior bucks? 

So you are going to buy a 4-10k deer in hopes it breeds one of the does out in the wild on your property and somehow that does fawns are both males and that is going to be enough to change the gene pool?

I don't think it works that way the gene pool is so diluted that I doubt even if the buck bred a doe that it would have much effect on the herd. The reason the game farms can grow big bucks is because they can selectively cull the deer they don't want. most use artificial insemination as well.

The customers for the deer farms advertised are high fence outfitters and other high fence breeders who want to use the deer to breed.

 

If you want to brag about shooting a turdy point buck use your money wisely and just go to a outfitter and shoot the deer you want instead of buying it and releasing it hoping someday you can shoot its offspring

[delcecchi]

4 hours ago, leech~~ said:

 

Fenced in Texas hunting ranches Del.

I'm sure with the right licensing you can buy a deer from a breeder and put it on you're high fenced in land. If you think the MN DNR is going to approve you setting farm raised deer free in this state. I would love to hear their response to you're request!

 

And those rich dudes are going to ask the DNR?    I can't find information, in a quick search, that a permit would even be required.  

 

Maybe the Texas guys are shipping deer in from Minnesota, but it seems sort of unlikely.  And there seem to be an awful lot of deer farms around these days.   It would be interesting to know who is buying and who is selling that keeps them in business.

[delcecchi]

18 minutes ago, ZachD said:

So you are going to buy a 4-10k deer in hopes it breeds one of the does out in the wild on your property and somehow that does fawns are both males and that is going to be enough to change the gene pool?

I don't think it works that way the gene pool is so diluted that I doubt even if the buck bred a doe that it would have much effect on the herd. The reason the game farms can grow big bucks is because they can selectively cull the deer they don't want. most use artificial insemination as well.

The customers for the deer farms advertised are high fence outfitters and other high fence breeders who want to use the deer to breed.

 

If you want to brag about shooting a turdy point buck use your money wisely and just go to a outfitter and shoot the deer you want instead of buying it and releasing it hoping someday you can shoot its offspring

How many does will a good buck breed in a season?   And all the offspring will carry his genes, not just male offspring.  

 

As I said in the previous post, I don't get the economics of the whole deal.   It would be interesting to understand.   Do deer farms have to account for all their animals?   Do they sell the culls?   Even a mediocre buck from a good line could make an impact on some hunting club's deer. 

 

Looks like the DNR doesn't regulate deer farms.  It is the "board of animal health" 

 

Law is 35.155

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=35.155

Edited February 3, 2017 by delcecchi

[ZachD]

https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/

quote 'If you took the most prized breeder buck from his comfortable pen and turned him out among free-ranging whitetails, he would have no measurable impact on antler size in the region, even if he survived to successfully breed. The expression of that genetic potential could only go as far as local resources allowed (soil quality, habitat quality, herd demographics, hunter management choices). Eventually, his genes would be diluted and swamped by local gene flow.'

[Musky hunter 82]

I was watching a TV show on Farm raised deer and they were talking about genetics and antler size.  They determined that 75% - 80% of a deers genetics come from the doe.  If that is true and they have proven that it is in their captive herd, then the biggest influencer in improving the size of the antlers in your deer herd are from the does.  So now we just have to figure out what does fawn the biggest bucks and pass up those and only harvest the does that produce small bucks...

[ZachD]

14 hours ago, Musky hunter 82 said:

I was watching a TV show on Farm raised deer and they were talking about genetics and antler size.  They determined that 75% - 80% of a deers genetics come from the doe.  If that is true and they have proven that it is in their captive herd, then the biggest influencer in improving the size of the antlers in your deer herd are from the does.  So now we just have to figure out what does fawn the biggest bucks and pass up those and only harvest the does that produce small bucks...

Cases From the Wild
About 10 years ago, Bob Zaiglan, one of the most respected deer biologists in the business, noticed that two areas of a Texas ranch were producing bigger-antlered bucks. Based on this observation, he theorized that some of the does in these two areas had better antler-growing genes. To see if the theory had merit, he eliminated the doe harvest on these two parcels. Now, because both areas have continued to produce larger-antlered bucks than the rest of the ranch, he believes that by protecting the does he's been able to maximize the superior antler-growing genes.

When Dr. Grant Woods, another leading whitetail biologist/consultant, begins implementing a QDM plan in an area, he quickly works to get the ratio of adult does to antlered bucks under 3 to 1. Woods harvests the oldest does first because they were born before the QDM program was started. Later in the program, Woods preserves the older does because research has shown that big, healthy, dominant does have larger and stronger fawns than sub-adult does do. Though these tactics are far from conclusive, they should help you to up the odds of growing trophy deer on your spread.

[ZachD]

[delcecchi]

I looked and SE MN has about 15 to 25 deer per square mile.   So, releasing  a few good does  every year or two on your good sized chunk of private land could go a long ways, especially if coupled with food plots or feeding.   Those genes would diffuse through the population in the region.  After all, their home range is only about a square mile, according to the DNR. 

 

And does don't go traveling all over looking for love.... I bet does are a lot cheaper too. 

[ESSGuy]

I'm no expert but doesn't 50% come from mom and 50% come from dad? That's just plain common sense biology.

[delcecchi]

11 hours ago, ESSGuy said:

I'm no expert but doesn't 50% come from mom and 50% come from dad? That's just plain common sense biology.

 

It seems like that is what should happen, but "the experts" quoted above seem to think differently.   Anyway, I still haven't figured out why Minnesota has such a plethora of Deer Farms.   Do we have those "high fence" hunting operations here?   Is it a big export industry to Texas?   Asians buying antlers for Traditional Chinese Medicine?  Venny burger at whole foods?