Nets & spears

[jkrash]

http://www.timberjay.com/stories/Fond-du-Lac-plans-to-net-Vermilions-west-end-this-spring,12617

I thought maybe we would see an adjustment on the special regs with the high walleye count, but like last year this could throw a wrench into the future management plans on the lake.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Yes, it certainly may!

Cliff

[SkunkedAgain]

I'm not trying to cause a big stir, but as noted in the article I don't see 2,500lbs as a big deal. It sounds like a lot until you compare it with the 65,000lbs allowed for safe harvest to non-native anglers. I plan to harvest more than 3,500lbs of walleye myself, but based upon actual past results I will likely only pull in somewhere between 5-10lbs in 2016...

-Skunked Again

[JerkinLips]

I agree with Skunked Again; 5-10 pounds it what I'll probably end up with.  At that rate, it would take about 10,000 fisherman averaging that much to reach the 65,000lbs harvest.  I must not be as good as the average.

[jkrash]

 65,000 is easier to reach than one might think, in 02 & 03 we were very close to 100,000 pounds, well above the safe harvest level.

[SkunkedAgain]

Sounds like we all need to cut back a bit...

[jkrash]

On the contrary, I was hoping to get the 6 fish limit back and a different slot this year, we've been well under the safe harves level for a number of years, lets loosen things up a bit.

[OhioVike]

Has there been serious consideration of raising the limit and improving the slot?

[Cliff Wagenbach]

4 hours ago, OhioVike said:

Has there been serious consideration of raising the limit and improving the slot?

Yes. The limit would have probably stayed the same but the slot could possibly have been enlarged.

Cliff

[Dennis_G]

3 hours ago, Cliff Wagenbach said:

Yes. The limit would have probably stayed the same but the slot could possibly have been enlarged.  Cliff

Not sure what you mean by that Cliff.

[guideman]

It's very possible that they will adjust the slot at some time, however I wouldn't hold your breath waiting to see a 6 fish limit again.

"Ace"

"It's just fishing man"

[delcecchi]

Right now the slot is 18 to 26 protected.   Used to be 17 to 26. Maybe it could go to 19? Mille lacs showed slots not always a great idea.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

There was some talk of possibly raising the slot to as high as including one 20 inch fish.

Cliff

[delcecchi]

Like the Canadian "one over 18" " 

[gunner55]

Like when they finally opened up the slot on Winnie last season to 18"- 23". The 17- 26 was only supposed to last 10 years originally, but was more like 15. There was getting to be too many slot fish in the lake as people were having trouble catching any they could eat & I think they might have thought they were seeing another ML starting to happen. We have a place nearby on a lake(no slot) known for "eater" size fish that is stocked often & has a good public access. We could tell the difference in the amount of traffic, especially the guides. Personally I won't keep any much over 16, as they are rare where I fish most, unless they were hooked deep & looked like they wouldn't live.

[jkrash]

Hows the 18" - 23" working on Winne?

[Sculpin]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 1:55 PM, jkrash said:

 65,000 is easier to reach than one might think, in 02 & 03 we were very close to 100,000 pounds, well above the safe harvest level.

Another troubling aspect of the announcement by the Fond Du Lac is that they compromise only one of the bands that can declare to fish the lake.  If the other 6 WI. bands, and Mille Lacs come over, and declare their allowable harvest, OR if they decide to go for half the allowable harvest, in this case 32,500 Lbs. The Vermillion season could be compromised in a hurry. Even a couple bands taking their "allowable" could account for 15% of the harvest before the season even starts. 

Hang on tight.

 

  

[gunner55]

Too early to really tell but it seems to be to me as I'm seeing more traffic at the public access, Mosomo Pt, on Hwy 46. A little less at our access as well but some of that might be due to the discovery of Zeebs on our lake in the last few years.

[Wanderer]

On April 3, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Sculpin said:

Another troubling aspect of the announcement by the Fond Du Lac is that they compromise only one of the bands that can declare to fish the lake.  If the other 6 WI. bands, and Mille Lacs come over, and declare their allowable harvest, OR if they decide to go for half the allowable harvest, in this case 32,500 Lbs. The Vermillion season could be compromised in a hurry. Even a couple bands taking their "allowable" could account for 15% of the harvest before the season even starts. 

Hang on tight.

 

  

According to the article the number the band is looking at is 2,500, not 65,000.  65,000 is "our" number.

I don't spend much time on Vermilion unfortunately but if I did I might just sit quietly and let the bands figure it out.  2,500 closely monitored pounds on that body of water seems sustainable.  When two sides start to pushing back on each other, one eventually wins bigger than they originally wanted.  And we know who would win given recent history.

To me the article is isn't much more than information.  Good info but not enough to keep typing and make myself late for work. 

I hope ya'll have a good season out there!

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Wanderer,

65,000 pounds is the total number of pounds that the DNR considers safe to harvest in Vermilion.

Natives can claim 1/2 of that number as theirs (32,500 pounds).

Cliff

[Wanderer]

Cliff,

I went back and re-read both the article and Sculpin's post.  I understand Sculpin's post better now.  But in the end it reinforces my comment.  The Bands could take the 32,500 but are managing for 2,500 at this point.  Folks seem to think that's a reasonable take and the Bands are at the table talking right now about management. I was actually more interested in what the take was for the 3 small lakes.  

Getting upset about it and pushing back at this point could stir the hornet's nest and get more bands involved than already are just to demonstrate and exercise their rights.  It's not like it hasn't already happened in other places with other resources.  

Just thought I'd comment after reading the thread this morning.  I'm not heavily invested in Vermilion like most of you are but I do care about it.  I wouldn't be excited to see nets in front of my property either which is a possibility now that I live in ceded territory.  But I'd deal with it and monitor it closely.

And like the nets, I won't stir this conversation nest anymore either.  

[Sculpin]

I feel compelled to add. I do not begrudge the Natives their share, nor do I begrudge them their ability and right to declare harvest in any lake in the ceded territory, I am however, opposed to gillnetting, anywhere.
In a true sport fishing harvest scenario, I challenge them to harvest like the rest of the sport anglers in Minnesota, with hook and line. They would soon realize the difficulty of the task at hand, and perhaps have a greater respect and understanding of the process that true sportsmen undertake to harvest their fish. 

When the fiasco started at Mille Lacs, the Bands wanted to have a "ceremonial" harvest scenario that meant taking a couple thousand pounds of fish, largely with spears. Spearing proved to be too difficult, too dangerous, too cold, and too time consuming.

You know the rest of the story. 

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Wanderer,

I agree with your line of thinking.

Cliff

[norwaybay]

Everyone has an opinion regarding the harvest but hopefully all parties can agree on a common principle that Vermilion remains a healthy fishery for years to come.  Although I am not a muskie guy even if the topic was netting muskies I would feel the same way that the status of the fishery remains the most important.  It is truly a beautiful lake.  The differences in opinion shouldn't be Natives vs non-Natives but what we can all do to promote the fishery.

[jkrash]

It's my understanding that Boise Forte (Fortune Bay Casino) and Fond Du Lac (Black Bear Casino) are the only two bands that have the right to net/spear Vermilion. Boise Forte has been doing it for a long long time and can only net along there reservation shoreline, they do it in a more traditional way by using canoes, they do not monitor what they take and do not share information with the DNR. The DNR has accounted for there take before setting the 65,000 pound safe harvest level, so the safe harvest level is actually higher than 65k.

The Fond Du Lac band uses motor boats/ lights and can go anywhere on the lake, they have a biologist that determines sex, measures & weighs, every fish, they share that information with the DNR, there take will come from the 65,000 pound safe harvest level if they decide to net/spear vermilion this year.

[Sculpin]

The treaty of 1837 assured 8 Chippewa bands the right to hunt, fish, gather, and harvest in 12 east Central MN. counties. I believe the WI. bands would also have the right to harvest Vermilion, the same as they do at Mile Lacs. In addition, the 1855 treaty, if successfully defended in the courts, would pretty much open the entire northern half of the sate up for the same harvest rights. It is encouraging that the Boise Forte have been excellent stewards of the Vermillion resource, and they confine their efforts to a small area, but they can in fact harvest wherever they wish, as can the Fond Du Lac.

The folks who monitor and record the harvest are generally the GLIFWC, the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission, a taxpayer funded Indian DNR of sorts that was hatched to oversee the harvest on Mille Lacs back in the 90"s.   

[jkrash]

Many of the bands accepted payments to give up there rights to net on Vermilion, Boise Forte was one of the bands that did accept payment but they are still able to fish along there reservation shoreline only. The only other band able to net on Vermilion is Fond Du Lac.

43 minutes ago, jkrash said:

this is a edited version:

Many of the bands/tribes accepted payments to give up there rights to net on Vermilion and other lakes, Boise Forte was one of the tribes that did accept payment but they are still able to fish along there reservation shoreline only. The other tribes able to net on Vermilion are Fond Du Lac & Grand portage.

The Grand Portage tribe from far northeastern Mn. has never exercised there rights to do so and I doubt that they will given there location and access to endless fishing opportunities.

The Fond Du Lac tribe does have there own fisheries biologist.

[jkrash]

Posted 4/28/16

LAKE VERMILION— The first night of netting by members of the Fond du Lac Band at Peterson’s Landing on the western end of Lake Vermilion went off without major controversy Tuesday night, and with only a minimal harvest of walleye.

Band members were expected to be back for another night of netting late Wednesday, after the Timberjay’s weekly presstime.

A total of 18 band members participated in the first night’s harvest. Participating members deployed a single, 100-foot net on Tuesday evening and recovered it on Wednesday morning.

Fond du Lac biologists and law enforcement recorded the harvest, which included 13 walleye, totaling 38 pounds, along with 37 northern pike, totaling 51 pounds.

Fond du Lac had set a walleye quota of 2,500 pounds, with no quota for other species, so the first night’s harvest represents only a tiny fraction of the allowable catch.

Band members determine day-to-day whether they’ll continue the harvest and couldn’t say how long beyond Wednesday they expected to continue with netting operations.

The scene was a busy one, according to observers. “There were a lot of different enforcement people there,” said Edie Evarts, Tower area fisheries manager, who went to observe the harvest on Wednesday morning. The DNR has no authority over the netting, which is authorized under the terms of the 1854 Treaty, which is regulated by the federal government.

Brian Borkholder, a Fond du Lac biologist who oversees the harvest, said he couldn’t comment on the first night’s harvest or how long the operations might continue on Lake Vermilion.

While Fond du Lac has long had rights to hunt and fish within the 1854 Treaty zone, which includes most of northeastern Minnesota, this is the first time in recent memory that the band has opted to exercise its rights on Lake Vermilion. The band had proposed to harvest on Vermilion last year, but the Bois Forte Tribal Council had prevailed upon Fond du Lac officials to delay for at least a year. Bois Forte band members have undertaken subsistence netting on the lake for generations, which does not appear to have had a significant impact on the lake’s walleye population, which remains among the most robust of any lake in Minnesota.

Under the terms of the 1854 Treaty, Indian tribes are allowed half the safe harvest on lakes within the treaty zone, although the harvest announced by Fond du Lac won’t come anywhere near that level. Evarts said the DNR considers 65,000 pounds to be the safe harvest level for walleye on Vermilion.

Even so, DNR officials have been in discussion with Fond du Lac about their long-term plans, which currently include an annual harvest on Vermilion. “Their intent is to alternate each year between the east and west basins,” said DNR regional fisheries manager Joe Mix.

Mix noted that the Fond du Lac harvest is intensively managed, with both law enforcement and a team of biologists on hand whenever a netting or spearing night is established. “We’ll know right down to the fish, what they harvest,” said Mix.

They should probably suspend netting until the DNR can figure out whats going on wwith the west end.

[delcecchi]

8 hours ago, jkrash said:

They should probably suspend netting until the DNR can figure out whats going on wwith the west end.

I don't know if you said that or the article said that, but the DNR will never, based on years of precedent, figure out what's going on on the west end.   It took years and a major disaster to figure out Mille Lacs and even then the public doesn't agree and the DNR has no real clue how to fix it. 

The only hope we and the DNR have is that it is some sort of natural cycle/bad luck and it will fix itself, as it seems to be in Niles Bay.  

My theory is the fertilty dropped when they made people fix bad septics so the fry starve...   (mostly joking but could be true to an extent) 

[Cliff Wagenbach]

They are already netting on the west end.

Very poor catch rate the first night.

I hope it stays that way!

Cliff