The good and bad of Lake Vermilion

[FishinCT]

The good:

My yearly trip up to the lake just ended and I must say, this year was truly the best fishing I have ever experienced on Lake Vermilion. Was up there from the 16th until this morning, so I ran the gamut on weather for this time of year. 

MarkB had posted before I got there saying that the fishing was incredible, and I echo those comments fully. Caught fish in all but two spots I fished all week, and those two spots were only because I got pushed off quickly by wind. Tons and tons of eater fish in the lake, and I also found that the fish in big bay ran a size larger than farther west. Caught fish anywhere from 13-40ft jigging and bottom bouncing with big sucker minnows being the ticket. Missed ~20 bites per day because of that but my average fish was much nicer than when other people in the boat were using smaller minnows. 

The day that sticks out this trip was last Monday afternoon. It was a clear, sunny, warm fall day and we found some very nice walleyes in 16 to 19 feet of water. From 1-3pm we boated a 26, 3-22s, 18.5, 17, and 15 inch fish. Absolutely awesome afternoon. I have never caught that many slot fish in a row on this lake and I can't help to believe that the best times are still ahead of us. However, that also brings me to...

The bad:

Let me preface this by saying that I know I don't post a lot on here, so I doubt many of you are familiar with me. But that doesn't make me any less invested in the lake as a whole, I just don't get up enough to add anything meaningful to the message board. I also hope for some feedback and/or discussion. 

I don't think I saw a fish released by any other boat this entire trip, and it honestly makes my blood boil to see 8-10 inch walleyes being dropped in a live well. If you think a 10 inch walleye is an eater, I'll gladly give you a few bucks to go to the store and buy a pack of kipper snacks. There are so many fish around 14" in this lake right now that if you can't catch a few of those, just go to the vermilion club and get the walleye dinner! We are only a few more weak year classes from starting to run into some harder times on this lake. It is a resource, and like any resource walleyes are able to be over exploited. It has to take two 8 inch fish to equal a 14 incher in filet size, so do the math on that spread out over how many people and it doesn't take long to add up. 

I think this lake desperately needs a minimum size in addition to the slot. 14" would be my preference but shoot, I'd even take 12" after what I saw last week. I don't know how to get involved to get something like that moving but I'm going to start looking into it. Hopefully enough people have seen what I've seen and would be on board with it. 

Alright now I can breathe! Thanks to everyone that posts on here throughout the year and especially to MarkB, your posts got me on fish immediately and helped me get over my mental block of using large minnows. I will update again around this time next year!

CT

[Cliff Wagenbach]

FishinCT,

You are absolutely right about 10" walleyes not being eater sized fish!

That being said, I really do not think that there are many other fishermen that would keep that sized fish to eat either. Especially during this time of the year when 14"+ walleyes are very easy to catch even by the worst fisherman! Plus the fishermen at this time of the year are mostly "Hard-Core" fishermen who know how to catch decent fish and who know what a real "eater" walleye should be.

I have also seen summer tourists keep small walleyes to eat. I really believe they keep that sized fish because they are just not good enough fishermen to be able to catch decent fish! Many of these fishermen probably only get to fish once a summer in many cases.

I for one, would hate to deprive these people of the chance to catch and eat a meal of fresh walleye on their own. Hopefully they will become better fishermen over time and realize that they can do better!

I have never been a proponent of a minimum walleye slot on this lake and probably never will be. Although I was not in favor of the slot system we now have either! I certainly am now! It works!  "So far".

Cliff

 

 

[delcecchi]

You don't fish the west end. 

[Jay Schelde]

There is a new citizen/ stakeholder group formed last month to look at the Lake Vermilion fishery as a whole. This group is composed of 3 guides, 3 resort owner/ operators/ a lake biologist, local business owners local town officials and citizens on the lake. The first two issues we are dealing with is Stocking on Vermilion and Fingerling stocking the far west basins in particular, and the walleye slot. We will eventually expand to deal with any other issues that affect Vermilion. Wherever you stand on the fish slot issue it will be good to get your opinion to this group. we will be setting up a contact list and publishing our meeting info in local papers. This is not a study group but an action group that will get results to keep our fishery healthy. 

My personal opinion on the slot is that there should be a 12 inch to 20 inch harvest with a 12 in. minimum and we need to reduce the number of large  fish so allow one in the slot. I personally think 14 in. Is a better minimum but agree with Cliff that sometimes that is mostly what is caught. This is a personal opinion. 

There is a dye study out there by the DNR that we have never seen results on. These are fry reintroduced and was to be used as reproduction and survivability indicator. The results have never been released. Plus the number of reintroduced fry has declined significantly in the last few years. 

While we are considered a natural reproduction lake, millions of our walleye spawn are taken out and used elsewhere. All fisherpersons  On Vermilion are concerned of the health of our Walleye fishery.  The issues of invasive species, forage, bait fish, fishing pressure, predation, slots and other factors have been studied extensively. Our local economies can not and should not let our lake go down the path of a Mille Lacs scenario. Only by PROACTIVE  action will we be able to insure that we continue to be one of the best walleye lakes in Minnesota.

[bassbouncer]

13"minimum up to 20" and one over 20". I'm in if you need any input or help. I own a couple businesses in Cook and live on the lake. Have fished it for 45 years. 

Bill Nieters

[portageguy]

I was a night watchman at the hatchery on the Pike river for 7 seasons. The DNR puts more  fry back in Vermilion then the eggs they take out. In the lake 3-5% hatch rate, the hatchery 75% plus. One thing I never did understand was the stocking back rate is set years in advance. My question to them was why not adjust that rate on previous years test results. About 4 years ago I suggested a 13-20 inch protected slot for Walleyes on Vermilion. The answer was it wouldn't work. The committee formed on Vermilion is a very good idea.

Lonnie Johnson

Vermilion resident, 

Trout lake portage contractor, 

Guides league member 

 

[sheephead2]

Doesn't Vermilion have spiny water fleas.

JUST WONDERING can DNR put Vermilion Fry into other lakes 

IF NOT.Then they could take all the fry from Vermilion and return it to lake.

[portageguy]

A 13-20 inch harvest slot was suggested by Lonnie.

Yes we have Spiny fleas. 

Sounds like a filter system will be put in at the hatchery for lake water. The DNR will then keep Pike river hatchery in operation. 

Fry are now treated to not spread VHS,we don't have that yet.

Let's all do are part and not spread any of the invasive species. 

Great time of year fishing and hunting.

Be safe. 

[SkunkedAgain]

I'm not out fishing enough to see people keeping the little walleye, so I'm a bit ambivalent. If it is indeed a problem then I'd be fine with setting a minimum cap. Stealing one of the proposals from above, I'd suggest an open slot between 12" and 20" (or 11"/12"/13", 18"/19"/20"/21") with an allowance for one over and one under the open slot. That allows people to take a small walleye if it's important to them but not in gross excess.

I've only been on Vermilion for a little over a decade but I've definitely noticed an improvement in the walleye fishing. I mostly fish the west end but hit Fectos when others insist upon it. I love how many mid-20" walleye I have been able to catch in recent years. It's a hoot and they do fight, they just don't jump and thrash like other species. I'm in favor of keeping the slot in general but tinkering with it every 5-10 years to eventually (in 30-50 years) finding the right balance. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by SkunkedAgain

[MNBIGBEAR]

I like the idea of one over the slot, whatever that may be. I have seen several mid 20's walleyes floating belly up over the years and that just seems like a waste to me. Allowing one over would solve this problem for the most part I think. 13-20" with one over sounds like a good plan to me.

[FishinCT]

Cliff, I would tend to agree with you about the type of fishermen out this time of year. Yes there are some nice fish being kept as well, but the only time I get up to the lake is in mid October every year. And I've seen the same thing year after year.

I just get worried because the dnr data about recent hatches isn't great. Only 3 strong year classes in the last decade. That can only carry you for so long, especially considering two of them were in '06 and '07. Plus, the gillnet catch in 2014 was the lowest since 1994.

The creel survey data shows that 8-11" fish aren't kept as often as other sizes, which obviously makes sense. But there were still well over 5000 walleyes in that length group kept! And that's just the fish the creel survey actually saw. I've never been checked in October and there are still plenty of fishermen that time of year. I just think if we protected those fish it would be positive for the lake in the long run. 

[guideman]

Keep in mind that about 80% of those 10" fish won't survive to be 15 inches.  In my humble opinion the Walleye fishing has been very good the last several years and I see no reason to mess with it.

"Ace"

"It's just fishing man

[CaptJohnWis]

I fish the Canadian side of Rainy Lake most of the time. Ontario only lets you keep walleyes between 13.7 and 17.7 inches (or one over 27"). I have fished there for over 40 years and the walleye fishing is better now than ever. I wish Minnesota would stop allowing harvest of dink walleyes. I think numbers of fish and size would increase just like it did on Rainy.

Does anybody really need to keep a 10-inch walleye?

 

I do fish Minnesota lakes too. Here is one from October on Pelican by Orr,MN. Released of course.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Only one way to find out if it would work!

Cliff

[delcecchi]

I think zone 5 has one over 18 in the walleye limit.

But, I see Rainy is special, with slot, perhaps to align with us side

[JerkinLips]

I would like 14" minimum with one  18"-22" fish allowed.  Larger walleyes don't taste good enough to justify keeping them, and if a person wants a mount, they can get a replica.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

I myself prefer 13" to 15" walleyes for eating. Anything over 17" is just to big to cook well in a deep fryer unless it is cut into smaller pieces. Which brings me right  back to smaller fish again!

I do have to admit that for grilling an 18" to 20" walleye works best!

My real fear about being able to keep one or two fish in the current slot size is that smaller fish kept in the live well,.(maybe to long), will be thrown back when a keeper sized slot is caught. I can see that happening way to often if the fishermen are looking for bigger fish to keep to begin with.

How many years of keeping Vermilion's spawners to eat will it take to deplete our current healthy reproducers?

Cliff

[10,000 Casts]

I'm actually of the opinion that there might be too many small walleyes in the sysem. When the walleyes are aggressive, it can be hard to keep the dinks off your line. I think it's a question of whether you want lots of numbers or a trophy fishery. I'd personally prefer a trophy fishery but the majority wants 14"-18" eaters. It's seems to be a tough balance for the DNR. 

[delcecchi]

Just go west, young man and your wish for few small walleyes and mostly big ones will be a reality.

[10,000 Casts]

A friend gave me something to think about when it comes to the walleye population on the west end. He said he believes that a lot of the Walleyes migrate east because that's where are the incoming rivers are so a lot of the population migrates and then just stays over there.

Thoughts?

[Cherokee Ref]

Not an expert walleye guy at all, but I would question that, seeing as how everyone says the west end has more slot size (aka "brood fish") in its population.

[SkunkedAgain]

1 hour ago, 10,000 Casts said:

A friend gave me something to think about when it comes to the walleye population on the west end. He said he believes that a lot of the Walleyes migrate east because that's where are the incoming rivers are so a lot of the population migrates and then just stays over there.

Thoughts?

That might be the biggest inlet but it's not the only one.

[delcecchi]

The problem on west end is that fry don't make it to age one. 

[portageguy]

A 13-20 inch harvest slot was suggested by Lonnie.

Yes we have Spiny fleas. 

Sounds like a filter system will be put in at the hatchery for lake water. The DNR will then keep Pike river hatchery in operation. 

Fry are now treated to not spread VHS,we don't have that yet.

Let's all do are part and not spread any of the invasive species. 

Great time of year fishing and hunting.

Be safe. 

Many years ago a test during spawn was done at hatchery. Female walleye that had been stripped of eggs were released all over Vermilion. They had tags marking the location released. I was told only a handful from the West lake made it back to hatchery the next Spring. A lot of the walleyes from the east lake made it back. 

 The other thing to think about a lot of the walleyes under 18" are males. Could some lakes have a shortage of males to fertilize eggs. 

[bassbouncer]

On November 9, 2015 at 11:54:11 AM, 10,000 Casts said:

A friend gave me something to think about when it comes to the walleye population on the west end. He said he believes that a lot of the Walleyes migrate east because that's where are the incoming rivers are so a lot of the population migrates and then just stays over there.

Thoughts?

20+ years ago the west end had all kinds of walleyes. What is happening now with mostly big fish and hardly any eaters is a fairly recent phase. 

[delcecchi]

On 11/12/2015, 7:46:56, bassbouncer said:

20+ years ago the west end had all kinds of walleyes. What is happening now with mostly big fish and hardly any eaters is a fairly recent phase. 

Been like ten years.  I remember when it used to work to go sit on a reef with a bobber in the evening.  Been a good while since that would produce anything.  For a while, there were masses of gills on those reefs that used to have walleye.  Nice gills, but not the same.  

[JerkinLips]

I don't want Vermilion to turn into another Mille Lacs with only large walleyes left.  Small walleyes are needed to grow into larger ones, and provide meals for people that prefer the tastier small fish.  Could Mille Lacs problem have been caused by too many large walleyes eating walleye fry?

[delcecchi]

The current thinking is that the Mille lacs problem was caused by cannibalism.   The west vermilion problem is thought to be poor survival for first  year, not  cannibalism.   All theories subject to change. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by delcecchi