Eating fish

[walleye29us]

Well your entitled to your opinion.

[crestliner61]

Yes Xplorer. The night ban for a whole year is an extreme and would not be very pleasant. Maybe try it from Nov 15th till Dec 15th and from opener to June 1st. Still not very pleasant and be very chaotic getting on/off the lake during those times, but would force people off the lake. If they don’t see this as possible, go to 1-2 fish limit during those times. The no eating on the lake, that’s fine with me. I am sure this would help, but to me it is hard to measure. You would still have the same amount of hours on the lake and we don’t really know how many people are eating limits of fish on the lake. The 3 times (last 3 winters) I have been up there, my wife and I had some fish twice and it did not affect what we took home. We left the lake short our limit (2 fish) both times. Maybe we are the exception, I don’t know, who really knows?

[crestliner61]

How does the DNR get their numbers? 1.5M hrs of fishing last season, correct?

295 days a yr * 24hrs per day = 7,080hrs per day.

1.5M total hrs / 7,080hrs per day = 211 soles on the water per day.

211 soles x 3lb average per day = 633lbs per day.

633lbs per day x 295 fishing days per yr = 186,735lbs.

Is this how it works?

[BringAnExtension]

How about closing the lake to fishing between 10:00PM and 6:00AM for a year?

If I was a resort, I would be selling more road passes then because my sleeper rental business just went in the tank.

[kelly-p]

This most likely for Kelly, could you explain what the agreement is once we hit are quota. Reading and trying to understand, have we reached are winter quota? What is supposed to happen if we reach or exceed it. Is it an immediate shut down or what. The only thought I would have if the winter quota is exceeded and it counts toward are summer quota than some type of an even lower limit needs to be implamented for winter. I do not ice fish URL but soft water is great I would hate to see my time limited because of over fishing in the winter.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

How does the DNR get their numbers? 1.5M hrs of fishing last season, correct?

That is only the fishing hours for December and January.

Through January, officials tallied 1.5 million angling hours, easily besting the

record 1 million set last winter.

[Red Lake Remote]

{added- Kelly P posted the while I took a phone call but some of the same info in other words}

To answer a few questions.

Hooking mortality is figured into harvest numbers as a percentage of total harvest. I was one of the members that called out the low hooking mortality numbers right away and I was proven wrong from two separate directions. Hooking mortality is actually very low. It is estimated the pelicans in the spawning grounds do much more damage than hooking mortality as far as total pounds. Shallow lake, short jig/bobber rig fights and anglers equipped to unhook help keep the numbers lower than a deeper, troller caught lake.

If we reach the max harvest quota season is closed, no question about it. Late last summer we came very close to it. So close I almost started to rescedule my fall fishing trips in the guide boat. As far as reaching the cautionary zone the MN DNR has gone through a few hoops to give more power to regional offices to quickly make changes if need be.

Closing the lake at night will ever fly on paper...and we all know it has to work on paper first. One thing to remember is Red Lake is federally navigable waters under some federal jurisdiction since it does harbor an international border. It makes who can and can not control the traffic upon the lake very interesting, if the fight gets dirty. You know it would be a legal battle like no other if a state enforces anglers or wheelhouses into a no travel or utilization on what truly is federally navigable water. It would be like the current debate/battle with gating of the forest roads around here.

As for my thought on the Beacon Harbor season pass deal, pure genius. Less traffic, guaranteed income, better control of how his region is fished and much better ice management all with happier clients. I had a few of his clients drift over my way and they were friendly, courteous and just plain happy people. Watching it from afar it looked like a great plan and the anglers overall did well. Yes in the end he had two separate outfitters slammed into the spaces between Hillman's, Beacon Harbor and me simply to prove they could do it, put on a dog and pony show and be jerks, but that is not a normal deal and my guess with any work or snow at all it will not happen like that again. Especially after the business both outfitters lost by showing that area is accessible with a much shorter drive from Waskish based resorts, and I know I picked up several new clients just from them watching my track machines and remote houses from the competition rentals. It actually turned out to be advertising and new clientele we got for zero advertising dollars. So yes I think Beacon Harbor may be setting a trend that will spread across the lake. They did not get burned at all, I actually was very impressed by it from my standpoint.

For the future, and this is MY PERSONAL opinion, we will need to keep the limits lower. We can go on as we are but reduce the bag limits in turn wich should reduce pressure to some degree and will definitely reduce harvest numbers. Drastic and radical laws such as night fishing ban, eating ban, restricting lake travel or utilization just does not work due to law complexity and enforcement issues. Short term, restrict the take as other lakes get back on track again. LOW had a goofy year, Mille Lacs is coming back, Leech is a sleeping giant right now, Winnie is starting to come back online again along with several smaller lakes kicking out fish and gaining popularity this year. Long term, collect the data, take a hard look at fish density/population and adjust the MOU agreements accordingly.

One thing about it from The craze of the 70-80's to the crash of the 90s into the "crappie boom" throughout the "recovery" and now what I have seen dubbed "the infestation" Upper Red Lake is always interesting to say the least.

[crestliner61]

That is only the fishing hours for December and January.

Through January, officials tallied 1.5 million angling hours, easily besting the record 1 million set last winter.

Okay, can you show me the math or where to get it on how they/we arrive at that number? It's not to dispute, I just would like to know.

[Red Lake Remote]

It is not so much math as simple counting.

Creel survey takes in "x" amount of information from "x" amount of anglers. Then you may notice state trucks and state planes creeping around, they are counting total houses, boats, portables, vehicles etc and gathering other basic info. Then the creel info is worked against the total number of wheelhouses, skid houses, rental houses, boats autos, portables, etc.

It is not a guess, it is actually a factored equation from actual head counts and factual data.

I have spoken with the guys out counting....they looked like they had been through tragedy or seen a ghost. Not a job I would want.

[Bigfatbert]

What a mess this state has with ther big lakes and the fishing that goes with it. To start with CO's need to have the ability to enter fishing shelters to enforce the laws. You just can't have a day go by with 2000 plus shelters on the lake and not be able to enforce game laws. It just doesn't make any sense that a person can say go away, your not welcome in my fish shelter. Laws are there ,and NEED to be able to be enforced all day long,every day. Game rules and regulations are all part of a puzzle that's so needed to have fishing and hunting available to us , and have the fish or game available to us.

Eating fish should not be allowed while out on the lake , there should be a regulation that states it. Yes your going to have people that don't like it ,BUT it's needed.

I don't think anybody likes our possesion law either, BUT it is so much needed.

Let's all face it that today's fishing, be it in a boat, or be it on the ice,is so much different than 20-30 years ago. Be it with gear or just the sheer amount of people participating in the fun. We need updated game laws,and we need to be able to enforce them.

The way red is/was this ice season, is basically a big free for all, in so many ways. Un-inforceable game laws. Easy fish catching , even for new or not experienced people, and easy travel.

Also hearing or seeing that this outfitter or resort is sending people to my area , or infringing on his area. Or my road , or his road. The state portion of the lake is public , last I heard. Could any one imagine if I or anybody else decides to drill some holes and set up a portable , or wheelhouse , smack dab in the middle of any road out there , how do you think that would go over. For the record , I would never do it ,out of respect to who is maintaining the road, but.....

At this point , I don't believe that the lake has crashed , once again . Things do need to be changed.

Lotteries have been mentioned , but no , any body should be able to fish the public lake.

Right now Red is in turmoil , Mille Lacs is in turmoil , leech is by no means puttin out fish like it should , LOW is having a sub par winter season, I hope it's the water clarity, Winnie had a very slow summer, again I hope it's water clarity,

It is just sad to see all that's happening to Red .And to quote the hardest working individual on Red lake , I say "yes, it's a grand lake" end quote. End my ramble.

.

[walleye29us]

If the game warden stops to check you in your shack, you can tell them TO GO AWAY? Thats insane.

[crestliner61]

It is not so much math as simple counting.

Creel survey takes in "x" amount of information from "x" amount of anglers. Then you may notice state trucks and state planes creeping around, they are counting total houses, boats, portables, vehicles etc and gathering other basic info. Then the creel info is worked against the total number of wheelhouses, skid houses, rental houses, boats autos, portables, etc.

It is not a guess, it is actually a factored equation from actual head counts and factual data.

I have spoken with the guys out counting....they looked like they had been through tragedy or seen a ghost. Not a job I would want.

I can see why the creel count is so important!

Yea, counting heads, fish houses would be stessfull.

[Down Deep]

Certainly would be completely fair that property owners would be assured a permit.. that doesn't seem unreasonable at all. I LIKE THE IDEA

What ever happened to the Walleye Stamps the DNR was selling??

I liked that idea also. Good ca$h generator to aid the resource, help with enforcement, that type of thing...

I would not at all be surprised, based on current trends, if they continue in this way and the population continues its pattern and the ice fishing continues to increase in popularity and EASE... is it that big of a stretch of the imagination that some sort of permit/lottery type system could actually happen????

Just wondering out loud. As is with everything. Some would like it others would not and just about everyone complains when something CHANGES.

The idea of permits in fraught with problems. It works OK in the BWCA because there is a limited number of people who want permits for canoeing, but on the motorized portages permits are 100% of the permits are snapped up in January for the coming open water season. The locals hate it.

Why should property owners get preference over another taxpayer and license holder. Public lakes with public access should be accessible and buying property shouldn't assure anyone unequal access. Then there is the problem of issuing permits. Permit fees for the BWCA - State Parks - National Parks etc run anywhere from $10 to $20 per permit. So I if fish on 20 separate occasions I'm looking at maybe $200 in extra cost. What about flexibility? I'm sitting at home and my buddy calls up and says lets go to Red this afternoon for a couple of days. Nope, can't do it, no permit. The entry permit system is what caused most of the BWCA controversy for over 40 years. People who live in Ely or on the north shore can't take an overnight trip to fish a lake 2 miles from there homes unless they made plans to do it months before.

The DNR better get ready for a firestorm of pizzed off fisherman if they ever tried to roll out a permit system.

[Sculpin]

I have said this before about the creel census, and it is in fact a huge bone of contention down at Mille Lacs, especially in the summer time. If you are asked to participate in a creel census please give them FACTUAL information to the best of your ability, and recollection. We all like to brag about our "numbers" when the catch rate is good.

Just once and awhile, if you have in fact caught 11 walleyes, simply say 11, not 15,or 20,or 25. Be not ashamed.

We killed them, slaughtered them, pounded them, etc. does not make for a good census.

Sometimes I marvel at the numbers I see posted up on the Red site. Everyone have a clicker going out there ??

Maybe it's my advancing age, but I can't even keep track of how many crappies I have in a bucket once I get into double digits.

Exaggeration of your catch adds HUGE numbers to the creel, and compounds the mortality issue.

It all adds up, especially with millions of hours of fishing at stake.

[Bryce]

Dry erase board on the wall helps with count. Technology strikes again.