Too much pressure!?!

[delcecchi]

A million hours in a month? Holy Cow. The state area of the lake is 50k acres so each acre (200 foot by 200 foot) area got 20 hours? And in that 20 hours they harvested 1.5 lbs of fish?

The harvest was 77k lbs/million hours or .07 pounds per hour? And people are flocking to it?

These numbers don't seem right to me. Did I misinterpret something? Or did someone throw out some bogus numbers?

[crestliner61]

***News Flash***

The pressure problem of wheel houses that URL is currently seeing is what the DNR has affirmed as the predominant reason for the increased pressure on URL. So if you own one and have just recently (last 2-3 yrs) started to make memories on the lake you should stop doing so.

Watch out for that swinging door…..causes its always swinging and if it hits you in the face, its probably because you are looking at whats behind you instead of looking ahead……

[Red Lake Remote]

A million hours in a month? Holy Cow. The state area of the lake is 50k acres so each acre (200 foot by 200 foot) area got 20 hours? And in that 20 hours they harvested 1.5 lbs of fish?

The harvest was 77k lbs/million hours or .07 pounds per hour? And people are flocking to it?

These numbers don't seem right to me. Did I misinterpret something? Or did someone throw out some bogus numbers?

Yes, those numbers are correct. I have not seen them on paper yet, but per my phone conversation directly with the department in charge the harvest year (Dec 1st -Dec 1st) at the end of January was shocking to say the least. 60 days into a year's worth of fishing the total is roughly 1.5 million anglers hours and 127,000 lbs for the state anglers on non-reservation waters of Upper Red Lake.

We (state anglers) are already at target harvest and now working past target harvest, into the cautionary range towards the harvest cap. We have approached this number in record time with the highest angler hour/pressure rate ever recorded. Basically, we have taken what would be a heavy harvest year, yes an entire harvest year Dec 1 to Dec 1, and crammed it into the first two months.

We still have February to get through and let's not forget the May early June harvest that has been known to put up some numbers.

[Boar]

Hauling out fish by the truck loads left and right..... really?I guesse we wheel housers are like war of the worlds. we've landed on ice and were are "Rapeing" the resourse "hauling out truck loads left and right" Im sure wheel house are added pressure, but ive been in a wheel hous of sorts for 20 years and can tell you for every great day of fishing ive had ten or more tough days of fishing, I should say catching. ive come home with me and the kid's limits and ive come home with a perch. I would think that electronics and portability to go where ever you want and search out active pods of fish would add to more pressure than wheel houses. I garuntee you that when I set my wheele house up to fish me and most people will think twice before relocating if the were not on active fish. I beleive most of Rape House owners are very content on sitting in our fancy schmancy hotel on ice sipping cocktails BBQ, and just having an awsome time watching the sunset than we are worried that were not hauling out truck loads. whats the truck load limit anyway? Portables are runing and gunning looking for fish and structure and are far more effective at finding and catching fish. Wheele housers yes have added to the population of ice fishing enthusiests, but Id like to think the presure comes from social media, and protability. I just cant seem to ever remeber catching fish in a wheel house by the truck load. or in a portable, and I surely have never raped a fish that would be just weired. Just beacuse im in a wheel house dosent mean im catching fish or any one else in one either. I hope this eye on the prize continues. URL is and incredible place, the people are awsome and its just downright cool to be able to spend time there. I have family in Kellier and enjoy visiting and fishing with them and enjoying the area thats is unique and beatiful.

[creepworm]

I just cant seem to ever remeber catching fish in a wheel house by the truck load.

You alone probably never have. You and the thousands of other wheel houses out there combined, certainly are.

The thing you have to remember about wheel houses si while you may not catch them fast and furious like someone running and gunning, you still catch fish. The guy running and gunning generally catches more fish per hour fishing, but fishes less hours. While you are sitting there sipping your coffee watching the sunrise on a slow spot, you are probably still catching some fish, add up those extra hours and it probably becomes a wash more often than not when comparing running and gunning to wheel house fishermen.

[laker1]

I wonder how many walleye are released that are hooked deep,I have had many people go up to Red and say they caught and released 65-100 walleyes on a weekend.Even if 1 out of 10 was hooked deep,that is 6 to 10 additional fish killed. More than a limit. Sometimes you wonder,should we change how we fish when we are releasing them,or should we say we caught enough and quit fishing?

Yes barbless hooks on artificials in the winter would help>

[Down Deep]

I hadn't visited this thread for a while and was surprised how it blew up in to quite a debate. I think there will be quite a different situation when the normal snows return and people can't go wherever they want. Add to that gas prices are going back up. When the reality of the limits sink in the Twin Cities bunch might not pass up 100 other lakes to drive all the way to Red for two fish and no eating a fish on the lake, or stop just short of LOW where the fishing is good and regulations more liberal.

Anybody who fishes the first month of the open water season knows that there are a tremendous amount of walleyes leaving the lake on a daily basis. I'm sure that's going to get stricter regulations to account for that take as well.

NOTE: Before I get blasted by the "Twin Cities Bunch" comment------- It was made as an example of how far many of the rigs and fisherman come from.

[Ybone]

We're thinking of bringing a wheel house up to Red next week but once we get there we'll take the wheels off in order to protect the fishery.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

A million hours in a month? Holy Cow.

That was for January.

Quote:

The harvest was 77k lbs

That was for December.

So for the first months of the 2015 harvest year there were 1,500,000+ hours of pressure and 127,000 pounds of walleyes harvested. The top of Safe harvest is 168,000 pounds a year BUT the 63,000 pounds we were over Safe Harvest in 2014 need to be averaged into the 2013, 2015 and 2016 years for the 3 year running average. 2013 harvest was 156,474 pounds so only 11,526 pounds of the 63,000 pounds can be placed there.

[Willy]

Hauling out fish by the truck loads left and right..... really?I guesse we wheel housers are like war of the worlds. we've landed on ice and were are "Rapeing" the resourse "hauling out truck loads left and right" Im sure wheel house are added pressure, but ive been in a wheel hous of sorts for 20 years and can tell you for every great day of fishing ive had ten or more tough days of fishing, I should say catching. ive come home with me and the kid's limits and ive come home with a perch. I would think that electronics and portability to go where ever you want and search out active pods of fish would add to more pressure than wheel houses. I garuntee you that when I set my wheele house up to fish me and most people will think twice before relocating if the were not on active fish. I beleive most of Rape House owners are very content on sitting in our fancy schmancy hotel on ice sipping cocktails BBQ, and just having an awsome time watching the sunset than we are worried that were not hauling out truck loads. whats the truck load limit anyway? Portables are runing and gunning looking for fish and structure and are far more effective at finding and catching fish. Wheele housers yes have added to the population of ice fishing enthusiests, but Id like to think the presure comes from social media, and protability. I just cant seem to ever remeber catching fish in a wheel house by the truck load. or in a portable, and I surely have never raped a fish that would be just weired. Just beacuse im in a wheel house dosent mean im catching fish or any one else in one either. I hope this eye on the prize continues. URL is and incredible place, the people are awsome and its just downright cool to be able to spend time there. I have family in Kellier and enjoy visiting and fishing with them and enjoying the area thats is unique and beatiful.

I never said all wheelhouse owners are rapers. Most do it the right way. Just as the rest of the ice fisherman do. It is not that at all. It is the added pressure that just wasn't there before the popularity of them. As far as fish being hauled out by the truckload? They sure are when the bite is that hot. I would bet you could fill a 20 ton gravel truck almost every day with the amount of fish that leave the lake when the bite is on.

Yes, I have had a fishhouse 20 years also. 20 years ago, did you see all kinds of them out on every single lake? I sure didn't.

You had to build one yourself, or have someone do it for you. Now they are available to buy along any major highway in the state.

The pre-fab and anyone can buy one hurts fish populations, whether you want to admit it or not. I am not saying wheel house owners are bad. Not at all. What I am saying, is the the ease of buying one and the ease of fishing out of one is adding to winter fishing pressure all over the state. This is fact.

I don't have an answer to it either. Just know that all of that pressure during the winter sure doesn't help when you are talking about the number of fish in a lake.

[morepower02]

We're thinking of bringing a wheel house up to Red next week but once we get there we'll take the wheels off in order to protect the fishery.

problem solved. Now we can point the finger at guys that make more then one trip a season, websites/facebooks that say come up and fish Red and people that make a living off a lake plowing roads, renting cabins and putting people on fish.

Might as well point it at everyone if we are pointing.

[Down Deep]

We're thinking of bringing a wheel house up to Red next week but once we get there we'll take the wheels off in order to protect the fishery.

Are you going to leave the covers on the holes?

[Alagnak]

Well let's give credit where credit is due. I've read so much about this Mr. Genz guy 'revolutionizing' and 'modernizing' the way that people have ice fished over the years. Some people thinking of him as an ice fishing God drooling over the thought of rubbing elbows with such a mythical being at an ice show or event, going so far as to even dress in a goofy blue uniform and calling themselves the ice team ..... Do you guys place 100% of the blame on him and his butt sniffing followers? 90%?

[kelly-p]

Quote:

Might as well point it at everyone if we are pointing.

Every one of us that caught walleyes in the State waters of URL the past 1 1/2 years were part of the problem. Some of us realize that and know changes need to be made. Whether we like it or not this is the future of fishing in MN. That is why the creel census is so important.

[morepower02]

Mr. Genz does not use a wheel house. The Ice Team preaches run and gun to catch more fish.

[gunner55]

I think what's been happening on ML & Winnie has added to the amount of pressure on URL too.In the end it's a simple problem,too many fish are leaving the lake,but the solution will be anything but simple.

[Portavilla]

Guys this has nothing to do with wheelhouses causing the pressure or this would have been happening for a while and not an event. Think about it wheelhouses have been around for a while and more have been built over the last decade but Red Lakes pressure has not climbed at the same rate as new wheelhouses have entered the market, so what’s up with that. Did everyone just get the memo come November, I don’t think so in fact I know that’s not the case.

I will tell you this every lake has seen changes this year as a result of one cause and effect that is the state of Mille Lacs. Were wheelhouses used by displaced fisherman to fish Red and others sure they were. Was the increased pressure from the Metro? No it wasn’t. This is just a start of problems for Minnesota lakes as Mille Lacs has been a buffer zone for pressure for years that no other lake in the state can compensate for. That being said stopping wheelhouses accomplishes nothing, fixing the real problem is what needs to be done.

Red Lake has political issues not pressure issues or they would have shut it down and political issues are normal for any structured environment and should be expected.

[pushbutton]

Care to expand on what Upper Red's political issues are ....and why it does not have pressure issues?

[live4chrome]

You have the downfall of this and many other lakes sitting In your hand. It is the computer mouse or smartphone with Internet forums that spread the report of awesome fishing like wildfire. Back before the Internet forums and Facebook the only way you would hear of a good report would be person to person. Now all you have to do to figure out where to go and what to use is hop on the internet and it will do all the work but put the fish on your hook.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

,but the solution will be anything but simple.

When the walleye crash happened URL and LRL were down to an estimated 1 (ONE)spawning female to 41 acres of lake and we were trying to repair what we had already broken. Nobody knew if the walleye recovery would work or if we would end up with a lake full of stunted perch or sheepshead. The crappies were a wonderful surprise when they filled the void left by the walleyes rather then sheepshead. The recovery worked better than anyone could have hoped for. It could not have happened without the help and cooperation of the Red Lake Band. Just like we quit walleye fishing in the State waters of URL for 7 years the Red Lake Band members quit fishing walleyes in their waters of URL and LRL for 7 years. How many of the people reading this right now would be willing to quit walleye fishing for 7 years with the HOPE that things might be better in the future? The agreement with the Band has worked so good that now we a “problem” that the fishing is too good. This is a far better problem to have then being in a situation like we were with 1 spawning female to every 41 acres. Right now we can take steps to avert another walleye crash rather than try to repair the situation after it happens. We will just have to see what the technical and advisory committees can come up with. So far what they have done has worked better than anyone could have hoped for. Maybe the agreement with the Band can be looked at again and the top of the Safe Allowable Harvest raised? Maybe the lake can handle more harvest? I do not know. Even if we only raise the top of the safe harvest from 3.5 pounds per acre to 4 pounds per acre that is 144,000 pounds over the entire URL and LRL. 24,000 pounds on the State waters. What if the top of the safe harvest is raised and we have 2 or 3 late and cold Spring’s resulting in poor year classes? There are going to be a lot of hard questions for the committees to answer. In any case in my opinion it would be foolish and shortsighted to violate the agreement with the Band or to go forward without an agreement. None of us are more important than the health of the lake.

[Reedo7]

Ok. There has been some great discussion and info on this thread, and we probably need to lower the limit which is fine,but can we all just get back to fishing? And quit tearing each other apart for eachothers opinions.

[creepworm]

Guys this has nothing to do with wheelhouses causing the pressure or this would have been happening for a while and not an event. Think about it wheelhouses have been around for a while and more have been built over the last decade but Red Lakes pressure has not climbed at the same rate as new wheelhouses have entered the market, so what’s up with that. Did everyone just get the memo come November, I don’t think so in fact I know that’s not the case.

I will tell you this every lake has seen changes this year as a result of one cause and effect that is the state of Mille Lacs. Were wheelhouses used by displaced fisherman to fish Red and others sure they were. Was the increased pressure from the Metro? No it wasn’t. This is just a start of problems for Minnesota lakes as Mille Lacs has been a buffer zone for pressure for years that no other lake in the state can compensate for. That being said stopping wheelhouses accomplishes nothing, fixing the real problem is what needs to be done.

Red Lake has political issues not pressure issues or they would have shut it down and political issues are normal for any structured environment and should be expected.

This could possibly be the dumbest statement I have read on this site, and that is really saying something.

Are you seriously going to say that the amount of wheel houses on URL is the same this year as 5 years ago? This would go against what everyone that has visited the area and what the DNR has said.

[basskisser]

It is threads like this that make me question the internets existence at times...shut up and fish--the dnr has everything under control. I/we have caught and kept over 100 LEGAL fish from URL since about page 3 of these ramblings from all you experts and they were all delicious.

Yes, it was a heavy pressure/harvest year--BUT, if one looks at the AVERAGE harvest since the the "rebirth" of this great fishery, it is EXACTLY where it should be. Also, we all need to keep in mind that the harvest #'s are mere estimates and most likely worst case scenarios. As stated multiple times in this thread, regardless of the daily limit at any given time, I/we will continue to fish URL just for the "what if factor" i.e. 100 fish day, 10 lb. walleye, giant pike, 15" crappie---the stuff that dreams are made of...

[Portavilla]

Creepworm,

Of course wheelhouses were used by fisherman and spoons don’t make people fat. This is about numbers, allocations and cutting up the pounds. Sport fishing or commercial fishing it does not matter fishing by the numbers is pretty new. If the lake was in a state of pre-collapse would they be planning on taking hundreds of thousands of pounds next year? Of course not. The tribe wouldn’t allow it. We sportsmen are over our pounds on this lake and there other factors on other lakes. We all read it, track it and adapt for it fast.

I will give you one easy political issue; the DNR needs to be able to change limits quicker than they currently are capable. This is just one of the many changes that need to be done. URL is healthy and is far from a state of collapse. There should be some temporary changes to allow for the recovery of Mille Lacs and then people will be saying where are all the fisherman.

[Boreas]

What gets me about this thread is its 260 replies, several thousand views. Another is the fish house break in topic and the negative thread talking about the new regs are the busy discussions.

Several other topics have good reports, a few talking about good service in the area, a couple jokers joking around in another, and nothing but crickets and dust storms in those topics.

It is somewhat sad really.

[Reverend]

Well said Boreas. Even if the title of this thread is "Too much pressure" which I took as morweeke of a statement of the state of condition of the lake and surrounding lakes, I booked my trip with Steve and Tyler of Bear Paw Guides the first week of October for the week of February 16 and have not regret it. Bear paw guides, Cookies, Portavilla and the list goes on are the best and make their living giving us non-local visitors the memories of a lifetime. Don't get me wrong as this thread does attract the people who just want to point fingers and blast people who have an opinion. Human nature I guess. While I have found some of it interesting, I am more interested in what works and people catching, taking a pictures and safely releasing their fish. I don't even eat fish. I love the experience and would still make the 5 hour drive if it was catch and release walleye only.

If anybody wants some great food, cold beer or some good times, find me in the big shack next week.

[Boar]

Great food, cold beer, good times. yes sir, thats about it in a nut shell. Cause if it was all about catching I wouldnt spend five days at eelpout fest.

[Sy]

I think everyone wants to simplify this and say this ONE thing is the problem when in reality it is probably a whole bunch of things.

It is also hard to take someone seriously when they say the wheel house explosion has nothing to do with it when that person makes a living from those fees. When I fish in the wheelhouse I will fish for 40 hours (Fri. night to Sun) in a weekend instead of what used to be 10 hours or so. Add that in with the proliferation of them how can that not have an affect?

The ease of getting information on a hot bite also drives people there in great numbers. If you doubt that just look at the number of people looking at this forum compared to others. It was amazing to see the numbers in December.

All the technology of the last 20 year with electronic lake maps, cameras, flashers, and so on has vastly improved the success rate of those that flock to the hot bite making it an ever bigger impact. Also, the ease of getting around, low gas prices, and etc. have all come together to create this issue this year.

I think regardless of the reason we all agree we want what is best for the lake. It is an amazing fishery and I hope we can take steps to keep it that way before we get too far down the road. I don't think anyone is saying it is going to happen immediately but if we don't takes steps now it just gets harder in the future.

[Sculpin]

I would just like to make a point of something that was said back in the thread on this whole issue, and that involves what has been characterized as "subsistence fishing" by Native Americans.

There may in fact be "subsistence fishing" by Natives on Red, both Upper and Lower, but there is in fact also a commercial fishery on Lower Red. This is a gill net fishery for commercial purposes. Kelly or someone may have to correct or enlighten me, but my recollection is that initially the fishery for commercial sale was to be hook and line harvest, but the Natives could not sustain it and make it work, so back to nets, No judgment passed on that, just saying.

"Subsistence fishing" occurs on Mille Lacs, and other lakes as pointed out earlier, but I am always somewhat skeptical about the numbers on a per capita basis. Why in fact a couple hundred people need 75,000 pounds (low end) of fish to "subsist".

[kelly-p]

There is both subsistence fishing and the commercial fisheries harvesting from the Bands waters. The pounds harvested from both are added into the total harvest for the year. The top of the Bands waters safe harvest is the same as ours, 3.5 pounds per acre. I may not be right on the rest of these numbers but they are what I seem to remember so if anyone knows the right numbers feel free to correct me. Over 5,000 Band members live on the Red Lake Reservation. Unemployment runs about 60%. Only Band members can fish the Band waters of URL and LRL. Even if you are married to a Band member you can not fish on the Red Lakes. About 80 people work in the fisheries plant. I am not sure of the number of people hook and line fishing for the Fisheries plant but the number is increasing every year. That is tightly controlled. A person checks out a numbered cooler from the plant in the morning and has to check the cooler and fish caught back in that evening. The netting crews are only sent out if the hook and line fishermen are not catching enough fish. The hook and line fishermen are steadily increasing the % of pounds harvested from the Bands waters.

A few years ago I crossed the bridge over the Sandy River and a person was fishing off the bridge. It was a cold, wet and windy day so I figured that person must be a hardcore fishermen to be out fishing in those conditions. About 6 hours later when I crossed back over the bridge he was still there fishing so I stopped to talk to him and the two people that had joined him fishing in the wind and rain. The usual fishing talk and I noticed that their fishing rods were pretty old and beat up. When I asked him what they were biting on he showed me his tackle box. A small 4X8 inch plastic box with mainly plastics. I asked him if he used any live bait? No he replied, live bait was too expensive and he could not afford any. I noticed that he had a numbered fisheries cooler there so I asked if he was fishing for the Fisheries plant? He replied that he was and I asked how much money he could make in a week. He told me and said he could do better if he could afford a boat. I laughed and asked what he was going to do with all the money he made? He broke out in a great big smile and said that last month he was able to buy his Mom a TV. I think about that young man fishing in the cold rain a lot. We take live bait and nice fishing rods and boats and fish houses and TV’s for granted but they were all things he hoped to have someday.