Warranty repair denied

[Pherris]

I find myself in an odd position. I have a 2010 Opti Pro X/S that I brought in to have it winterized and asked the dealer to also check into an issue of a knocking sound that the motor was making. After about 2 weeks the dealer called and said my boat was ready for pick up. When I picked up my boat they said the knocking sound was a result of a bad lower unit and they replaced it and it was covered by my Merc warranty. So today I get a call from the shop that did the repair telling me the warranty claim was denied because the lower unit issue was a result of direct impact to the lower unit. The dealer said I should call my insurance company and file a claim or pay the $4200 or bring the boat back and they would put my old lower unit back in. I have never hit anything and even the dealer said there was no visible damage that would indicate hitting something but Mercury said they determined from internal examination that the issue was the result of impact so would not be covered. I called my insurance agent and he said it would be highly unlikely the insurance would pay for repairs that have been completed and were not approved and I should tell the dealer he should have never done any work on the motor without authorization from Merc and to tell the dealer to take it up with them. I am of the same opinion but wondered if anyone else has had an issue like this or how you would handle it at this point.

[ZachD]

I find myself in an odd position. I have a 2010 Opti Pro X/S that I brought in to have it winterized and asked the dealer to also check into an issue of a knocking sound that the motor was making. After about 2 weeks the dealer called and said my boat was ready for pick up. When I picked up my boat they said the knocking sound was a result of a bad lower unit and they replaced it and it was covered by my Merc warranty. So today I get a call from the shop that did the repair telling me the warranty claim was denied because the lower unit issue was a result of direct impact to the lower unit. The dealer said I should call my insurance company and file a claim or pay the $4200 or bring the boat back and they would put my old lower unit back in. I have never hit anything and even the dealer said there was no visible damage that would indicate hitting something but Mercury said they determined from internal examination that the issue was the result of impact so would not be covered. I called my insurance agent and he said it would be highly unlikely the insurance would pay for repairs that have been completed and were not approved and I should tell the dealer he should have never done any work on the motor without authorization from Merc and to tell the dealer to take it up with them. I am of the same opinion but wondered if anyone else has had an issue like this or how you would handle it at this point.

Sounds like their problem.. If they did the work without asking you then telling you it is covered by warranty.

They should have contacted you giving you a quote and saying it looks to be covered by warranty but will have to file a claim to make sure and let you know that it was possible that it would be denied and you would have a bill.

It seems as if someone messed up on this one... I wouldn't give them a dime

[harvey lee]

I would not pay the 1 cent.

[RebelSS]

Tell 'em to take a hike. If they did not inform you of the problem, and went ahead and corrected it, and NOW they tell you AFTER the fact that YOU must pay for it, that's their loss. Tell 'em to take you to court...which will be Conciliation Court, as it is under $15G, which is still the Minnesota limit, and where no lawyers are allowed. As a dealer, they represent Mercury, and miscommunication between them and Mercury is not your concern, it's theirs. One/both of them is going to be responsible for that bill. After many years in the legal field, that one is a hands down win for you, IMO. Make sure you have all documentation/signed agreements/call records on hand. Good luck.

[Wanderer]

They got nuthin...

They know it...

They're just checking to see if they can get something from you...

Enjoy your motor.

[CAMAN]

I agree with what the others have said. But will add you may want to find a new mechanic, on the chance they pull something (hold boat ransom, change out the lower unit, etc)

[Tom7227]

Well they probably still have the boat so his bargaining position is a bit weak. I had a similar problem with a cracked block on a 60 Merc that was 2 months out of warranty had less than 50 gallons of gas having gone through it. Merc denied the claim as it was out of warranty and the work wasn't done by an authorized dealer. Clearly an instance of a bad casting on the head but that wasn't enough.

I suggest that you try and negotiate with the dealer. Merc will just keep on telling you to drop dead.

[ZachD]

He said he picked up the boat and they called him later saying they owed him money. From what it seems he was all free and clear and because the shop made a mistake they are trying to recoup their money.

The fact that they gave you your boat back without you paying shows you something. Shops don't just go here have your boat back and if we can't get it under warranty then you come back and pay us. They should have told you that you could be paying and that they had to submit a claim.

[Pherris]

Thanks for the replies. I have the boat and receipt that shows there is no balance due. I had the boat home about a week before I got the call yesterday. I am going to follow up with the dealer and let him know I have no intention to pay and tell him to take it up with Mercury. My only fear is that they will just charge my credit card I used to pay for the winterizing. We will see and I will post as things progress. (On a side note in researching the issue it seems that Mercury denies many claims for lower unit warranty claims. But in all of the cases the work had not been done)

As Caveman mentioned I will be finding another dealer too.

[Wanderer]

Call your credit card company and block any charges coming from that dealer.

With your receipt showing a zero balance and no further authorization from you, if they charge against your account it becomes fraud in their part.

[RebelSS]

Call your credit card company and block any charges coming from that dealer.

With your receipt showing a zero balance and no further authorization from you, if they charge against your account it becomes fraud in their part.

Exactly. Call them now and alert them to deny any charges. You're totally in the clear.

[Scott K]

I would call the dealer, talk to the manager/owner of the store, not the service manager, explain to him the situation, and that you would have never approved the work have you known you were liable for the bill. If the owner/manager of the store values their customers, and doesnt want a bad word of mouth, they will take care of the bill without you involved. If this is the case, I would continue your business with them as usual. If the owner/manager says that you are liable for the bill, tell him they will have to take you to court to collect the money for a bill that you did not authorize. More then likely a rational owner will value the customer, and take care of the bill. Mistakes happen, it doesnt sound like they tried to screw you at all, and they called to inform you that the repair wasnt covered, and that you would just say, ok, bill my card. Give them a chance to make things right, before assuming they are crooks, and are out to screw you.

[MuskieJunkie]

I would not pay anything and would not give them my insurance info. My position would be - you guys fixed it on your own and did not ask for my input.

[Tom7227]

For all who are taking the tough stance how is the OP going to get his boat back?

[B-man715]

For all who are taking the tough stance how is the OP going to get his boat back?

He has it back......

[marine_man]

I would ask to speak to the manager of the business and make sure he fully knows the situation... I'd do this in person. I'd want to find out:

1) How mercury knows the internals were damaged; did they ship them the lower unit and they inspected it?

2) How / why they have the "damaged" lower unit back... mercury tore it down, found that it was damaged, then put it all back together and shipped it back to the dealer? Doesn't sound normal...

marine_man

[Hoey]

I'd like to see a copy of the Claim denial from Merc. Could it be the dealer is trying to double dip?

Good dealers will have leverage with the mfgr and would be able to influence/appeal decisions like this.

[pushbutton]

2) How / why they have the "damaged" lower unit back... mercury tore it down, found that it was damaged, then put it all back together and shipped it back to the dealer? Doesn't sound normal...

marine_man

This was my original thought. Suppose possible, but??? How long from when it was done till you got the call?

[Whoaru99]

1) How mercury knows the internals were damaged; did they ship them the lower unit and they inspected it?

[traveler]

very interesting thread. Good info in the previous post, except I can't agree with the last paragraph; the dealer needs to discuss a repair of that magnitude with the customer BEFORE preceding, warranty or not. If my mechanic, for instance, did 4 grand worth of work without my OK I think we'd have a problem.

I feel the dealer put himself on the hook here by not involving the customer in the process before preceding.

[gunner55]

I've been following this thread pretty close too.I have to agree with traveler,if a shop did any extra repair without discussing it with me I would be very PO.At the very least they shoild take the time to make a phone call.

[Whoaru99]

very interesting thread. Good info in the previous post, except I can't agree with the last paragraph; the dealer needs to discuss a repair of that magnitude with the customer BEFORE preceding, warranty or not. If my mechanic, for instance, did 4 grand worth of work without my OK I think we'd have a problem.

I feel the dealer put himself on the hook here by not involving the customer in the process before preceding.

Based on what we've been told (which, BTW, is only 1/3 side of the story) the dealer believed (or maybe assumed is better in this case) it was going to be covered by warranty. Why would they authorize a "free" repair with the customer?

Not that it matters to the outcome, but I'm curious to know if this is a pretty new dealer.

[MuskieJunkie]

I would ask to speak to the manager of the business and make sure he fully knows the situation... I'd do this in person. I'd want to find out:

1) How mercury knows the internals were damaged; did they ship them the lower unit and they inspected it?

2) How / why they have the "damaged" lower unit back... mercury tore it down, found that it was damaged, then put it all back together and shipped it back to the dealer? Doesn't sound normal...

marine_man

This is probably the best way to handle it but my time is valuable and I wouldn't waste any of it on these guy's double talk.

[MuskieJunkie]

For all who are taking the tough stance how is the OP going to get his boat back?

He got it back, the deal was done and over and then the repair shop came back later for your classic shake down.

[Cheers]

I read that the dealer is willing to put the old bottom end back on . I think they should be expected to do that for free but dont think they should have to go good for a new unit. The fight is between Merc and the boat owner , the dealer should fight for the customer but not be expected to be out thousands of $ . In this case I would expect the dealer to replace the bottom end at cost and the customer keep the defective part . Customer can then go after Merc or insurance independently. I realize the customer will have a hard time against a company but it is not the dealers fault either .

[Surface Tension]

You have all winter for this to get figured out before you need your boat this Spring.

A mistake was made by the dealer and yes there are 3 sides to this. You didn't occur any damages by that mistake and you won't occur any damages if ordered by the court to return the lower unit and have your old one put back on. The dealer doing that swap on their dime since it was their mistake. That would be worse case scenario on your part plus the headaches associated with going to court. Best case is you keep the lower unit at no cost.

I would not expect a free lower unit because of the dealers mistake. If it were me I'd work something out with the dealer. Probably 1st would be asking the dealer to see what they can do with Merc. If that is a no go then at the least would be have the dealer knock off labor and any mark up the new lower unit. I'm curious what the cost of parts are to repair your old lower unit.

[leechlake]

I'm with Surface Tension. If it were me I'd do some sleuthing and fact finding to see what's really going on. If I found the dealer wasn't double dipping, that Mercury is accurate that this isn't under warranty, and that no other mumbo jumbo is going on I'd pay for the repair but work out discounted deal. I'd assume you won't get all questions answered and if I didn't that would trigger me to pay even less but I'd pay something.

If you get stonewalled then I'd agree and put my guard up and treat them like they are treating you. I'd assume this will be the case and as they make no progress getting payment from you they will dribble out as little information as they think they need to to wear you down.

[Down Deep]

I don't know how many of you people own a business, but I do, and can tell you that mistakes do happen. It is not unreasonable for a business to try and get paid for the work that they have done. It is also likely that the dealer will try to work something out with the customer. I'm sure the Service Manger caught hell from the management. While I personally would not like to hear that I owed over $4k for a repair, I would try to resolve the issue. Suppose that right up front the dealer said that the work would not be covered by warranty or insurance. Would you have scrapped the motor? Eventually, the the dealer is more than likely going to try to collect the money, so you may have a court date in your future. Try to look at this problem from both sides.

Contrary to what the agent told you, damage claims made after a repair has been made is very common. The dealer still has the lower unit which can be examined by an adjuster. You should at least make the insurance company do that. Keep in mind the insurance company has the responsibly to investigate all claims. There have to be damaged parts that can be examined. Over the years I've had several insurance claims and most of the adjusters come out look over the damage and recommend payment. Some of the claims have been post repair and they have been paid because I had documentation. I'm pretty sure the adjuster will be no boat expert and if the dealer can show impact damage the claim will be paid. Then there is the issue of the deductible which will have to be worked out. If the insurance company denies the claim, then I believe its up to the dealer to make their case to Mercury. You are in a good position to negotiate because you have the both your boat and the money. But, if were me, I wouldn't just let this issue fester out there. I'd go in and talk to the owner or General Manager. If you don't want to go to the dealer offer to meet on neutral ground. That way you show good faith in trying to resolve the issue which puts you in a good position should you end up in court.

You say you never hit anything, but it's possible that the lower unit may have hit a log or something and you didn't notice the impact. I've personally had dings on my props that and bent skegs that I had no idea how they got there.

[delcecchi]

Presumably the motor was repaired with a brand new Mercury lower unit.

I think if it had been me and I was told there was a problem with my lower unit and it would cost 4k for a new one, I would first ask if the old one could be fixed, and then I would investigate used or rebuilt ones or even those third party lower units before popping for the factory brand new part.

Does the MN Truth in Repairs law apply to outboard motors?

http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/cars/mncarlaws/mncarlaws_3.asp

Here is the statute, starts at the link and goes on for several sections

Still not clear if it applies to outboards

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=325F.56

[Pherris]

Ok here is where it is at. I did a little research and from what I can tell so far I should not be personally responsible for the bill in my opinion (Other than my deductable portion if it is a valid insurance claim). I am not trying to get a free lower unit. I paid for an extended warranty on my motor to mercury and I paid a premium to my insurance company. The reason I do this is so I am covered in the event of expensive repairs. While it is my opinion that there is some culpability on the dealers part I do not think they should be left holding the bag. If it is truly a warranty issue then mercury should pay. If there is evidence of the issue being a result of impact then the insurance should pay. (Apparently the term" impact hit" does not necessarily mean you hit anything and is used fairly frequently in denied claims by Mercury for lower unit issues. It seems is can be caused by things other than "hitting" something as I discovered searching the internet)

Had this been handled to the letter by the dealer to begin with there would be no issue. (i.e. waiting for approval from mercury before working on the boat or at least contacting me prior to work being done.) The dealer says they did not observe any visible damage to the lower unit and tore it apart to the level they felt they needed to determine if it would be covered. The dealer was of the opinion that there was sufficient grounds to justify a warranty claim so they went ahead with repairs with the assumption it would be covered.

My insurance agent told me to tell the dealer they needed to take it up with Mercury. So I contacted the dealer and told them what my agent said. Needless to say the dealer feels they have the necessary documentation to justify a legitimate insurance claim. So rather than try and referee the situation between my agent and the dealer I gave the dealer my insurance agents name and number and policy number. The dealer said they would contact the agent and follow up as needed. That's where things are as of now. I will post an update when I have one.

[Whoaru99]

Presumably the motor was repaired with a brand new Mercury lower unit.

I think if it had been me and I was told there was a problem with my lower unit and it would cost 4k for a new one, I would first ask if the old one could be fixed, and then I would investigate used or rebuilt ones or even those third party lower units before popping for the factory brand new part.

Does the MN Truth in Repairs law apply to outboard motors?

http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/cars/mncarlaws/mncarlaws_3.asp

Here is the statute, starts at the link and goes on for several sections

Still not clear if it applies to outboards

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=325F.56

Not quite sure what point it is you're trying to illustrate, but to me this reads like if you bring something in and say "fix it", without requesting an estimate, you're on the hook for what "fix it" costs.

The 10% over bit seems to apply only if you had an estimate in the first place.