Posting Land/Handling Trespassers and Neighbors

[Dave S]

Delbert and Timothy Huber were also in the news recently as possible suspects in the disappearance of Jacob Wetterling. The day after an interview with Fox 9, Delbert Huber passed away. There was also something relating to other activities with attempted abductions in the Paynesville area and a tie to the Huber's in that case as well. This was happening at the same time Jacob Wetterling was abducted.

[CaptainMusky]

This whole thread contains an awful lot of reminders and examples of why it's really a good idea to be polite when speaking with others, especially out in the woods... never know... the dudes you're talkin to about who's land your on might turn out to be these dudes:

those are the two "gentlemen" I asked permission to hunt their land. I referenced them in a few previous posts. It could have easily been me or one of you that wound up dead. Lots of nutjobs out there.

[smsmith]

Lots of nutjobs out there.

Yup...be careful out there all you trespassers (legal or not)

[deerminator]

Yep. And if someone confronts you, watch out too. Like that guy who pulled down a ladder stand with a guy in it two years ago in Breezy Point I believe and killed him because he claimed he was trespassing. I would rather have climbed down even if the other guy was in the wrong than dying trying to be right. Not saying that's the case with that guy. Just you can't be sure of what some nut job is going to do. No sense in arguing with someone that might end your life over something so stupid.

[harvey lee]

I guess people have just had it others going on their land. It will continue to only get worse, not correct what has happened to those caught but it will continue .

[delcecchi]

Too many folks with unresolved anger management issues running around.

[brittman]

Oh, yes I do have an issue with having to post land in ND to keep others out, a very big issue with that. It takes me a couple days to post all the fence and gates and the cost is not minimal.

[outdoors247]

With a half mile between signs being legal it shouldn't take that long to post a property unless it's thousands of acres. That ND law sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Also, this is nothing new for ND. I've been hunting up there 30 years and it's always been enforced like it is now.

[hockeybc69]

One thing I wondered for the ND rule...... what if the gate isnt on the roadway?

What if they fence it in, but own an adjoining property and the gate is back off the road and you cant see the gate from a roadway?

I choose to just stay off any land that is fenced,,,,, even if its not posted anywhere in sight.... Sure seems like common sense....

[harvey lee]

Yes, the 880 yards is correct, I post every 100 yards as the 880 does not get the job done. When I talked with the Game and Fish. Few months back they told me all gates and corner posts. In some ares we have, one could not see a sign if they are 880 yards apart so wo go every 100, just to make sure they see the posted signs. But even with that posted every 100 yards, some still say we never saw a sign. Once everything is posted, job is never done as some will rip off a corner of a sign and then they are legal to walk in as unposed land. If one spot the size of a dime is missing from any part of the sign, even if it had no writing on it, then not posted legally, got that from the local CO when I had him out processing a trespassing charge.

[smsmith]

If one spot the size of a dime is missing from any part of the sign, even if it had no writing on it, then not posted legally, got that from the local CO when I had him out processing a trespassing charge.

That's just friggin' stupid. What...is Fish and Game getting a kickback from the sign manufacturers?

[brittman]

Yes, the 880 yards is correct, I post every 100 yards as the 880 does not get the job done. When I talked with the Game and Fish. Few months back they told me all gates and corner posts. In some ares we have, one could not see a sign if they are 880 yards apart so wo go every 100, just to make sure they see the posted signs. But even with that posted every 100 yards, some still say we never saw a sign. Once everything is posted, job is never done as some will rip off a corner of a sign and then they are legal to walk in as unposed land. If one spot the size of a dime is missing from any part of the sign, even if it had no writing on it, then not posted legally, got that from the local CO when I had him out processing a trespassing charge.

If your fence is continuous - you only need to post the gate. That is all they do in the badlands of ND.

Wyndmere CO Tim Phalen said this ? I really doubt it.

The fact that you are over posting would mean they would have to run around tear off part of every sign.

In parts of ND they use metal signs.

In the end much of your problem maybe a few locals who know you are a nonresident landowner and take a risk at "fence jumping" or if your land is near the Sandhills National Grassland ... wondering across. Not right, but ....

[brittman]

More ND code:

Quote:

Hunting on posted lands without permission from the owner or tenant is illegal and punishable by suspension of hunting, fishing and trapping privileges for a period of at least one year.

Hunting on posted lands without permission can be prosecuted even if the land is not posted to the letter of the law.

Seems your CO is somewhat misguided.

[delcecchi]

More ND code:

Quote:

Hunting on posted lands without permission from the owner or tenant is illegal and punishable by suspension of hunting, fishing and trapping privileges for a period of at least one year.

Hunting on posted lands without permission can be prosecuted even if the land is not posted to the letter of the law.

Seems your CO is somewhat misguided.

Cynical interpretation. CO doesn't want to ticket his neighbors to protect some packsacker's land unless he really has to. If he can blow smoke, everybody happy (except you )

[BLACKJACK]

I have come across posted land that I knew for a fact was not private property. People do this from time to time. This is why the law requires a legible signature and contact information on the posting. For this reason, if I come across a sign that says I'm entering private property, I will not take it seriously if there's no signature and contact information with it.

Thats the kind of attitude that pizzes landowners off and makes them say no to all hunters!!!!

I'll bet land being posted by non-owners is a very small percentage of the land posted yet you're using that as an excuse to trespass, even when owners have posted their land but haven't dotted every I and crossed every T.

Are you really any better than all the other trespassers??

If there are 'No trespassing' signs up, but they aren't 100% correct, that landowner obviously cares whos on the land, and their WILL be a confrontation if they catch you - is that what you want?? If you suspect that they aren't legitimate, take the high road, be a good hunter, contact the landowner and find out.

[BLACKJACK]

Yes, the 880 yards is correct, I post every 100 yards as the 880 does not get the job done. When I talked with the Game and Fish. Few months back they told me all gates and corner posts. In some ares we have, one could not see a sign if they are 880 yards apart so wo go every 100, just to make sure they see the posted signs. But even with that posted every 100 yards, some still say we never saw a sign. Once everything is posted, job is never done as some will rip off a corner of a sign and then they are legal to walk in as unposed land. If one spot the size of a dime is missing from any part of the sign, even if it had no writing on it, then not posted legally, got that from the local CO when I had him out processing a trespassing charge.

This is one of my pet peeves with the MN DNR and Fish and wildlife Service, they'll spend $400,000+ on a piece of land but then go cheap on the signs, they should post enough signs so that you can see the next one. Not a problem on big square pieces of land but when they start meandering around ponds and thru woodlots, its awful easy to get over the boundary.

Good fences and good signage makes for good neighbors!!!

[BobT]

Thats the kind of attitude that pizzes landowners off and makes them say no to all hunters!!!!

I'll bet land being posted by non-owners is a very small percentage of the land posted yet you're using that as an excuse to trespass, even when owners have posted their land but haven't dotted every I and crossed every T.

Are you really any better than all the other trespassers??

If there are 'No trespassing' signs up, but they aren't 100% correct, that landowner obviously cares whos on the land, and their WILL be a confrontation if they catch you - is that what you want?? If you suspect that they aren't legitimate, take the high road, be a good hunter, contact the landowner and find out.

How does one do that when the landowner doesn't include his contact information as prescribed by law? Let me take you out into the north woods miles from anywhere and see how easily you can find the owner of the property for me. That might help.

Is it really that difficult for the property owner to add a little information to make it possible to identify himself? Where I deer hunt there is a lot of public land and unposted private land and a fence is almost unheard of. In fact, there is not much that is posted at all and since posted land is a rare instance and I have personally encountered what I knew to be illegally posted land (e.g., public land posted illegally) the potential is a lot higher than you might think. I'm not talking about central MN where property lines are easily identified by fence rows. I'm talking about places like this. What you see are about 100 square miles of nothing but forest with very few people.

[smsmith]

I've kept this thread in mind as I've been driving around central and westcentral MN. I see plenty of posted signs...but I'd bet less than 5% of them have legible signatures or other personal information. I guess if I'm one of the sticklers for details there's ALL KINDS of property for me to go trespass on.

How about this for a common sense policy? If there's posted signs, old or new, signed or unsigned....stay the he!! off that property. Seems like a really good idea to me. For those less averse to likely armed confrontation...go for it.

[NWKR]

It took a few minutes but I looked at block of over 6 sq miles north of Long Lake from the middle of BobT's aerial. It had no fields and only some logging trails and dirt roads. I found this webpage pretty quickly:

http://gis.stlouiscountymn.gov/planningflexviewers/County_Explorer/

It was easy enough to tell where the approximate property boundaries were relative to roads and other landmarks. Of the 2,500+ acres I looked at only a few 100 was private land. Shouldn't be too hard to stay off of the private land. But there were some 20s or 40s of private land in the middle of huge blocks of public land. I have a hard time buying the excuse of land posted illegally being more than pretty rare. Sure it might be a 40 here or there, but anyone who is a big enough d bag to post public land won't take the time to update signs on a large parcel of land.

[NWKR]

I've kept this thread in mind as I've been driving around central and westcentral MN. I see plenty of posted signs...but I'd bet less than 5% of them have legible signatures or other personal information. I guess if I'm one of the sticklers for details there's ALL KINDS of property for me to go trespass on.

How about this for a common sense policy? If there's posted signs, old or new, signed or unsigned....stay the he!! off that property. Seems like a really good idea to me. For those less averse to likely armed confrontation...go for it.

I have noticed the same thing in south central MN, I see very few signs. When a fence row is 10 yards wide and grown in with trees and brush it isn't ag land so its open for some pheasant hunting. I can follow the fence row to the back side of a field that has a nice swamp and patch of trees, and can do some deer hunting there as long as that isn't posted. A lot of land to hunt around here, not sure why people complain about not having places to hunt

[BLACKJACK]

I've kept this thread in mind as I've been driving around central and westcentral MN. I see plenty of posted signs...but I'd bet less than 5% of them have legible signatures or other personal information. I guess if I'm one of the sticklers for details there's ALL KINDS of property for me to go trespass on.

Since this post came out I've been studying 'No Hunt/No Trespass' signs, I have yet to see one thats dated. Some have name and phone number but not all. I guess it boils down to your own ethics and whether you want to be confronted by a landowner.

I think there is also a big difference between large tracks of land up north and relatively ag land in the rest of the state but I think both the landowner and the hunters have some responsibility, the landowner to put out enough visible signs that a hunter can find them, meaning more in thick areas, and the hunter should be responsible enough to try and obey them, whether they are 100% correct or not. If the landowner puts out signs that means he doesn't want you on his land!!!

[BobT]

Since this post came out I've been studying 'No Hunt/No Trespass' signs, I have yet to see one thats dated. Some have name and phone number but not all. I guess it boils down to your own ethics and whether you want to be confronted by a landowner.

I think there is also a big difference between large tracks of land up north and relatively ag land in the rest of the state but I think both the landowner and the hunters have some responsibility, the landowner to put out enough visible signs that a hunter can find them, meaning more in thick areas, and the hunter should be responsible enough to try and obey them, whether they are 100% correct or not. If the landowner puts out signs that means he doesn't want you on his land!!!

The difficulty where I hunt is that it's not always easy to determine who the land owner is. There are tracts of land that are just that with no visible building site or borders and when you encounter a posting it may or may not be valid. Having the landowner's contact information on the signs makes it possible for me to get in touch and ask permission. Without this information, I don't even know for sure the area truly is private land. There are also times when I've found myself on private land that was not adequately marked. I had crossed the border without my knowledge until I came upon the back side of the signs. If it is so important to the landowner that I stay off his land, it would seem he has to take some responsibility to be sure I know where his land is.

[nofishfisherman]

The difficulty where I hunt is that it's not always easy to determine who the land owner is. There are tracts of land that are just that with no visible building site or borders and when you encounter a posting it may or may not be valid. Having the landowner's contact information on the signs makes it possible for me to get in touch and ask permission. Without this information, I don't even know for sure the area truly is private land.

Don't you have a Plat book to reference? That is the exact purpose of a plat book.

I hunt all public land and the plat book is always in my car when I am out scouting or hunting. I may not know if the borders are exactly correct but in 30 seconds I can tell if the land is actually private or if someone illegally posted public land. The book also gives the owners name. With a little research I've been able to find and contact land owners in the past with nothing more than the info provided in the Plat book.

If I do come across public land that I know for a fact has been illegally posted then I assume that some sort of jack wagon must be on the land and I want nothing to do with them. I'm certainly not looking for a confrontation with people who are more than likely carrying guns. Let the CO handle the situation, thats what he's paid for.

[mntatonka]

There's a good chance that everything you could need is here: http://www.mngeo.state.mn.us/cty_contacts.html

Or search google for the county mn followed by GIS. Such as "Cook County mn gis". The maps should show property lines and owners, although they do tend to be a little cumbersome.

Another option is Hunt GPS maps (http://www.huntinggpsmaps.com/). They have a pretty decent program that works on computers, mobile devices, and GPS as well.

[NWKR]

The difficulty where I hunt is that it's not always easy to determine who the land owner is. There are tracts of land that are just that with no visible building site or borders and when you encounter a posting it may or may not be valid. Having the landowner's contact information on the signs makes it possible for me to get in touch and ask permission. Without this information, I don't even know for sure the area truly is private land. There are also times when I've found myself on private land that was not adequately marked. I had crossed the border without my knowledge until I came upon the back side of the signs. If it is so important to the landowner that I stay off his land, it would seem he has to take some responsibility to be sure I know where his land is.

Did you try to look at the link I posted?

http://gis.stlouiscountymn.gov/planningflexviewers/County_Explorer/

It takes 15 minutes to get a list of land owners for a few 1,000 acre area. Approximate property lines are overlayed over a google earth type image.

Also just an FYI for everyone; a 40 that was in the area I selected has the owner name as "Legion of Doom" probably a good idea to stay away from that one.

[nofishfisherman]

I think this all shows that there are plenty of tools available to help you determine what land is public and private.

When you see posted land there really is no excuse that allows you to claim that you didn't know who owned it or if it was really private land.

A good rule of thumb is that if you see posted land just assume that it really is private land and stay off. You'll be correct far more often.

[harvey lee]

Brittman states--Wyndmere CO Tim Phalen said this ? I really doubt it.

The last time I had Tim out for a trespasser, he had to check the signs in the area the trespasser were and asked to see all the posted signs, when we went to the third gate, Tim looked at this sign and said Tom, this sign has a small piece missing from the corner and if the guy who you are charging brings this up if he crossed by this sign, he will more than likely get off. Tim had to get the GPS cords of all the posted signs in the location for the court trial.

So I said next time I call you, make sure I get out there and check all the signs for their condition before I call you. Tim said I did not say for you to do that but you can do what you want to.

I know this sounds crazy Brittman but, this is exactly what he said.

if you cannot believe me, call Tim and asked him if he told Tom Hatlestad at the CP ranch this. if you need his phone number for his cell, PM me and I will PM back with his number. Tell Tim this was from approx. 2 years ago.

Tim also told me it is very hard to convict for trespass in North Dakota with the laws as written.

I am not making any of this up, all factual.

[BobT]

My point is that you're all expecting me to go out of my way to enable the landowners to avoid following the rules. The law is clear about how to post private property. I am a property owner and if I want to post it I will post it according to the rules. If I don't then I must approach the trespasser and ask them to leave and I will be sure to be pleasant about it even if it happens to be one of you guys. The law does not say that every hunter must obtain a plat book and seek out landowners. The law is also clear that land not legally posted is open to public hunting. If I am asked to stay off of someone's private property, the law says I must oblige and I will do just that. There's no reason for the land owner to be belligerent about it, just plainly inform me that I on private property and to kindly stay off. It's not that difficult and he won't get any flack from me for doing so. I respect his right to privacy. Plat maps don't provide GPS coordinate data to follow either so when I'm two miles from anything in the forest, that plat map is of no value beyond fire starter.

At this I guess I'm just going to have disagree and leave it at that.

[deerminator]

The law in Minnesota?

From DNR Regulation book:

"Any entry onto private property without permission is considered trespass." Regardless of no trespassing signs.

[CaptainMusky]

The law in Minnesota?

From DNR Regulation book:

"Any entry onto private property without permission is considered trespass." Regardless of no trespassing signs.

yep that's what scrambles my brain about how some here think its "legal" to trespass because it isn't posted or "legally" posted. Its clear to me from the regs. Some people just need to READ them.