Why so negative?

[jentz]

The DNR estimates 80-90 thousand boats of hook and liners fish the lake each year that includes ice shacks.I asked the DNR this question thats how I got 80-90 thou boats ice shacks per year .

Lets say each of those boats and ice shacks have 2 people aboard.Each of those 2 people catch 2 fish each 4 per boat/iceshack 80,000 x 4=320000 fish taken then lets say each fish weights 1.5 lbs 320,000 X 1.5 =480,000 lbs of fish taken.Now where are all those precious walleyes going??

Every wants to state what they say are facts,Just common sense with the above numbers outweighs any unproven facts.If the netting were hurting the lake it would be shut down.However with all the new fish finders GPS its hook and liners who should take notice and start to look inward and realize their the problem along with the changing lake zeebs,spinys invasives

[northender]

The DNR estimates 80-90 thousand boats of hook and liners fish the lake each year that includes ice shacks.I asked the DNR this question thats how I got 80-90 thou boats ice shacks per year .

Lets say each of those boats and ice shacks have 2 people aboard.Each of those 2 people catch 2 fish each 4 per boat/iceshack 80,000 x 4=320000 fish taken then lets say each fish weights 1.5 lbs 320,000 X 1.5 =480,000 lbs of fish taken.Now where are all those precious walleyes going??

Every wants to state what they say are facts,Just common sense with the above numbers outweighs any unproven facts.If the netting were hurting the lake it would be shut down.However with all the new fish finders GPS its hook and liners who should take notice and start to look inward and realize their the problem along with the changing lake zeebs,spinys invasives

You're numbers are exactly in line with what has gone on for decades at Mille Lacs by hook and line anglers. Long before Treaty Harvest management was forced onto the scene. The lake was fine according to your Mn. DNR numbers in every aspect of the fishery. So what is your point? What actually was changed or added to a lake that was fine, that created the crash? Your historical hook and line harvest numbers that have been in place as far back as DNR records go? Or just maybe...??

ALL the PROVEN facts, not just selective facts need to be part of your analysis to hold any weight--right? Like you say--"common sense".

[leech~~]

You're numbers are exactly in line with what has gone on for decades at Mille Lacs by hook and line anglers. Long before Treaty Harvest management was forced onto the scene. The lake was fine according to your Mn. DNR numbers in every aspect of the fishery. So what is your point? What actually was changed or added to a lake that was fine, that created the crash? Your historical hook and line harvest numbers that have been in place as far back as DNR records go? Or just maybe...??

ALL the PROVEN facts, not just selective facts need to be part of your analysis to hold any weight--right? Like you say--"common sense".

northender, you and I think very closely on the same lines of this issue.

The whole key to any lake is Breeders, Breeders, Breeders! If you take them out, the lake is done!

[FowlSki]

The whole key to any lake is Breeders, Breeders, Breeders! If you take them out, the lake is done!

There are TONS of breeders in Mille Lacs. That is not the issue. Lately, there are also lots of eaters. The lake is on the rebound. Maybe you should quit whining on forums and go fish so you can see the facts.

Thanks for the report Walleye Farm

[northender]

There are TONS of breeders in Mille Lacs. That is not the issue. Lately, there are also lots of eaters. The lake is on the rebound. Maybe you should quit whining on forums and go fish so you can see the facts.

Thanks for the report Walleye Farm

[CaptainMusky]

Again, as I have pointed out countless times here, studies show that less than 10 percent of fish caught in a net in the spring by the DNR crews for tagging purposes, get caught and harvested the same year they are tagged. So how can a netted fish by Tribal nets be any different?

Please elaborate on this point. How do they know? What is the basis for the 10%? Is it because these fish would be in the slot and could not be harvested?

Are they basing it on not receiving reports from anglers of the tagged fish? Well, how many people call with that info? Not many.

[CaptainMusky]

northender, you and I think very closely on the same lines of this issue.

The whole key to any lake is Breeders, Breeders, Breeders! If you take them out, the lake is done!

I agree to a point, but I think the last many years the extremely HIGH population of large adult fish has largely contributed to this problem. Breeders are good, but in moderation. :-)

[RiverChuckNorris]

If the netting were hurting the lake it would be shut down.

Kind of like it got shut down on URL? Lol.

You can always count on the government to be proactive and effective.....

[CaptainMusky]

It wasn't just the netting that killed Red. Ask anyone who lives there what happened and it was far from the sole reason.

[northender]

It wasn't just the netting that killed Red. Ask anyone who lives there what happened and it was far from the sole reason.

LOL Hook and line anglers that have never fished more than about 25 percent of the combined two lakes (Upper and Lower) were hard on the fishery? Let's hear the stats--nets versus creel surveys. Yup--the guys that live up there and work up there will always try and sell that to insure no enemies are made in the area.

LOL Maybe not the "sole" reason? 5th grade math?

[delcecchi]

"in 1837 but keep in mind netting has always been part of the native american heritage. "

And lol, in 1837 the other citizens got their fish at the local fish market along the shores of Minnesota lakes---let alone Mille Lacs? Back then, subsistence hunting and fishing was away of life for all. It was a part of YOUR heritage and mine as well. Public hangings were too. Let's ALL justify doing this and that today based on our "heritage"...LOL

The rest of us could net if we (collectively) decided to allow ourselves to do so. Nothing is stopping it. DNR or the legislature could set a netting season and quota, issue permits, and allow netting up to some quota. Now the bands get their share by whatever method they choose, and "we" could get our share by the same methods.

Would that make you happy?

[leech~~]

The rest of us could net if we (collectively) decided to allow ourselves to do so. Nothing is stopping it. DNR or the legislature could set a netting season and quota, issue permits, and allow netting up to some quota. Now the bands get their share by whatever method they choose, and "we" could get our share by the same methods.

Would that make you happy?

Del, I think we all would be happy if we could share the resource evenly and there would enough fish for all, like there use to be.

[CaptainMusky]

Share the resource "evenly"? Need you be reminded of the harvest quotas for bands vs hook and line?

You can't even make the stuff up you guys are arguing.

[CaptainMusky]

LOL Hook and line anglers that have never fished more than about 25 percent of the combined two lakes (Upper and Lower) were hard on the fishery? Let's hear the stats--nets versus creel surveys. Yup--the guys that live up there and work up there will always try and sell that to insure no enemies are made in the area.

LOL Maybe not the "sole" reason? 5th grade math?

I would certainly trust their assessment about what happened to the lake than someone such as yourself who clearly has an agenda.

[PurpleFloyd]

Del, I think we all would be happy if we could share the resource evenly and there would enough fish for all, like there use to be.

What is the harvest limit for each side?

[Big Dave2]

I'm certainly not going to turn this into a peeing contest and split hairs about what "intent" there was in 1837 but keep in mind netting has always been part of the native american heritage. I am of the belief that there was indeed intent to provide the native Americans rights above those of the rest because of their cultural heritage. Right wrong or otherwise that is why it was explicitly written into the treaty if it wasn't then why bother with a treaty?

For the most part I agree with this but if the bands can't figure out that their cash cow is the casino and tourism then I say let them deplete the resource and see what happens when the tourists quit showing up. I would think they could make way more money by catering to fishermen and creating good will by voluntarily ending the netting. Money talks so maybe if fishermen stop going there the tribes will finally understand.

[Big Dave2]

Who cares? If its all about the meat stay home and buy from the store.

What's it about for you then, bragging rights?

[delcecchi]

For the most part I agree with this but if the bands can't figure out that their cash cow is the casino and tourism then I say let them deplete the resource and see what happens when the tourists quit showing up. I would think they could make way more money by catering to fishermen and creating good will by voluntarily ending the netting. Money talks so maybe if fishermen stop going there the tribes will finally understand.

Aren't there 8 bands netting on Mille Lacs, only one of which has tourism interests in the area? And aren't relations between the Wisconsin bands and the man sort of rocky?

[PurpleFloyd]

Hey, thanks for the fishing report! It's just your feelings on what the rest of us should do about how we want to handle the issue that is a problem. Not everyone wants to just back off and sit on the side lines and let the lake keep getting raped!

Jesus and some of his disciples were gill netters. Seems like they turned out OK.

[PurpleFloyd]

LOL --"tons" are dying fast of old age and being caught numerous times in recent years--that sir, is an "issue". 70-80 percent less adult walleyes in the lake compared to historical levels is an "issue". Your tonnage is around 500K pounds nowadays. Historically, it was around 2 million pounds?? The "eaters" ( 10-12 inchers from last years spawn and a few between 14-16 from the previous year) in any decent amount of numbers (still very small year classes compared to historical numbers but high numbers compared to the past 5-6 years) are several years away from spawning--if they are not killed by gill-nets in the process of growing to that ripe age.

You can live in denial, fish all you want, and push for no change or simply do nothing--then look in the mirror years down the road and admit change was and is needed. Would Leech Lake be where it is today if your take led the way the past 10-12 years?

What is your opinion on water clarity, changes in temperature,vegetation and the impact on populations due to the increase in apex predators in the lake?

[Stick in Mud]

Ha! That's got bumper sticker written all over it.

[pushbutton]

Now if we could just incorporate "stick people" into that equation....would for sure be a money maker.

[river rat316]

What is the harvest limit for each side?

we have always got around double what the natives got, but hey that's not fair enough for some

[PurpleFloyd]

"Dead fish don't spawn whether they are killed in April or August!"

You are right and I have said that countless times here.

But that only works if you can show and prove the fish killed in a gill net in April will be killed the same year by hook and line anglers. Again, as I have pointed out countless times here, studies show that less than 10 percent of fish caught in a net in the spring by the DNR crews for tagging purposes, get caught and harvested the same year they are tagged. So how can a netted fish by Tribal nets be any different? Obviously, 90 percent or more of the gill netted fish would survive based on documented studies, more than a year and many multiple years, spawning multiple springs adding countless more YOY to the system --if not killed in a tribal gill net. At a 1.8 lb. average, Tribal gill netted DEAD fish add up to 100's of thousands of walleyes over the past 15 years.

Again, you are right--"Dead fish don't spawn whether they are killed in April or August!"--IF the fish is killed in the same year by either hook and line anglers or gill nets. Again--over 90 percent of the netted fish would NOT be killed the same year if not gill netted and killed by Band nets. That is not debatable. That is documented by many years of DNR records.

This doesn't make any sense. How can you relate the netting done by the DNR in a study to the netting done by the tribes for harvest?

The harvest regulation is set to control the number of POUNDS of walleyes harvested,not how many were released and caught again.

The netting is not hurting the population any more than hook and line and actually probably less because with the net they are keeping every fish until the quota is reached and then they stop.

With hook and line many fish are caught and thrown back and a percentage of those will die and go to waste or at least are not available to breed or harvest again.

But in the end they are regulating harvest by the pound and it doesn't matter whether they are removed by hook,net or by sticking your head in the water and grabbing them like you are bobbing for Apple's. A pound of dead fish is a pound of dead fish.

[Mr.Seaguar]

Jesus and some of his disciples were gill netters. Seems like they turned out OK.

The only reason they turned out OK was because they stopped netting. "...immediately they left their nets and followed Him" Matthew 4:20

[PurpleFloyd]

Jesus and some of his disciples were gill netters. Seems like they turned out OK.

[Willy]

In my opinion, the collapse of the perch fishery/population has/had more to do with the troubles of Mille Lacs than anything else. The early 2000's through today, mostly the fish of Mille Lacs have been starving, easy to catch, etc.

Boat after boat catching 30-60 fish a day for years took its toll as much or more than the nets.

I haven't fished the lake for 40 years or anything, but remember back in the 90's and before I'm sure, there were plenty of perch to go around. The walleye fishing was also much tougher. Not everyone and their brother could go out and just maylay the walleyes like they can now. Each boat and fishhouse catching tons and tons of starving fish and tossing them back was hard on the lake I think.

Also, I don't what it will take for some to figure it out, but in my opinion, the only way to fix the lake will be a cooperative effort from the State/DNR/Anglers and the tribe. Fighting against each other will help nothing. Lawsuits, PERM, whining on websites, fellergy's fishing fund. None of it will help unless you can get the band on your side. Legislative types and/or the DNR will never take a stand against the natives. I know it sucks, but that is just the way it is.

Take Red as an example. Band + State = fixed lake.

Mille Lacs = Fight + more fight = still broken lake.

[herm]

I agree with Walleye Farm's opening post and Willy's assessment about perch.

That said, I would respectfully suggest to HotSpot web masters that they create a single thread labeled "Lake Management Ideas" (or similar) within the Mille Lacs thread so users who want to discuss that issue can click there and people wanting to talk just fishing Mille Lacs can read the other posts.

Thanks in advance for considering this suggestion.

[Big Dave2]

Aren't there 8 bands netting on Mille Lacs, only one of which has tourism interests in the area?

Just my opinion and I could be completely wrong but I would think it would be worth it for the Mille Lacs band to share some of the casino proceeds in return for these other bands to stop netting. I would think that in the long run it would be well worth it for all parties involved but I might be wrong.

[leech~~]

Jesus and some of his disciples were gill netters. Seems like they turned out OK.

Well, they really did need the meat, didn't have a store to go to and didn't have a Casino to fall back on!