New Regs?

[Bandersnatch]

Ok. So you agree an uninterrupted spawn would be beneficial. BTW, I like Canadian Club not grape or cherry.

Yes, and I also agree that closing the season would add to the "uninterrupted" cycle.

Why?

Because a Dead Fish can not spawn.

(apparently that is a difficult concept to grasp)

[GravelBar]

A decent amount of biggots on these boards.. But thats a whole other discussion.

To say one group of people i.e. native american are responsible for the decline of mille lacs is just plain dumb. Their harvest weight is figured into the yearly harvest limit which is less than the total weight for hook and line. It was mentioned by walleye18 that the decline in mille lacs started when netting began, it would be interesting to see the total number of logged fishing hours per year since netting began. Just a guess but i'm sure the hook and line pressure and hours has risen yearly with the popularity of the big pond.. which would also effect the lake. To just say one group is responsible is just an excuse to pass the blame. Maybe it's time to start looking in the mirror..

[GravelBar]

A decent amount of biggots on these boards.. But thats a whole other discussion.

To say one group of people i.e. native american are responsible for the decline of mille lacs is just plain dumb. Their harvest weight is figured into the yearly harvest limit which is less than the total weight for hook and line. It was mentioned by walleye18 that the decline in mille lacs started when netting began, it would be interesting to see the total number of logged fishing hours per year since netting began. Just a guess but i'm sure the hook and line pressure and hours has risen yearly with the popularity of the big pond.. which would also effect the lake. To just say one group is responsible is just an excuse to pass the blame. Maybe it's time to start looking in the mirror..

[MN Musky]

That is exactly where we are heading. And it will probably help the system. But I guarantee you, that if the lake closes.....the nets still get wet.

[ozzie]

to the guy that believes nets only catch fish in or around the slot hasn't been at the landing when they are cleaning the days catch.

there is no one to blame specifically as we all contributed to the decline...that is a fact!!

And to the DNR's numbers that were being referenced in the pioneer press none of those numbers are actual as they are all guesstamations as not all anglers catches are weighed, not all nets are weighed and every fish that is pressumed dead from hooking mortality isn't weighed. The numbers are a bunch of talk that can be skewed any way they would want them to be.

[loadmaster]

I also believe the numbers are guesses but you have to start somewhere and go from there. I would be impossible to get a weight that is exact. Do you have any numbers that could be referenced?

Not sure how they come up with those numbers. I am assuming it is thru creel census dnr boat checks, a report by the netters. They then just plug those numbers into some kind of formula and BAM that is the results. Be interesting to find out how they do it.

[RumRiverRat]

We have a dual citizenship to both the U.S.A. and to our tribes. The rules we follow are set for ourselves just as a state can. Our being separate was a result of the govt. treating us as individual sovereign nations. These treaties trump state law. It is not any different than one state have legalized pot, or gay marriage, casinos. We have only been afforded the same rights as full citizens in the last 90 years. Not all at once either. Some limited citizenship was granted in the 1920's and again in the 1940's. My grandfathers were both in the Army in WWII and neither were citizens when they joined. The U.S. then came up Termination in the 50's and some tribes lost federal recognition. They also brought on the relocation era where the BIA moved natives from their reservations to large metro areas where they thought they would assimilate. My paternal grandparents were relocated from Red Lake to Dallas. They went home after about a year. In the 60's through the 80's there was widespread forced sterilization at the hands of the Indian Health Service. Sucky govt. policy huh? In 1978 the American Indian Freedom of Religion Act was passed so they it was legal for us to openly practice our religions. That same year the Indian Child Welfare Act was passed. It made it possible for people to stop taking our children from us. During most of this several generations of our children were taken from us totally against our will. My mother and her grandmother were taken away from their parents. Kind of a crappy govt. policy wasn't it. To have your children removed for no other reason other than we were Indian. Do you see why we want to hold onto what we have left?

What does this have to do with fishing?

What does this have to do with dumping 1000s of pounds of fish illegally on private property?

Is it just more poor me I was persecuted and should be able to harvest more fish than non natives?

What frauds many of the natives are.

The Natives and the DNR are responsible for this mess.

[ozzie]

RRR- He was responding to a question I had regarding if members of the sovergn nations also have the right to vote for the USA president and I thank him for his answer. You don't always have to be so standoffish on issues...relax a little!!

[GravelBar]

I'm giving up on convincing anybody that giving up netting and spearing rights and becoming equal with the rest of the citizens of the state of Minnesota is what the tribes should do. We'll soon learn the additional lakes the tribes will start spearing and the fishing on these lakes will suffer. Just like the lakes in Wisconsin. We will have special regulations for these lakes and additional cost to post these special regulation and to enforce these special regulation. Since it's the federal government standing in the way and preventing the state from stopping this from happening we need to do one of two items.

First sue the federal government for not only the additional cost to enforce the special regulations but also cost to help support the businesses that will be forced out of business and the individuals who land value will drop due to spearing and netting.

Should we lose this case then the only option we have is to open state run casinos. We could and should open state run casinos in Elk River, Forest Lake, Shakopee, Duluth, Rochester, and downtown Minneapolis. This way we aren't picking on one tribe's for additional income, no they're all paying for it. Whoever allowed these casinos to open without paying state taxes needs to be ran out of state on a rail.

[Getanet]

Option 3 would be to go fish the other 10K+ lakes in MN and quit whining.

[GravelBar]

Not Whining.I'm tired of being treated like a second class citizen in the state I was born in and love.

[RumRiverRat]

RRR- He was responding to a question I had regarding if members of the sovergn nations also have the right to vote for the USA president and I thank him for his answer. You don't always have to be so standoffish on issues...relax a little!!

He may have answered your question. But there is a lot of entitlement thinking in his response.

[maxpower17]

The biggest problem now is that I'm running low on popcorn. Hope I don't miss anything. It's just getting good.

[Gordie]

Yes, and I also agree that closing the season would add to the "uninterrupted" cycle.

Why?

Because a Dead Fish can not spawn.

(apparently that is a difficult concept to grasp)

All those dead fish in July and August from hooking mortality can't spawn either. What about closing it then?

[gemNeyeJoe]

I don't need to chime in with my opinion.... But is the night ban in effect for opener weekend? If the ice will even be off...

[GravelBar]

All those dead fish in July and August from hooking mortality can't spawn either. What about closing it then?

[MN Musky]

Then decimate that fishery. Then move again. Then again. What is wrong with loyalty to a lake? Trying to find a sustainable balance? Nothing personal, but I cant stand that " move on to another lake " mentality. Just like the jerks who leave their trash and just move on the other 10,000 lakes. I love the lake, good, bad, and ugly.

[laportian]

Wow this turned productive didn't it. The usual suspects dropping their arm chair sociologist rants. The racists and the misinformed spewing their usual nuggets of opinionated knowledge. I'm guilty as charged too. Sorry to those truly I offended. The others can "Suck it Trebek!"

Gravel, Willy F., Rum, etc. I am only trying to show the view from the other side. Those of you that truly don't like Natives and don't care of our plight than so be it. I can only state that we have some rights that are inherent and I get it that you are hurt over this. I make no apologies though. Our land, our lives, our children, our ceremonies, our language; what else can you take? That is all I am trying to convey guys.

[RumRiverRat]

Keeping 10 walleyes is your inherent right?

The plight of your people?

What about the millions in tax free casino money Native American tribes enjoy?

[Gordie]

And those 10 Walleyes per day with no size restriction members of the tribe are allowed daily in July and August can't spawn ether.

At least they are being put in the frying pan, while the other ones are dying so that a slot fish can be caught and fried.

[laportian]

Man you are a happy camper aren't you?

Um the Mille Lacs Band has the right to set the rules for bag limits and seasons for their members just as Minnesota sets limits for you. Do you get that? I'll let you in on one Rum. You are lucky Mille Lacs sets a limit. Red Lake has a hundred a day limit for its members and Leech Lake has no limits on the amount of fish I can take.

What of the tax free money. Do your part and don't gamble if you have a problem with it.

[slammer]

Just read this whole thread. Very interesting. Some questions that come to mind:

Why do you only hear about hooking mortality from Mille Lacs? What about LOW, Leech, Winnie, Red, Ottertail, etc. Surley the problem exists on these waters also?

History says the lake has ups and downs. Presently the lake is at an all time low. Do you think it would be this low if netting was never allowed? A lot you blame the high number of large predator fish that assumeably are the problem. How many of those large predators were around 20,30, or 40 years ago? Does the DNR have info that far back to compare? The lake could have had many more of them in the past due to less fishing pressure and yet the numbers were never as low as now. I find it hard to agree big fish are the problem.

Where in the USA (or the world) is netting by a certain group of individuals ( other than commercial) allowed?

Who helps the businesses and local economy when they fail? Gov. pours money into a black hole but when small business needs help, well, another story.

I agree with others on here that all men are created equal. Why cant I net?

I have never spent a dime in a casino in MN and never will. They already get more than enough of my tax dollars.

[gregg52]

[

At least they are being put in the frying pan, while the other ones are dying so that a slot fish can be caught and fried.

hmmmm i would question that how many are in ditches sold garbage etc

please dont say I'm un informed or something stupid like that

Why cant i put 10 in the frying pan

[Gordie]

Why cant i put 10 in the frying pan

Might wanna ask the ones that make the rules to we are to follow Gregg. Oh and I will be able to put 10 pike in the frying pan this winter and that makes me happy!

[theiceman]

Gill-nets, gill-nets, gill-nets, isn't there a better option of the net out their? Why can't they go to a net like the DNR uses up on the whitefish chain for milking walleyes. The walleyes go into a big holding net and pick the size you want, and that way you don't kill muskies and northerns. Personally I like to see a quotas set and just stay the same year after year after year, just because the population is up one year shouldn't mean they get to take or we get to take so many extra fish.

[thatoneguy]

Dead fish don't spawn, on that we can agree.

Hook and line anglers kill far more walleyes than netters, this we know.

And the problem isn't even that spawning is unsuccessful, but that they aren't surviving to maturity.

And yet there are goobers who insist the nets are the problem.

[amateurfishing]

stop the equal liberties dump haters. our fore fathers agreed to terms (and now laws) with certain members of the population that our side of the population enforces through our state and/or local law enforcement bodies. Quite simply put, if you don't like it, attempt to help change it or leave, or have the mental aptitude to chose another one of the over 10,000 lakes to fish on. Some can be so stubborn and self righteous sometimes. Lets always blame those who were here first and their special privileges cause we don't think its fair. GET OVER IT!!

Im no expert but would guess summer heat, hooking mortality, unlawful citizens (like the 80 year old caught with a freezer full of walleyes last summer), too many larger fish in unbalanced ecosystem, etc are more harmful. personally I believe get rid a few of the larger fish, everyone gets their 2 limit & your are done, hit the quota earlier and close it down.

its pretty easy folks, either you are part of the problem or part of the solution.

side note: this night fishing ban, is it strictly for walleyes (so you could fish for northern or anything else in dark) or will the lake be completely closed to boats @ dark for any fishing and including pleasure boating also?

[MN Musky]

How is it possible to say the spawn is successful? Sure there are fry being created. However , not enough fry to result in successful recruitment to adulthood. More fry = more recruitment. Nature has figured this out. Millions eggs /fry result in a fraction of adults. There is simply not enough fry given the current lake system to result in adequate adult recruitment. Forget the past lake management, who caused it, etc. protect this years (and as many as necessary) spawn. Net later. Close season. The states is already closed. Math is math how many fry make it to adulthood by percentage? Increase your odds .... More fry, more adult recruitment. Protect the spawn (and the spawning grounds).

[creepworm]

How is it possible to say the spawn is successful? Sure there are fry being created. However , not enough fry to result in successful recruitment to adulthood. More fry = more recruitment. Nature has figured this out. Millions eggs /fry result in a fraction of adults. There is simply not enough fry given the current lake system to result in adequate adult recruitment. Forget the past lake management, who caused it, etc. protect this years (and as many as necessary) spawn. Net later. Close season. The states is already closed. Math is math how many fry make it to adulthood by percentage? Increase your odds .... More fry, more adult recruitment. Protect the spawn (and the spawning grounds).

If there is enough food for 1,000 fry to survive and you have 1,000,000 fry, how many will survive?

If there is enough food for 1,000 fry to survive and you have 1,000,000,000 fry, how many will survive?

See how adding more fry does not necessarily help matters?

[MN Musky]

Survivall of the fittest. If food was the cause. Then why attack the problem through the elimination of predators?

Plus more fry also equals more food for yearlings.