deer density

[nonteepical]

There's no denying minnesotas deer herd has been shrinking the past decade. Deer harvest is down 120k since 2003. Next year will be even lower than this year and it's not the wind, it's by design, big ag, auto insurance companies and foresters are influencing the DNR, hunters who foot the bill to fund the DNR are being pushed to the side. There is a petition going around and if your concerned about deer numbers and want deer hunters voice heard in state deer density meetings, instead of hunters being the tool for the farm bureau and insurance companies reaping billions in profits by keeping the deer herd low, find a petition or start one yourself.

Zone 3 isn't the only zone in Mn other places in the state need the DNR's attention so we all can have good deer hunting, this isn't about APR it's about having enough deer per square mile throughout the state that makes sence for all. Hunters, farmers and business.

http://youtu.be/Mkq_LQwMVU8

[walleye18]

great post and link to youtube.

whats discussed is spot on to whats happening in the state with respect to deer numbers/deer densities.

[laker1]

I agree 100%,

I also wonder if the peak harvests are a goal. Much of that harvest in 2003 was off of previous years of good conservative management. We decided to harvest the older does and much more. Realistically I know we can have more deer,but how high can are harvest rate go without cutting into breeding stock etc..

There is a limit. I also think we can spread the harvest around to more individuals,instead of one person having 5 tags and shooting those and than shooting more by filling his buddies tags. There is some pretty high harvests by single individuals.

[minky]

If the most deer a hunter could take was capped at 2 per year would this be acceptable to most hunters?

[rkhinrichs]

love brooks! is he a Minnesota boy?

[hockeybc69]

Brooks will be hosting another meeting in Mora on Jan 29th. Details coming on time and location.

So far he has held meetings in Isanti and Rice.

At the Rice meeting, he had Senator Brown, Rep Newberger and Rep Kresha in attendance.

Rep Newberger is sending out a legislative update this month and plans to include a deer hunters satisfaction survey in that, and provide the results to Brooks and his group working on this initiative.

[SmellEsox]

There is a petition to sign at Da Fishin' Hole in Little Falls.

[hockeybc69]

Petitions also located at the following locations

Whitcombs Archery, Princeton MN

Archery Headquarters, Rochester MN

Blackdog Archery, Braham MN

Monticello Bait, Monticello MN

DJ's Sporting Goods, Montevideo MN

Beimert Outdoors Pillager

Midwest Archery St Michael

Lewiston Sportsmens Club

Bialka's Bar, Opole MN

Da Fishin' Hole, Little Falls MN

Archery Country Rogers MN

Upcoming meetings open to the public that Brooks is hosting and going over his presentations at:

*Monticello Gun Club Meeting Tuesday January 14th 7 pm at the Monticello Community Center

*January 29th, 2014, from 7-8pm - meet and greet at 6pm in Mora MN, at the "Pine Room", which is located in the Back of Freddies Cafe next to the Chevrolet Garage on HWY 65 as you enter the Town of Mora from the south. Address is 810 Hwy 65 south, Mora Mn 55051

[lakevet]

Coming off a deer population that was at record highs, it is no surprise that some think the numbers are "too low". Managing wildlife populations is like driving a bus with a lot of play in the steering on a winding road. You will swing from ditch to ditch and your passengers are only happy when you are crossing the center line.

Can anyone post stats showing information that we have habitat that can support 40 to 80 deer per square mile deer density desired by the person in the video? Especially without supplemental sources of nutrition? Winter habitat would never support anywhere near that around here. Especially this year. Winter is a major bottleneck.

The harvest last year was well above the average in the 1980's and just slightly below the average for the 1990's.

I will pass on the petition. Put the effort into habitat instead of this little swerve of the bus.

lakevet

[certified jumbo]

Thanks for the info hockey. I'm sure you won't have a difficult time getting signitures.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Can anyone post stats showing information that we have habitat that can support 40 to 80 deer per square mile deer density desired by the person in the video?

His concerns are for areas being managed for 5-10 dpsm as an example. Areas that there is no reason to have numbers so low.

Example, Did you know area 221 is being managed for less than 10 dpsm and is currently considered above goal because the DNR estimates population levels at around 12 dpsm? for that reason its still an intensive harvest area. Which is absurd.

The reason the numbers are being managed at such low numbers is because of the 2005 stakeholders meetings where the goals were set. Its now 2014, and we are being managed by goals set nearly 10 years ago, with no plans to revisit goal setting for several more years in many areas.

[Jameson]

...Can anyone post stats showing information that we have habitat that can support 40 to 80 deer per square mile deer density desired by the person in the video?...

I'm not the person in the video, but pretty sure he want 25 deer per square mile or half of the carrying capacity, which ever is less for the given area.

If the DNR thinks the carrying capacity is 30 dpsm, no one is arguing for anything more than 15 dpsm.

But maybe that stance has changed....and the goal is 20-25 dpsm statewide????

[Getanet]

*January 29th, 2014, from 7-8pm - meet and greet at 6pm in Mora MN, at the "Pine Room", which is located in the Back of Freddies Cafe next to the Chevrolet Garage on HWY 65 as you enter the Town of Mora from the south. Address is 810 Hwy 65 south, Mora Mn 55051

I noticed this meeting was posted yesterday on he Facebook pages of at least three different organizations that support APR and/or QDM. They all seem to have been removed.

That has me scratching my head a little bit. I wonder if there was some concern about the specific date/location, or if something else is going on?

[SmellEsox]

Coming off a deer population that was at record highs, it is no surprise that some think the numbers are "too low". Managing wildlife populations is like driving a bus with a lot of play in the steering on a winding road. You will swing from ditch to ditch and your passengers are only happy when you are crossing the center line.

Can anyone post stats showing information that we have habitat that can support 40 to 80 deer per square mile deer density desired by the person in the video? Especially without supplemental sources of nutrition? Winter habitat would never support anywhere near that around here. Especially this year. Winter is a major bottleneck.

The harvest last year was well above the average in the 1980's and just slightly below the average for the 1990's.

I will pass on the petition. Put the effort into habitat instead of this little swerve of the bus.

lakevet

Not sure where you are getting anyone saying they want 40-80 dpsm. Also, the current habitat can support far more deer than what is being managed for. What habitat improvements do you suggest?

[Musky Buck]

Mora lol, drove there and back yesterday and all fall and west and southwest of Mora in my view has about the highest density of deer I have seen this year in the state of Minnesota. There's a lot of deer right in Mora along the snake river be careful near those bridges have had a few too many near misses over the years especially the bridge NW of town. I hope whacking more timberwolves is also a part of how they plan to gain deer numbers in the state because as low as we are if winter don't kill em a wolf might or stress the animals they're chasing around, we need to up that wolf quota.

[sticknstring]

If your not satisfied w/ deer hunting in MN and want your voice better represented at future stakeholder meetings, please sign the petition. This effort is gaining a lot of traction and the legislators are involved. If you can't make it to one of the above locations, I can PM you a copy of the petition or get in touch w/ Brooks. There is absolutely no reason some areas should be managed for 5-10 dpsm! Time to end the decimation of the MN deer herd and start some sound management.

[smsmith]

Coming off a deer population that was at record highs, it is no surprise that some think the numbers are "too low". Managing wildlife populations is like driving a bus with a lot of play in the steering on a winding road. You will swing from ditch to ditch and your passengers are only happy when you are crossing the center line.

Can anyone post stats showing information that we have habitat that can support 40 to 80 deer per square mile deer density desired by the person in the video? Especially without supplemental sources of nutrition? Winter habitat would never support anywhere near that around here. Especially this year. Winter is a major bottleneck.

The harvest last year was well above the average in the 1980's and just slightly below the average for the 1990's.

I will pass on the petition. Put the effort into habitat instead of this little swerve of the bus.

lakevet

Nobody is saying we want 40-80 deer per square mile. What we are saying is the biological carrying capacity of most of central MN would be in that range. Marrett Grund with the MN DNR stated as much to me in a phone conversation earlier this year. The problem is that the MN DNR doesn't use biology when determining pre-fawn densities per square mile. Social science is used to do that via a faulty public stakeholder process.

A deer kill over 46% lower in 2013 than in 2003. Absolutely zero biological reason for MN to have such a low deer herd. Lou Cornicelli is on record as saying the kill here should probably be in the neighborhood of 200-220K. We're a longggg ways from that.

[koonie]

Petitions also located at the following locations

Whitcombs Archery, Princeton MN

Archery Headquarters, Rochester MN

Blackdog Archery, Braham MN

Monticello Bait, Monticello MN

DJ's Sporting Goods, Montevideo MN

Beimert Outdoors Pillager

Midwest Archery St Michael

Lewiston Sportsmens Club

Bialka's Bar, Opole MN

Da Fishin' Hole, Little Falls MN

Archery Country Rogers MN

Upcoming meetings open to the public that Brooks is hosting and going over his presentations at:

*Monticello Gun Club Meeting Tuesday January 14th 7 pm at the Monticello Community Center

*January 29th, 2014, from 7-8pm - meet and greet at 6pm in Mora MN, at the "Pine Room", which is located in the Back of Freddies Cafe next to the Chevrolet Garage on HWY 65 as you enter the Town of Mora from the south. Address is 810 Hwy 65 south, Mora Mn 55051

Where did you find the list of places that have the petition?

[PurpleFloyd]

Nobody is saying we want 40-80 deer per square mile. What we are saying is the biological carrying capacity of most of central MN would be in that range. Marrett Grund with the MN DNR stated as much to me in a phone conversation earlier this year. The problem is that the MN DNR doesn't use biology when determining pre-fawn densities per square mile. Social science is used to do that via a faulty public stakeholder process.

A deer kill over 46% lower in 2013 than in 2003. Absolutely zero biological reason for MN to have such a low deer herd. Lou Cornicelli is on record as saying the kill here should probably be in the neighborhood of 200-220K. We're a longggg ways from that.

What changes specifically are being proposed in order to increase the deer population?

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Where did you find the list of places that have the petition?

QDMA forums have a LOT of activity on this initiative. I got the info there.

[laker1]

Number one it is in motion to change deer density upward regardless of further action. Most deer hunters agree,which is unusual that deer density is way to low.

80 deer per square mile is way too high,you will be paying crop damage constantly and deer yard degradation would be long term damage. Even in 2003, 80 deer per square mile was unheard of,except maybe for some metro area.

Camp Ripley in some of its best years in the early 60's when multi-methods were used to determine population was in the 40-60 deer range.

Every area is different,but a goal of 30-40 would be very good.

Also we may be pushing CWD problems at certain levels.

Meetings are good,be rational and like all things you have pendulum swings.

A side note it seems like from Montana to Wisconsin the deer herds population swings go up and down together.

[smsmith]

What changes specifically are being proposed in order to increase the deer population? [/quote

The MDDI is asking for two things

1. a drastic reduction in anterless permits for a year, possibly two

2. most importantly...changes to the public stakeholder meeting process. The last time around stakeholders were essentially forced into agreeing to a minimum of a 25% reduction in the deer herd. We want a transparent process and hopefully one where deer groups like MDHA, MBI (MN Bowhunters Inc.), QDMA, and MWA (MN Whitetail Alliance) have the ability to appoint/suggest a least a percentage of the stakeholders. We also want the stakeholder meetings to be videotaped and available for folks to watch, and for the names of stakeholders to be publicly available.

[B. Amish]

my main concern with all this is the groups that are pushing this realize that more deer is a pre-requisite to their ultimate goal of apr's.

yep, i said it.

[Getanet]

I hear ya B.amish. I too find it interesting that the groups supporting APR have suddenly found this as their current cause du jour.

I'm not saying there's anything fishy going on, but it makes me leery.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

I too find it interesting that the groups supporting APR have suddenly found this as their current cause du jour.

Absolutely not true. MWA has dropped support of this initiative because it contradicts there stance on APR......

There is not one ounce of APR in any of the presentations, and its not some hidden agenda.

Think what you want I guess.

[Getanet]

Absolutely not true. MWA has dropped support of this initiative because it contradicts there stance on APR......

There is not one ounce of APR in any of the presentations, and its not some hidden agenda.

Think what you want I guess.

Please elaborate on this Hockeybc69. Are you saying the WMA has dropped support of the Deer Density Initiative?

[hockeybc69]

To the best of my knowledge, that is correct.

[smsmith]

Absolutely not true. MWA has dropped support of this initiative because it contradicts there stance on APR......

There is not one ounce of APR in any of the presentations, and its not some hidden agenda.

Think what you want I guess.

Yep, this ^^^ There is absolutely nothing about APR's in the background of this Initiative. It was discussed by the folks who put it together and decided that APR's are a separate issue entirely and not something we wanted to address. MDHA, QDMA, MBI and MWA members (not leaders, MEMBERS) were responsible for putting this Initiative and petition together.

As pointed out above, MWA has decided to focus on APR's and not put their "corporate stamp of approval" on the Initiative and/or the petition.

[Getanet]

That's interesting. I wonder why they wouldn't support a move to increase the deer herd in MN?

[smsmith]

Please elaborate on this Hockeybc69. Are you saying the WMA has dropped support of the Deer Density Initiative?

I'd say yes and no. I believe the MWA supports the MDDI and the petition, but have chosen to not make it part of their official/corporate "platform". They are worried about pi$$ing off the DNR and the implications thereof in regards to a future APR push.

The best way to find out MWA's stance would be to contact them through their facebook page I imagine