Lowering our Low Expectations

[sticknstring]

Quote:

How many hunters in MN know what a browse line is?

Heck, lots of posters on this forum son't know what pleonasm is either but that doesn't stop them from posting on the forum again.

The point was not implied definition, it was because there are so few deer! You could quadruple the population in the state and still be short of carrying capacity.

[Getanet]

Here are total registered bucks. Those percentages paint a very different picture than the raw numbers.

2008 - 85,646 Total registered harvest - 221,837

2009 - 83,820 Total registered harvest - 194,186

2010 - 88,027 Total registered harvest - 207,313

2011 - 76,003 Total registered harvest - 192,331

And these buck harvest numbers do not include fawn bucks registered. Last I checked a buck is a buck regardless of age. So that puts the buck harvest at pushing 50% of overall harvest. A far cry from the 12.7% in the data above for 2011.

You can't twist the numbers around, say something I didn't say and then say I'm wrong. I never said 12.7% of bucks where shot. The number stands - 12.7% of firearms hunters shot a legal buck in 2011. The argument was, "hard to say if we're shooting all the bucks." If 13% of hunters are shooting a legal buck does it seem possible to you hunters are shooting all the bucks?

Does 76,000 bucks out of 597,615 licenses sold seem like an astronomical number to you?

Roughly 33% of hunters are successful in shooting any deer. About half that shoot a legal buck.

Anyway you want to slice it, a majority of hunters go home empty handed and a small percentage are successful in shooting a legal buck of any age.

The 87% figure was taken from a handbook that was published nearly 14 years ago. And with any type of report like that they were likely using data that was at least a few years old to begin with.

[SmellEsox]

You can't twist the numbers around, say something I didn't say and then say I'm wrong. I never said 12.7% of bucks where shot. The number stands - 12.7% of firearms hunters shot a legal buck in 2011. The argument was, "hard to say if we're shooting all the bucks." If 13% of hunters are shooting a legal buck does it seem possible to you hunters are shooting all the bucks?

Does 76,000 bucks out of 597,615 licenses sold seem like an astronomical number to you?

Roughly 33% of hunters are successful in shooting any deer. About half that shoot a legal buck.

Anyway you want to slice it, a majority of hunters go home empty handed and a small percentage are successful in shooting a legal buck of any age.

The 87% figure was taken from a handbook that was published nearly 14 years ago. And with any type of report like that they were likely using data that was at least a few years old to begin with.

To me it says that hunting is really bad if 500,000 hunters can only kill 80-90,000 bucks in a year. Hunting pressure on bucks probably doesn't change that much from year to year. That is why buck harvest is such an important factor in DNR's population model. If buck harvest continues to decline significantly every year, it is obvious to me that the population is declining significantly every year. If I were DNR deer czar, I'd cut way back on antlerless tags.

[Getanet]

How many hunters in MN know what a browse line is?

[Bear55]

Getanet you are going to have to help me out here, what are you arguing and where do you stand on whatever we are talking about? I went back a few pages and couldn't find anything.

All I am saying is we really don't know how many bucks and total deer are out there to begin with so its hard to find solid numbers based off harvest numbers or % of something we don't really know for sure.

[TruthWalleyes]

All i know is that if i buy a deer license and sit my butt on a 5 gallon bucket somewhere on my 80 acres of land....I expect to see 3 mature deer in a 3 hour sitting.

I've met a lot of hunters, and i'm not suprised why so many don't fill tags. LOL.

Also, i know of several purchased tags where the hunter has only hunted a half day to a full day max. Not as many die hards as one might believe...Lots of busy kids and busy parents of kids that buy a license and don't hunt much and i bet those are the ones contributing the most to the non-success category. Me personally, have been in the successful hunter category every season of my life.

[sticknstring]

All I am saying is we really don't know how many bucks and total deer are out there to begin with so its hard to find solid numbers based off harvest numbers or % of something we don't really know for sure.

There lies the problem. The DNR has no idea how many deer we have. How could they? There's been no surveys! They fly less than 5% of the areas and know what areas should be managed or lottery?

[Getanet]

Bear...yeah, I've gone round and round with folks on APR on this site so many times over the years perhaps I'm a bit dizzy. Here is where I stand:

1) Don't agree with APR regulations. It's forcing one's belief of a quality deer on another. It's also driving a wedge in the hunting community where it isn't needed. If you want to practice it yourself, that's great.

2) All the statistics about percent of yearlings shot are basically hogwash. Might as well pull a number out of a hat and call it a fact.

3) People who point to other states as shining example of what MN should try to become ignore some combination of pressure, habitat or situations where most hunters are excluded from hunting the territories where the big bucks are found.

[sticknstring]

All i know is that if i buy a deer license and sit my butt on a 5 gallon bucket somewhere on my 80 acres of land....I expect to see 3 mature deer in a 3 hour sitting.

I've met a lot of hunters, and i'm not suprised why so many don't fill tags. LOL.

Me personally, have been in the successful hunter category every season of my life.

Maybe we can pool together and get TW a trophy. He could be the best deer hunter in the state!

[Bear55]

Bear...yeah, I've gone round and round with folks on APR on this site so many times over the years perhaps I'm a bit dizzy. Here is where I stand:

1) Don't agree with APR regulations. It's forcing one's belief of a quality deer on another. It's also driving a wedge in the hunting community where it isn't needed. If you want to practice it yourself, that's great.

2) All the statistics about percent of yearlings shot are basically hogwash. Might as well pull a number out of a hat and call it a fact.

3) People who point to other states as shining example of what MN should try to become ignore some combination of pressure, habitat or situations where most hunters are excluded from hunting the territories where the big bucks are found.

Can't argue with any of those. I love to hunt big deer, all I ask of the dnr is a decent population to work with. I have that where I bow hunt in central MN, up north it is much more difficult.

[sticknstring]

Bear - what area in central MN do you hunt? I frequent 172 and it's recovering. Still horrible, but better than the past two years. The rifle crew was still 0-8 as of yesterday afternoon. 1-8 last year.

[TruthWalleyes]

Maybe we can pool together and get TW a trophy. He could be the best deer hunter in the state!

I hope you realize that 5 gal bucket comment was tongue in cheek, and yes, i've filled a tag each and every year

[hockeybc69]

If I shot the first deer that walked by me every year, I could say the same thing. Doesnt mean deer populations are strong.

[walleye18]

does filling a tag or not filling a tag mean it was a great year...or a terrible year? C'mon, there more to hunting than the kill...right?

I think theres more to hunting than just harvesting the deer....its all about the hunting experience. Yes, I like to shoot deer like everyone else. Many years, I have passed on small bucks. Many years, I have passed on does too.

Theres going to be good years...theres going to be great years...and theres going o be years that suck. Quit crying you bunch of Jack wagons.

just a thought....to each their own.

[Bear55]

Bear - what area in central MN do you hunt? I frequent 172 and it's recovering. Still horrible, but better than the past two years. The rifle crew was still 0-8 as of yesterday afternoon. 1-8 last year.

Kind of all over in that area, 172, 171, 155, 246, 242, 247 and 249. Ya I sort of get around a bit, didn't even realize I hunted that many areas until I looked them up.

No doubt it is not what it once was but I still find a lot more deer than I see up in 108 rifle season. Then again I am just one guy spending a lot of time in the woods all bow season. Not as easy to put a larger group on a lot of deer like that.

[sticknstring]

I think the need to fill a tag mentality is our own worst enemy. Not directed at you TW.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

Kind of all over in that area, 172, 171, 155, 246, 242, 247 and 249. Ya I sort of get around a bit, didn't even realize I hunted that many areas until I looked them up. shocked

Yeah, up until $3-4 gas and kids, I used to go all over too. A little more restrictive now, but I still hunt quite a few areas.

The past couple years of lottery are helping. Going to take a few years to rebuild.

[Bear55]

Got 3 kids myself, stand time had taken a major hit that is for sure. Just happen to live within a half hour to 45 minute drive of all those areas so that helps out big time.

[nonteepical]

I say try to control your own with this topic, if deer numbers are low in your area don't shoot too many of them and if they are high you can take an extra deer or 2. Focus from your area out about 3-4 miles and scout that talk to some farmers on the road etc. and before season have a plan like none of us added a management doe tag because we weren't seeing much around, so then hopefully we'll see stronger deer numbers next fall a bit.

musky understands what i was saying.

[PurpleFloyd]

Quote:

How many hunters in MN know what a browse line is?

Heck, lots of posters on this forum son't know what pleonasm is either but that doesn't stop them from posting on the forum again.

[delcecchi]

If you want example of browse line, drive a boat around west end of lake vermilion. Every single cedar along the shore looks like someone took a hedge trimmer to it about 4 feet above the water.

It was freaky to go canoeing in Quetico and see cedars growing down to the water.

[PurpleFloyd]

If you want example of browse line, drive a boat around west end of lake vermilion. Every single cedar along the shore looks like someone took a hedge trimmer to it about 4 feet above the water.

It was freaky to go canoeing in Quetico and see cedars growing down to the water.

Around here the browse line disappears as soon as the John Deere with a 12 row head cuts it off at the base of the stalk.

[PurpleFloyd]

Nonteepical reminds me of a lake minnetonka lakeshore owner in the summer.

....Now i get why you are so into APR, you can't seem to take a step off your 100 acres, which is probably bad land anyway. I can't help but laugh thinking of you sitting on your 100 each and every year, grinding your teeth together everytime you hear a neighbor shoot.

Have you thought about building a high fence and making your own herd of superior deer? Maybe there is a government grant for horn porn.

My suggestion would be to throw about 3-5 acres of corn smack dab in the middle of that 100. If anything gets in there let it be and only take deer going into or coming out of it. Do this for 5 years and let them pattern the cover the corn provides and he won't have to worry about what the neighbors do.