Lowering our Low Expectations

[hockeybc69]

I sure wish I lived in the land that you do Gordie with the flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children dance and laugh and play with gumdrop smiles.

I saw one deer this year during gun season at our farm in 5 days of hunting. I guess I should be happy. Last year I saw 2 deer all gun season if I recall correctly.

[Gordie]

Yep all the deer are gone in this state better go to Kansas with Dave T, Hockeybc69. Then soon you wont want to hunt here either and that will be two more deer for the guys that still hunt in this state.

Keep painting the picture black..

[boXCar JiggY]

Hey! thats where I live! EVERYBODY OUT, except gordie an people that age venison the wrong way. Wheres my candy......

[hockeybc69]

Hard to reason with unreasonable people Gordie..... No wonder there is a very clear problem in some areas.... Not saying the whole state is void of deer, but there are certainly problems in areas.

Truthwalleyes goes to an area in SW MN thats likely a lottery area and sees 17 deer? We are in a managed area and for the last 4 seasons havent shot a deer with our rifles? That seems pretty odd. But maybe thats your norm and you are happy with that. Good for you.

[Old Dewjabber]

I forgot to mention we hunt the old fashioned way. No fancy cameras, new fangled heated stands, food plots, fiber optics, high tech bows or guns, sprays and scent killers, calls, blah blah blah.

But now we still bigger deer easier....

My how things have changed in my 35 years of hunting.

[B-man715]

I sure wish I lived in the land that you do Gordie with the flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children dance and laugh and play with gumdrop smiles.

I saw one deer this year during gun season at our farm in 5 days of hunting. I guess I should be happy. Last year I saw 2 deer all gun season if I recall correctly.

Sounds like you guys should take a few years off from deer hunting and let them rebound a bit......

[KenM1987]

Its funny how much people cry about the deer hunting in MN. Put some effort into scouting and learning new places and see what happens. You can't always count on grandpas stand that the big buck was shot out of. I shot both my deer on the same day within five hours of eachother on 80 acres of public land.

[tunrevir]

I have no complaints about the deer hunting in my area. Sometimes I see 8-10 in a night and sometimes I sit for a couple outings without seeing a deer. It is called hunting not shooting the deer with the biggest set of antlers, or sitting and being disappointed by all of the basket racks you let go by. The quality of the experience is different for each and every individual that goes into the field. Some are happy with sitting and the potential opportunity to see or harvest a deer, some are happy to take any legal deer that walks by, some are happy to "fill out" using every available tag they can fill, while others want to shoot a mature deer and see one or two every outing. We all have different reasons for being afield so the low expectations are in my book due to watching to much outdoor television and seeing all of the big dreamy bucks that they shoot and expecting to see that each time you hit the woods. Minnesota has a ton of public land that holds a lot of mature deer, some I would venture to say, have never even see a hunter in their lifetime! Do some in field recon, find some deeper spots to hunt, move into the woods 2-3 miles, scout hard, hunt hard and you will be rewarded for your efforts. Don't settle or lower your expectations, hunt harder, scout harder and be willing to work harder then the average guy and I believe your experiences afield may change. The thing I love about whitetails is that they can adapt to so many different types of cover and thrive that there are always a few big deer around. Things in the state will not change unless it comes down from the DNR so if you want to affect change go to the DNR and voice your concerns. Be forewarned though, just like politics, for everything you want, there is going to be someone that disagrees and is a polar opposite of what you would like to accomplish.

Tunrevir~

[bowhunternw]

I would like to see a limit of licenses sold. If not that then have to pick a season and only be able to hunt 1 season, be it archery, gun or muzzleloader. In my opinion MN deer simply are over pressured. Reduce the pressure a little and add some better habitat, this would do alot.

[Gordie]

No deer in this state ,no walleyes in Mille Lacs, no waterfowl left here either, pheasants are all but gone, the list can go on and on, so why then do you even try and enjoy the outdoors if all your going to do is complain about it?

Turn on The MONSTER Buck hunting channel and enjoy your hunt.

[TruthWalleyes]

Hard to reason with unreasonable people Gordie..... No wonder there is a very clear problem in some areas.... Not saying the whole state is void of deer, but there are certainly problems in areas.

Truthwalleyes goes to an area in SW MN thats likely a lottery area and sees 17 deer? We are in a managed area and for the last 4 seasons havent shot a deer with our rifles? That seems pretty odd. But maybe thats your norm and you are happy with that. Good for you.

wow you hunt some bad land.

come down to slayton and fill a tag.

[thatoneguy]

I have no complaints about the deer hunting in my area. Sometimes I see 8-10 in a night and sometimes I sit for a couple outings without seeing a deer. It is called hunting not shooting the deer with the biggest set of antlers, or sitting and being disappointed by all of the basket racks you let go by. The quality of the experience is different for each and every individual that goes into the field. Some are happy with sitting and the potential opportunity to see or harvest a deer, some are happy to take any legal deer that walks by, some are happy to "fill out" using every available tag they can fill, while others want to shoot a mature deer and see one or two every outing. We all have different reasons for being afield so the low expectations are in my book due to watching to much outdoor television and seeing all of the big dreamy bucks that they shoot and expecting to see that each time you hit the woods. Minnesota has a ton of public land that holds a lot of mature deer, some I would venture to say, have never even see a hunter in their lifetime! Do some in field recon, find some deeper spots to hunt, move into the woods 2-3 miles, scout hard, hunt hard and you will be rewarded for your efforts. Don't settle or lower your expectations, hunt harder, scout harder and be willing to work harder then the average guy and I believe your experiences afield may change. The thing I love about whitetails is that they can adapt to so many different types of cover and thrive that there are always a few big deer around. Things in the state will not change unless it comes down from the DNR so if you want to affect change go to the DNR and voice your concerns. Be forewarned though, just like politics, for everything you want, there is going to be someone that disagrees and is a polar opposite of what you would like to accomplish.

Tunrevir~

great post!

[PurpleFloyd]

Whats your point PF?

So the deer harvest is down 100k since roughly 10 years ago. And??

And we are selling fewer licenses than we were then yet to listen to some on this forum they sound like there has been a huge influx of hunters.

The single biggest increased licenses has been with the introduction of the youth hunting licenses. They have certainly increased in popularity but to be honest I think this is a good thing and building more hunters for the future is a good thing.

Not sure if we see eye to eye with this put I do think we need to reduce the numbers of deer taken per hunter. I see no reason for anyone to buy multiple tags and I am not really in favor of the state having all of these bonus licenses that they sell. If not for them license sales are going down not up.

I would also like to see the season reduced and congested. I see nothing wrong with having for example 1 single season for the first 2 weeks in October and let everyone use whatever they want to be it rifle, slug or bow and have them all hunt at the same time. Level the playing field, take it out of the rut, have it when there is a lot of crop cover and we will end up with a lot of big deer running around in a few short years with no other limitations needed.

[DaveT]

No deer in this state ,no walleyes in Mille Lacs, no waterfowl left here either, pheasants are all but gone, the list can go on and on, so why then do you even try and enjoy the outdoors if all your going to do is complain about it?

Turn on The MONSTER Buck hunting channel and enjoy your hunt.

I've heard this comment or similar comments more times than I can count. I am not basing my expectations on TV shows, and neither are most guys on here who feel like I do. We are basing our expectations on what we experience when we hunt states with better management. I expect to get one opportunity to arrow a mature buck in 7-10 days of hunting the rut in KS. 4 years out of 5 I will get that one opportunity. Contrary to what most of you guys think, there is not a big buck behind every tree in KS and it takes all of the skills and hard work that you seem to think we have none of to kill a mature buck there. The difference is they are there and they are there in enough numbers that I can reasonably expect to see one every year, provided I put in the time. I put in triple the time every year in MN and I see one mature buck every 4 or 5 years.

TV hunting shows are entertainment and most offer no educational value. Most of the bucks that get shot on those shows are real (and wild), though, and none of those shows are filmed in MN. There's a reason for that.

[PropsterII]

Cheets, quit trying to be the voice of reason. We all know that KS, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, KY, Indiana, OH , and even Wisc that all have lots of mature bucks only manage for big deer and don't offer enough deer for the average hunter to take and don't offer the chance to shoot regular deer in the tradition of deer hunting or for venison, and don't have the ability to introduce youngsters to the sport. I heard they even make ten year olds hold out for monsters even if they've never shot one. Of course there are only big bucks running around so they don't really have a choice anyway. And nobody can afford to hunt in those states anyway, all the ground is leased up. It's all about horns and big TV bucks you know. So really Minnesota is the Mecca of deer hunting. At least that's the impression I get from folks on here.

[TruthWalleyes]

I'm reminded of a time this fall.

I have reasonably high goals for sturgeon and flatheads. (Noticed i said Goal and not expectation)

My buddy, 1st time fishing stuergeon, reeled in a 45" sturgeon and was just happy as can be. He broke his rod in the process too. A 45" sturgeon to me is just a dink. I'm searching for the 5 footers.

At any rate, others take extreme joy in catching something that you may consider nothing special at all.

I also fish sturg more than the average joe and set my own goals. I make darn sure i'm having fun in the process. Never got my big sturgeon this year, but i caught lots that others would have considered the fish of a lifetime.

Goals or expectations are your own. Set your goals, but don't sacrifice happiness if you are unable to reach those goals....Especially when we're talking about hunting/fishing goals which are just relaxation days for me. Time to sit, relax, and reflect. many of us with lots of experience set our goals to be a PB each year. It's unrealistic, sometimes, and when we set unrealistic goals people are quick to blame others for not reaching their goals. Again, it's hunting. A time to relax, enjoy the scenery. You set an unrealistic goal, don't be a cry baby when it isn't achieved.

[slimngrizzly]

And I get that there are big bucks in MN... but why cant I hunt hard for a big mature buck on MY LAND? why should I have to "work harder" and drive 10 or 20 or 50 miles away to where there is a big MN buck. I don't think its too much to ask to just hope a few mature bucks live per few square miles... and right now there is not. I don't care if I eat tag soup but id like to at least have the confidence a few are around. Having more mature deer doesn't mean they get dumber.

[Scott K]

"I want" sure seems to be the norm in here

[SmellEsox]

Harvest is down statewide again by 6%. We will be lucky to have a total harvest in the mid 150,000s. Right now we are in the 120,000s. Hunting in this state in a lot of areas is awful and it is mainly due to overharvest of antlerless deer. Wolves have an impact, but not as much as antlerless harvest. Other sources of mortality need to be considered much more before antlerless quotas are set. I would bet the lottery areas have more deer in them. We need more lottery areas to build the population back up.

[TruthWalleyes]

Cheets, quit trying to be the voice of reason.

The 1%

From Outdoor News- week before season A opener.

[leech~~]

And I get that there are big bucks in MN... but why cant I hunt hard for a big mature buck on MY LAND? why should I have to "work harder" and drive 10 or 20 or 50 miles away to where there is a big MN buck. I don't think its too much to ask to just hope a few mature bucks live per few square miles... and right now there is not. I don't care if I eat tag soup but id like to at least have the confidence a few are around. Having more mature deer doesn't mean they get dumber.

Dude, if your land does not support big bucks it just does not support big bucks! I want some in my back yard too, but I have to drive a few hundred miles away to find them!

[sticknstring]

Quote:

Updated: November 20, 2013 - 7:07 AM

Hunters have killed 129,000 deer so far during Minnesota’s firearms deer season — down about 6 percent from this time last year. Officials believe windy conditions are primarily responsible for the reduced harvest.

The whitetail harvest in the northeast is down even more, the results of a tough winter last year. “We also reduced antlerless permits in response to anticipated impacts of the winter,’’ said Leslie McInenly, Department of Natural Resources big game program leader.

Meanwhile, deer license sales are down 2,700 from this time last year. The DNR sold 459,665 licenses through the weekend. The regular firearms season ended Sunday in much of the state, but it continues through Sunday in most of northern Minnesota.

Doug Smith

If harvest is down again this year (currently down 6%), that'll be a decrease in total deer kill 9 of the past 11 years and the lowest total deer kill we've had in 15 years.

MN used to have respectable deer hunting w/ adequate numbers of mature bucks. Those days are unfortunately behind us. If you spend any amount of time in the woods, or have had the opportunity to hunt the SE portion of the state or even outside of MN, you'll agree with this. For many, hunting MN is all they know and it's difficult to grasp how much better something can be if you've never experienced it.

MN hasn't had a deer hunting satisfaction survey outside SE MN since 2005, with none scheduled. Of 125 units statewide, the DNR only flew 4 of them to verify model accuracy. I love to deer hunt. I pay my license fees with the mindset a percentage of those dollars should be used for surveys, both aerial and hunter satisfaction. This is unacceptable to me. Hearing the DNR blame the wind, rain, & standing corn every year is unacceptable to me. Nothing will change unless we as hunters stand up for ourselves and voice our frustrations. We as hunters deserve better.

With that said, the DNR can't do anything without a legislative initiative. It was nearly a decade long battle for positive change to stem in the SE. Now it's time other areas of MN tapped into similar potential. Please, contact your legislators and senators and express your concern with deer hunting in your area. Continue to write to Outdoor News & other publications. Use this link to contact your local representatives. Lets make it happen!

http://www.gis.leg.mn/OpenLayers/districts/

[DaveT]

You set an unrealistic goal, don't be a cry baby when it isn't achieved.

Who said I didn't reach my goals? I just had to drive 450 miles to do it.

As crazy as this sounds, while I was hunting in Kansas not only did I kill a mature buck, I also enjoyed the following aspects of my hunt; Time with friends and family, Got close to nature, Sported and Recreated, Acquired Meat.

Who would have thought you could do all of those things at the same time in the same place? That's right, anybody who has hunted deer outside of MN.

[mntatonka]

With that said, the DNR can't do anything without a legislative initiative. It was nearly a decade long battle for positive change to stem in the SE. Now it's time other areas of MN tapped into similar potential. Please, contact your legislators and senators and express your concern with deer hunting in your area. Continue to write to Outdoor News & other publications. Use this link to contact your local representatives. Lets make it happen!

Positive change? You're talking about a smaller deer harvest being a problem, and you think the regs in the southeast were positive? There's been a continued decrease in harvest in Zone 3 since those regs were put in place. So which is it, a smaller harvest is bad, or a smaller harvest is good?

[TruthWalleyes]

I just had to drive 450 miles to do it.

I've done that already over two weekends of hunting and that was only to/from miles, not including the miles driving while hunting over the weekend. I'll assume 450 is only 1 way though.

Congrats on meeting your goal. Mine has been met as well...and i didn't have to buy an out of state license to do it...I also realize our goals are different. So be it. Hard to make a 1%r happy

[sticknstring]

Quote:

Hard to make a 1%r happy

That 1% is comprised of guys like Mitch Rompola. They probably called him twice to get a full percentage point. That survey is complete bunk as the selections are mutually exclusive.

Obviously meat is important. That's why we need to get populations up to a level where doe harvest is warranted. The meat guys can shoot a doe for the freezer while happily passing the frolicking forkhorn. The neighbor will have a blast seeing that fork blossom into a 115" 8 pt the following year while the neighbor that passed him will be just as happy putting another doe in the freezer. Better bucks, better hunting.

The comment about the lower harvest in SE is by design. By passing yearling bucks, the pressure is put on does. Meat guys fill the freezer, non-meat guys shoot better bucks. Simple, yet effective.

[mntatonka]

That 1% is comprised of guys like Mitch Rompola. They probably called him twice to get a full percentage point. That survey is complete bunk as the selections are mutually exclusive.

Obviously meat is important. That's why we need to get populations up to a level where doe harvest is warranted. The meat guys can shoot a doe for the freezer while happily passing the frolicking forkhorn. The neighbor will have a blast seeing that fork blossom into a 115" 8 pt the following year while the neighbor that passed him will be just as happy putting another doe in the freezer. Better bucks, better hunting.

The comment about the lower harvest in SE is by design. By passing yearling bucks, the pressure is put on does. Meat guys fill the freezer, non-meat guys shoot better bucks. Simple, yet effective.

except that it didn't put more pressure on does? The doe harvest dropped considerably each year right next to the buck harvest.

[sticknstring]

It did initially after APR was initiated. Look up the doe/buck harvest data from '10 & '11. Now in it's 4th year, the harvest has equaled back out.

[Coach1310]

I enjoy all the passion everyone has in this thread, but a $31 license means we "deserve better".... I am not trying to start an argument or a battle, but to say we DESERVE it sounds entitled to me. Now, can we all WORK to MAKE it better, sure, but saying we deserve it is silly to me, but maybe I just don't get it. I love being in the woods and the blood pumps every time I see a deer and will even more so when it is a big buck, but I don't feel I deserve anything. I am happy getting the experience no matter what I put in. My biggest fear is APR will become a big chunk of MN which will lead to more Leasing of Private lands, outfitters and more pressure on public lands. Sure, we would have more big bucks, but do we want all the other things that come with it?

[Getanet]

That's why we need to get populations up to a level where doe harvest is warranted.