Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Manziel Debate


DrJuice1980

Recommended Posts

Top 5 QB with a terrible team because of a terrible D:

Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons

Reply???

Ryan isn't a top 5 QB, for starters. That said, yeah their D sucks rocks for sure. But they've also been riddled with injuries on O, including losing Steven Jackson for an extended period, losing Roddy White for several weeks, and losing Julio Jones for the season halfway through the year.

So yeah, the D stinks, but it's not the only reason ATL stinks as well.

FWIW, Ryan is 7th in yards, 9th in TD, 11th in rating, 6th in completion %, and 21st in yards per attempt. Just, y'know, so you see it's the numbers and not just me saying he's not a top-5 guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Big Dave2

    181

  • DrJuice1980

    176

  • CaptainMusky

    173

  • LMITOUT

    135

Matt Ryan a top 5 quarterback? No way. I would take Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Russel Wilson, Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, and even Tony Romo all over Matt Ryan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ryan isn't a top 5 QB, for starters. That said, yeah their D sucks rocks for sure. But they've also been riddled with injuries on O, including losing Steven Jackson for an extended period, losing Roddy White for several weeks, and losing Julio Jones for the season halfway through the year.

So yeah, the D stinks, but it's not the only reason ATL stinks as well.

FWIW, Ryan is 7th in yards, 9th in TD, 11th in rating, 6th in completion %, and 21st in yards per attempt. Just, y'know, so you see it's the numbers and not just me saying he's not a top-5 guy.

2012:

Matt Ryan

Season Stats: 422/615; 4,719 passing yards; 32 TD to 14 INT; 99.1 QB rating

Defense: 5th ranked Defense

2013:

Matt Ryan

You already provided the stats

Defense: 29th ranked Defense

I guess it is you just saying it. Nice try untoughguy

Looks like its all about the "D"

got a clue yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matt Ryan has been a top 10 QB since his rookie season, last year he was #4/#5 according to his stats. Then the "D" fell apart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matt Ryan has been a top 10 QB since his rookie season, last year he was #4/#5 according to his stats. Then the "D" fell apart.

Has nothing to due with Harry Douglas being his number one receiver over Julio Jones or Roddy White. Those two are obviously the same talent level as Harry Douglas. crazy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I'm convinced the Juice is just trolling. The name calling, the specious reasoning (if you can even call it reasoning), relentless question begging. It's sad to watch, but still kinda funny.

I'd like to hear your explanation, O guru, on how Atlanta's defense is responsible for Ryan's decline, and not the injuries on offense. Oh - and he wasn't a top 5 QB before, either. Btw, nice job backpedaling from "top 5" to "top 10." Kind of a big difference between the two.

Keep the comedy gold coming, champ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why you got to erase your statistics post???

Youre telling me that a Defense has nothing to do with offensive and QB production? "Thats the dumbest thing on this whole thread, lol."

So when a defense controls the game, constantly get 3 and outs, limits the TOP for the opposition, the offense doesnt get more time to execute?

Those are unrelated arent they.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No backpedaling chief, He was a top 5 last year, I believe I put stats up for you to read not my fault you dont know how to read a stat line. Those were top 5 stats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How so? I believe stats triumph opinion. Defense controls the TOP, look at the rate in which a win=TOP dominance. 2 min drives ending in a score by the offense aren't the reason for more ball control. It's the 3 and outs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How so? I believe stats triumph opinion. Defense controls the TOP, look at the rate in which a win=TOP dominance. 2 min drives ending in a score by the offense aren't the reason for more ball control. It's the 3 and outs.

In good teams with top offenses the opposite is true. A good offense keeps a mediocre defense off the field and rested so there is less substituting of starters needed. A good offense also gets their team out to an early lead forcing the other team's offense out of their game plan early which plays into the hands of even a mediocre defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with your first part Big Dave. A good offense will provide a nice cushion for the D to risk more and play better than they are, same could be said for the opposite. I can only think of a few offenses like that, and we are a FAR cry from being a Denver Broncos. Johnny football isn't the answer and no other QB in the draft is. It's easier to build defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's easier to build defense.

I disagree. To build this defense into that caliber of defense where you can win a superbowl without having a top-notch QB, you will need a lot more than 1 first round pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People don't recognize good defense today when they see it. With todays rules if you hold the other team below 21 points your defense did its job. Even the Vikings are averaging over 24 points per game of offense. The top six defenses hold the other team below 19 points per game and will all be in the playoffs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are clearly needs all over the defense but last year with the same roster with one exception, Winfield, they were a capable one. There is a lit of issues with depth and some people not playing well this year but its not like we started the season with an entirely new defense. With Winfield on the d this year I have to believe they would have been significantly better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Big Dave, that is why I have said from the beginning that we need to acquire multiple (more than 2) day 1 picks. Because there is no QB that will turn this team into having a high power offense. We have to think about what we are. Look in the mirror. We have the best RB ever (and a very solid #2). We need to build a D so we can CONTROL THE BALL with that run game and work off the play action like we have been doing but our QB spot blows, we shouldn't need to burn a 1st pick on a "capable" guy. No LMIT, I don't have a fantasy about some mythical QB falling into our lap, it seems like that is your dream. Pinch yourself, wake up from that dream.

There are way more Jamarcus Russells out there then Demetrius Underwoods. The margin for error is less, and we are far away from 1 player being the answer to all our problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the title of this thread? Oh yeah, Manziel Debate. I looked back 3 pages, with no mention of Johnny Football....I love how these threads twist and turn and the discussions are in now way related to what the topic is.

Carry on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only two teams in the past twenty years to win Super Bowls without a good QB were the 2001 Ravens and 2003 Bucs. The other 18 either had elite QBs or got elite level QB play during their playoff run.

Like others have said, with all the rule changes favoring the offense, it's very tough to keep a halfway decent offense under 20 points these days.

The Vikes should be able to get Bridgewater or Manziel with their first pick. I would take either of those guys in a second.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bra,

Eli is an elite QB or was he a product of the defense?

(holding New England to 17 and 14 points wasn't defense?)

Big Ben is not elite

Joe Flacco is not elite

Since 03 there have been 6 super bowls have been won by "non" elite QBs. If youre saying that the top 10-15 QBs in the league are "elite" then it doesn't take much to hold that title does it. To me Elite is top 3-5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the title of this thread? Oh yeah, Manziel Debate. I looked back 3 pages, with no mention of Johnny Football....I love how these threads twist and turn and the discussions are in now way related to what the topic is.

Carry on.

There is plenty to whet your appetite about Manziel in the other 23 pages knock yourself out there and enjoy the reading.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bra,

Eli is an elite QB or was he a product of the defense?

(holding New England to 17 and 14 points wasn't defense?)

Too bad for you that the Giants defense was ranked 17th in 2007 and 25th in 2011.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
The evolution of the NFL toward the passing game is apparent. The winners of the past 10 Super Bowls ranked an average of ninth in net adjusted yards per attempt on offense and 10th in allowed net adjusted yards per attempt on defense. On the ground, these title winners averaged just 19th in rushing yards per carry and 14th in rushing yards allowed per carry.

It's clear that "run and stop the run" is no longer the secret to NFL success.

It's clear that "run and stop the run" is no longer the secret to NFL success.<---- Stuart Smalley's formula for the Vikings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too bad for you that the Giants defense was ranked 17th in 2007 and 25th in 2011.

You're forgetting that apparently the regular season doesn't count, according to Mr. Smalley.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
The evolution of the NFL toward the passing game is apparent. The winners of the past 10 Super Bowls ranked an average of ninth in net adjusted yards per attempt on offense and 10th in allowed net adjusted yards per attempt on defense. On the ground, these title winners averaged just 19th in rushing yards per carry and 14th in rushing yards allowed per carry.

It's clear that "run and stop the run" is no longer the secret to NFL success.

It's clear that "run and stop the run" is no longer the secret to NFL success.<---- Stuart Smalley's formula for the Vikings

Was AP on those teams?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Juice,

You didn't read this part of my post "...or got elite level QB play during their playoff run."

I don't consider Eli or Flacco elite, but they both played at a very high level in their playoff runs. Check out Flacco's postseason stats, they're some of the best ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was AP on those teams?

Not only are there mythical QB's and mythical football seasons that just have a Super Bowl in your world, but now we have mythical RB's that are a dime a dozen and will be there year after year, even when they've been rode hard and put away wet every...single...game because the team doesn't have a QB worth squat.

Good grief.

Turn the TV on and watch the Vikings or at least take a look at the standings in the paper once in a while. They've proven this approach doesn't work...year after year after year after...

Enjoy your trip to fantasy land. Send us a postcard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the South Shore...  The focus for many this week is the ongoing deer hunting season which is a big tradition in these parts, even for avid walleye anglers.  There were some that either already harvested their deer or are more into catching fall walleyes than hunting.     Those that are fishing are taking advantage of the unseasonably warm weather and excellent walleye and sauger bite that is happening across the lake.  Cold weather is in the forecast in the upcoming days and weeks so that is also getting many excited. The best depths on the south end of LOW are 22-28 feet of water.     Vertical jigging with frozen emerald shiners is catching most of the walleyes, saugers and jumbo perch.  Depending upon where on the lake you are fishing, some slots and big trophies are in the mix as well, but most reports are talking about good numbers of eaters.    Jumbo perch are coming in good numbers this fall which will serve ice anglers well.  Watch out for an occasional pike or even lake sturgeon mixed in with the walleyes.      There are good numbers of walleyes and saugers across the south shore which is setting up nicely for early ice.   On the Rainy River...  There continues to be good numbers of shiners in the river, and consequently, there are good walleyes in the river as well.     Walleyes along with saugers, pike and some sturgeon are coming in up and down the river.  Most walleyes are being caught in 10-25 feet of water in various stretches of the river.   Jigging with live or frozen emerald shiners is the key. Some anglers are also still slow trolling crankbaits upstream to cover more ground and find fish. Both methods are producing solid results. Sturgeon fishing remains strong.  The catch-and-release sturgeon fishing is open into the spring when it changes to the "keep season" on April 24th. Up at the NW Angle...  As temps are getting colder, most are in the woods hunting and not fall fishing, however, for those who bundle up, fishing continues to be excellent.     A nice mixed bag with walleyes, saugers, perch, pike and crappies being caught. Very good muskie fishing with the colder water temps and shorter days.  Some big fish and some good numbers are being caught amongst the islands.  Both casting and trolling is getting it done.  
    • gimruis
      I hunt in the rifle zone so I don't have a need to use a shotgun to hunt deer, but I would be looking at this if there was ever a need to.   There could be state legislation introduced next summer that eliminates the shotgun zone completely.  It has bipartisan support.  Wisconsin removed theirs years ago and MN is usually later to follow.  They've tried to pass it more than once and it came up just short both times.  Probably just a matter of time.
    • Wanderer
      Oh, h e l l no! 
    • leech~~
      Screw that, here's whatch need!  😆   Power-Shok Rifled Slug 10 Gauge 766 Grain Grain Weight: 766 Shotshell Length: 3-1/2in / 89mm Muzzle Velocity: 1280
    • Wanderer
      20 ga has become a real popular deer round in the last 5 or so years.  The rifled barrels are zinging those sabot slugs with rifle like accuracy out to 100 yards easily.  Some go so far as dialing in for a 200 yard shot but really, by 150 they’re falling off pretty low.   I have a single shot Ultraslug in 20 ga that shoots really well at 100 yards.  Most everyone I know that has bought a slug gun lately has gotten the Savage 220 in 20ga.  Problem can be finding the shells you want.
    • leech~~
      My son always bugs me about getting a nice light over-under 20ga for grouse hunting.  I say Heck no, I'm getting a 3 1/2" 10ga so I can put as much lead in the air that I can!!     So, I'm keeping my 12ga.  
    • 11-87
      That’s almost exactly what I was thinking.  Have slug barrels for both   One for turkey and one for deer.      I have a 20ga mosseberg as well. (Combo came with the scope but never used.   I always liked the 12 better
    • leech~~
      Wanderer is right on the money and covered it well.  I was wondering too if you had a slug barrel for one of your guns?  If so you could make that your slug gun with a scope, and the other your turkey gun with the Red dot.  As you can afford it. 
    • Wanderer
      Kinda depends on if you want magnification or quick target acquisition.   More magnification options and better accuracy with a scope.  You get what you pay for too so get comfortable with a budget for one.  Tasco and Bushnell work but I find they lose their zero easier, have low contrast and don’t gather light well in low light conditions.  That said, I’m still using one I haven’t replaced yet.  Vortex has been the hot brand for the past several years for bang for the buck.  Good products.  Nothing beats Swarovski though.  Huge dough for those.  Burris is another decent option.   There are some specific models for shotgun/slug hunting in the economy brands and bullet drop compensation (BDC) reticles.  Based on experience I’d recommend not falling for that marketing ploy.   Red dots are usually lower magnification and easier to get on target.  Reasonably accurate but don’t do well with definition, like searching the brush for your target.  I put a HAWKE red dot on a .22 for squirrels and it’s been good.  For turkey, that’s probably the route I’d go.     If your slug shots are normally not too far and too brushy, I’d think a red dot could work there too if you’re only buying 1 scope.  You’ll be better off dimming the reticle to the lowest setting you can easily use to not over shine the target and get a finer aim point.   If you don’t have a slug barrel, you might appreciate one of those.  I had a browning with a smoothbore slug barrel that shot Brenneke 2-3/4 inch well.  The 11-87 would well fitted with a cantelever rifled barrel. 
    • 11-87
      Looking for recommendations on scope or red dot    I basically hunt turkey and whitetail, live in southern MN. So it’s all deer/ shotgun    looking to add a scope/ red dot as my eyes don’t work like they used to to with the open sights.    my gun options are 11/87 12. Browning BPS 12    not looking for the most expensive or the cheapest    pros and cons of one over the other
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.