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Manziel Debate


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Yes it is but we're talking QB's and not receivers here.

What does it matter? You're going to give credit to one end of the play but not the other? C'mon.

If you guys don't like Johnny because of his off the field antics then I'm fine with that, but don't be hypocritical and fraudulent when talking about what he does on the field. The "jump ball" play was mentioned as one of his negatives, yet the Vikings LIVED on that play for years and it made people wet their pants every time Moss caught the ball. Now, we don't want anything to do with it? Puh-lease.

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CaptainMusky

LMT are there wide receivers on this team equivalent to Moss, Carter and reed?

The main difference in many of the jump balls JM throws are that the receiver and defender have a chance at it. Looking back on Cunningham and culpepper most were thrown to a location it would either be incomplete or caught by our receiver.

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Eric Wettschreck

What does it matter? You're going to give credit to one end of the play but not the other? C'mon.

quote]

It's not C'mon, it's C'mon man!!!!

I'll give credit to Moss for his ability to go up 2 feet above any defender, on an uncatchable ball, and make a play. All the QB had to do was toss it in the air and hope for the best. This has nothing to do with QB ability and everything to do with receiver ability..............and you know this. So, C'mon man. My little sister could have tossed up a jump ball for Moss. That doesn't make her some kind of NFL super star.

Yes, the Vikings lived on this for a few years. Then the stud receivers left and the so-so QB was exposed as the inaccurate dufus he always was. Playmaker? Not so much.

Again, Jonny ball will be fun to watch in the NFL for like 3 games, then he's toast unless he has a stacked offense to play with. Iffin he's with an average or below average offense (See Vikings) he's done.

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I think folks are picking the fly dung out of the pepper just because they don't like Manziel for no other reason than they're afraid he might actually be pretty good.

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Eric Wettschreck

Nah, the fly dung in the pepper is that he isn't as good as the price tag he'll come with.

I don't see many people saying he isn't good. What he isn't is as good as the hype.

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CaptainMusky

I'm not afraid he will be pretty good. I'm pretty sure he won't be, but if he is it will only be because he is in a good system and makes considerable changes to his mechanics. He has a desire to win which is awesome but he also has many attributes that would cause most people to pull their hair out.

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He has a desire to win which is awesome but he also has many attributes that would cause most people to pull their hair out.

Like Brett Favre?

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CaptainMusky

Manziel has some gunslinger like favre but favre never had many of the issues with mechanics and certainly had far superior arm strength.

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Manziel has some gunslinger like favre but favre never had many of the issues with mechanics and certainly had far superior arm strength.

Please, feel free to go into detail comparing the throwing mechanics of Brett Favre and Johnny Manziel.

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DrJuice1980

I think folks are picking the fly dung out of the pepper just because they don't like Manziel for no other reason than they're afraid he might actually be pretty good.

I'm not scared of him being good, I just don't see his game transitioning to the NFL. He's obviously a solid athlete with good football skills, just like Rex Grossman, Tim Tebow, Jamarcus Russel, insert another college QB that couldn't transition. What I see is the whole picture and what's most consistent in his game, maybe if that tent pole wasn't in your way you'd be able to see through the flashy plays. Sell me the steak, not the sizzle.

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I'm not afraid he will be pretty good. I'm pretty sure he won't be, but if he is it will only be because he is in a good system and makes considerable changes to his mechanics. He has a desire to win which is awesome but he also has many attributes that would cause most people to pull their hair out.

You change the way he plays and you kill the player. He's a "different" kind of QB...you either embrace it as a team and coaching staff or you let it walk.

I've said it on here many times...he brings to the table so many things that CAN NOT be coached...so don't try to coach them. Covet them. Instincts, being at the top of that list. The coach(es) who gets him will be the key to everything.

Nobody can say for sure if ANY of the QB's or drafted position players will make it or not in the NFL...my stance is you have to take a chance on a guy that can be really special...a guy that can give you something no other team has. That IS Johnny Football in this draft.

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CaptainMusky

Mechanics and instincts are two different things. He has instincts which is what I surmise you bare getting at when you say "don't change the way he plays", but being a short qb and not throwing the ball over the top or consistently holding the ball around his waist when in the pocket or "trying to make plays" will kill him in the NFL. Exact same things that plagued tebow. No one ever questioned his instincts but his mechanics are terrible.

Tebow worked hard on his mechanics before the draft and after but wasn't able to fix it. We know how his fairy tale ended.

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You change the way he plays and you kill the player. He's a "different" kind of QB...you either embrace it as a team and coaching staff or you let it walk.

I've said it on here many times...he brings to the table so many things that CAN NOT be coached...so don't try to coach them. Covet them. Instincts, being at the top of that list. The coach(es) who gets him will be the key to everything.

Nobody can say for sure if ANY of the QB's or drafted position players will make it or not in the NFL...my stance is you have to take a chance on a guy that can be really special...a guy that can give you something no other team has. That IS Johnny Football in this draft.

Nailed. It.

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CaptainMusky

Hypothetically speaking, IF Spielman/Frazier have Manziel as their #1 QB on the board how does that make you feel?

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I don't understand the question...it makes no sense.

If you're referring to the Ponder pick a few years ago, it's a really bad analogy. I'm assuming you think that Ponder was our #1 QB on the board heading into a draft with the likes of Luck and RG III. I believe Ponder was maybe the 5th QB off the board when we selected him.

To answer your question...I'd be happy.

***I see you are also comparing him to Tebow a lot. Not many people are using the Tebow comparison to describe his play. Russell Wilson is who his game matches up with in the NFL and who the so-called "experts" compare him to when describing his play.

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BuckSutherland

I dont think any of this matters anyways. Right now the Texans have the worst record. We would pick fourth if the draft were today. Atlanta and Washington would be second and third. So, if Houston finishes last, and there is a real good chance they will. I see them taking Panziel. He is a Texas kid and Schaub is done, and I doubt they trust the other guy.

If they dont take him Atlanta is not gonna pick him up. Then the Rams get Washington's pick and I would bet they stick with Bradford or trade to Tampa so they can get Clowney.

We just need to be praying we dont win anymore games from here on out. Washington and Atlanta play each other this weekend so if we lose we move into third spot.

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CaptainMusky

Zepman it makes perfect sense. If the guys (spielman and frazier) that reached for Ponder and have been lambasted here by many (including LMT, BigDave, etc) have manziel as their #1 guy does that give you a warm fuzzy feeling? Have they "finally gotten it right" or ????

Tebow wasn't as much of a passer as compared to manziel but take a look at the mechanics and they are very similar. With manziels small stature and that motion coupled with constantly holding the ball down around his waist will lead to big problems.

Look at the release point for Brees and Wilson both small qbs who are great passers. Not even remotely comparable to manziel.

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Tebow wasn't as much of a passer as compared to manziel but take a look at the mechanics and they are very similar. With manziels small stature and that motion coupled with constantly holding the ball down around his waist will lead to big problems.

Look at the release point for Brees and Wilson both small qbs who are great passers. Not even remotely comparable to manziel.

Any comparison of Johnny Football and Tim Tebow ends any shred of credibility what-so-ever. You should quit watching Purdue vs. Indiana and turn on an SEC game once in a while.

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Zepman it makes perfect sense. If the guys (spielman and frazier) that reached for Ponder and have been lambasted here by many (including LMT, BigDave, etc) have manziel as their #1 guy does that give you a warm fuzzy feeling? Have they "finally gotten it right" or ????

Compare the stats of Johnny Manziel and Christian Ponder and then you tell me. Johnny Football has more yards and Touchdowns in only 2 years than Ponder had in 4. And JF does it all while playing in the toughest conference in college football. You guys do get that Johnny Football is only a 21 year old college sophomore, right?

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CaptainMusky

You would have been on to something big Dave had you at least said purdue and Wisconsin at least then you would have had the alma maters for the two pro qbs being referenced.

No credibility huh? Watch some film of the mechanics of both tebow and manziel and if you don't see a similarity YOU are the one with lost credibility.

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CaptainMusky

All stats aside IF spielman and Frazier think this is their guy and all you guys have said from day one is "they don't know talent" what does that mean? Did they get it right this time? The ONE time according to you?

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Johnny football will have a fine NFL career, until someone blows out his MCL, PCL and ACL. When is the last time a scrambling, running QB has won a championship in modern day NFL football? Steve Young?

Take away his running stats he is just another Andre Ware. History reveals Heisman quarterbacks find NFL difficult

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CaptainMusky

Oh boy big Dave how did anyone guess you would find some crimson tide reference for manziel. Could you be any more transparent?

Yeah Saban's comment about Manziel having a place in the NFL sure hold a lot of weight considering all of his success in the NFL. This couldn't have been any more laughable even if LMT included some video highlight! What a joke.

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This couldn't have been any more laughable even if LMT included some video highlight!

Yes, by now we all are fully aware you're afraid of the truth. Back to under your rock before your shadow makes you pee your pants again.

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Hypothetically speaking, IF Spielman/Frazier have Manziel as their #1 QB on the board how does that make you feel?

If Spielman/Frasier still HAVE a draft board next year the fans should be burning their Viking jerseys, helga horns, and season tickets in a dumpster in front of Winter Park.

Seriously, if those two clowns still have a job after this season is over there should be a parade of pitchforks and torches heading down 494.

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BuckSutherland

Johnny football will have a fine NFL career, until someone blows out his MCL, PCL and ACL. When is the last time a scrambling, running QB has won a championship in modern day NFL football? Steve Young?

You are correct sir. The running QB has always been good for solid regular season play, but come play off time they get their a$$es handed to them. Lets look at Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Ben Rothlisberger, Tom Brady and Eli Manning. They have won most of the Superbowls since 2000. Throw in the ones that Rodgers and Brees won. They only run enough to move the pocket and you can really see the trend. None of the QBs mentioned are considered "running" qbs at all.

I wish Johnny all the luck and if we land him I really wish him luck, but 15 years from now he wont be anything compared to a guy like Luck.

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