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Manziel Debate


DrJuice1980

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I wouldn't say he's the most polarizing ever. The hype surrounding Tebow was just as unrelenting. I recall a ton of debate about Vince Young and Reggie Bush the year they came out as well. And heck, as we get a few weeks closer to the draft we're going to be incredibly tired of hearing about Jadaveon Clowney (if you're not already) and whether he has the desire to play football.

These debates are as much driven by the need for sports networks and websites to fill the 24 hr news cycle than anything the athletes are actually doing off the field.

Need to fill 3 minutes on Sports Center or get a bunch of clicks on your website - run story on Johnny/Jadaveon.

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I wouldn't say he's the most polarizing ever. The hype surrounding Tebow was just as unrelenting. I recall a ton of debate about Vince Young and Reggie Bush the year they came out as well. And heck, as we get a few weeks closer to the draft we're going to be incredibly tired of hearing about Jadaveon Clowney (if you're not already) and whether he has the desire to play football.

These debates are as much driven by the need for sports networks and websites to fill the 24 hr news cycle than anything the athletes are actually doing off the field.

Need to fill 3 minutes on Sports Center or get a bunch of clicks on your website - run story on Johnny/Jadaveon.

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The same can be said for any player. Clowney did nothing last season and his hype is based purely on his 40 time and the fact that he knocked the Michigan RB's helmet off on an unblocked tackle. There plenty of articles out there talking him up as a can't miss #1 pick.

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Sorry Juan, he is much more than just a 40 time and an unblocked tackle. Dude can flat out play. He is a freak, a specimen, a guy well worthy of a #1 pick. I have nothing against these guys getting paid, they should for all the $$$$ somebody else makes of them. I have no problem with the possibility of Clowney taking time off because of a risk of injury and a pay day. I have no problem with JM finally cashing that big boy check. The character issues shouldnt be about the money. Theyre about the leadership, the late night parties, "making it rain", skipping out on hosting camps because youre still drunk from the night before, Mr. You-Tube highlight reels of yourself w/ dude perfect, "hey, look at me!" attitude, etc. The only thing you can come at Clowney for is maybe not going 100% and risking becoming a millionaire. Can you blame him? No, blame the NCAA.

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The character issues shouldnt be about the money. Theyre about the leadership, the late night parties, "making it rain", skipping out on hosting camps because youre still drunk from the night before, Mr. You-Tube highlight reels of yourself w/ dude perfect, "hey, look at me!" attitude, etc.

All of that stuff is only a distraction for sports fans. Have you read any teammates ripping him? By almost all accounts his teammates and coaches love him. In terms of leadership that matters, he brought the program to greater prominence and often put up amazing performances that led to victories. His production is what former and future teammates and coaches will care about.

I have no idea if his skills will translate in the NFL, but most of his indiscretions can be chalked up to being a 21-year old.

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Well you could argue Manziel had the same financial risk in 2013 by getting hurt after winning the Heisman his freshman season. He proceeded to put up 4114 passing yards, 37 tds, a 70% completion percentage, 759 yards rushing, 9 rushing tds and played every game.

Clowney had 41 tackles and 3 sacks. I have no doubt Clowney has the physical tools to be a great pro, but we'll see how motivated he is after he cashes that first check.

Manziel has the motivation and competitive drive to be the best. That's what I like about him.

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Is Johnny Manziel the most polarizing player ever? I've never seen so many varying opinions on one guy before.

The haters don't like him because he doesn't fit into their prototypical mold for a QB which they live and die by, even though he still puts up the stats. This frustrates their minuscule minds because they can't comprehend how to evaluate him. Therefore, they just disregard him completely in a fit of anger like a 3-year old child who can't figure out why the square peg won't fit into the round hole.

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Everything I have read about JM he is a great team leader, his players respect him. He leads the team on the field with confidence.

He is the player that knows more about football then the coaches, and he is eager to learn everything there is. He is a quick learner of play books, and can execute the plays on the field. I am not sure where you dream up this stuff about his lack of leadership?

Haters gunna Hate!

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Rubes love dem Rubes!

Have fun "leading" and NFL squad when its all about "Me, Me, Me, and Me!" The way he plays spews selfishness, lack of regard for the team, and "pad MY stats." Not really friendly in an NFL locker room.

FYI fellas, quick reminder, the pro game is a different type of game than the college game. Just go ask Mr. Saban, Mr. Weiss, Mr. Spurrier, Mr. Holtz, Mr. Petrino, etc. Or you can ask Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, soon to be RGIII, Joey Harrington (Joey Football, huge stats, similarities? all signs point to YES!), Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, etc.

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The same can be said for any player. Clowney did nothing last season and his hype is based purely on his 40 time and the fact that he knocked the Michigan RB's helmet off on an unblocked tackle. There plenty of articles out there talking him up as a can't miss #1 pick.

I agree 100% with this Juan G.

I've seen Clowney play probably 10 times over the past two years and never once was I even slightly impressed.

Lack of effort from a player playing a position that requires RELENTLESS effort is very concerning to me. His own college football coach said he was "a lazy football player". Double concerning.

He is a physical freak though...no doubt.

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I've seen Clowney play probably 10 times over the past two years and never once was I even slightly impressed.

Lack of effort from a player playing a position that requires RELENTLESS effort is very concerning to me. His own college football coach said he was "a lazy football player". Double concerning.

Makes sense than why he is projected as #1 or top 5 for sure. Maybe these scouts didnt watch the games you watched OR maybe you just dont understand the game of football and you thought he looked bad because he wasnt in on the tackle but did his job to not open up a hole.

Football isnt all about stats. To guys like LMIT it is and theres nothing else. Its easy for him to think that way because he cant comprehend more than reading the stat line and analyzing play is WAY over his head. He makes comments like "you guys act like a 3yr old trying to put square peg in round hole" yet posts a video of JM running around like a chicken with his head cut off, heaving up a duck in the middle of 4 defenders, only from the miracle to happen that his teammate comes down with it for an 8 yrd gain and first down. Like, wow guys look at this highlight! That pretty much sums up LMIT's understanding of the game of football.

Rubes love Rubes.

Hey LMIT:

Rinse, Repeat!

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Yes, the pro game is much different than college, much harder in fact. Stands to reason that a player who is going to dominate in the pros should dominate in college right? If not then should we disregard college stats altogether and just draft based off combine measurables?

By your rationale Dr. Juice, we should never draft a QB for fear that he might be the next Ryan Leaf instead of Drew Brees. How about a list of all the bust defensive players taken in the first round? The Vikes have a list a mile long...

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Football isnt all about stats. To guys like LMIT it is and theres nothing else. Its easy for him to think that way because he cant comprehend more than reading the stat line and analyzing play is WAY over his head.

He makes comments like "you guys act like a 3yr old trying to put square peg in round hole" yet posts a video of JM running around like a chicken with his head cut off, heaving up a duck in the middle of 4 defenders, only from the miracle to happen that his teammate comes down with it for an 8 yrd gain and first down. Like, wow guys look at this highlight!

Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

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Well with a top 10 pick you have to be careful. If youre gonna pick apart my posts show your pair and say what you'd look for. Should it just be the guy with the best stats? Im sure we could find some DII guys who have massive stats, do we include them based just off numbers?

There is no direct science. You analyze all aspects of the game. I'd take a guy with average stats that had no support vs a guy who had arguably the best O-Line and best WR in the college game.

How'd they go 9-4 with such a "Great" player? Selfish play, thats how. Learn a lesson from this kids. Football is 100% a team sport.

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That's easy...A&M had one of the worst defenses in all of college football last year.

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Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

How so there big guy?

Hint: elaborate for once, with intellectual input. not some meme

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That's easy...A&M had one of the worst defenses in all of college football last year.

Is that your excuse when he fails to impress in the NFL?

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How so there big guy?

Unwind the panties (see above about fits of anger), stop punching at the air, and rationalize it out for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for perfectly illustrating my previous point, RE: haters.

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Clowny is the prototypical "work-out warrior". Basically, he's just big and fast...he's not that strong at all.

It's very hard to find anyone calling him a "great" football player...he simply wasn't at SC. It's all about what he MIGHT be able to do if he finally decides he wants to play football.

Lack of effort, desire, and competitiveness are much bigger red-flags than anything that Manziel may have done (off field)as a 20-21 year old kid.

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Juice...you obviously never tuned in to an A&M game this year to watch young JF play...if you had, you would have heard over and over and over how BAD the A&M defense was.

There are no excuses...that was a fact.

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It's very hard to find anyone calling him a "great" football player...he simply wasn't at SC. It's all about what he MIGHT be able to do if he finally decides he wants to play football.

You do know he was a unanimous All American as a true sophomore and Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC right?

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Unwind the panties (see above about fits of anger), stop punching at the air, and rationalize it out for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for perfectly illustrating my previous point, RE: haters.

How insightful and intellectual.... I bet your searching for a Manziel circus throw video to post and add to your reasoning for why he will succeed.

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Getanet...All "gifts" IMO.

His own coach even threatened to bench or release him from his schalorship/team halfway through the year because of the "cancer" like effect his "laziness" was having on the rest of the team.

41 tackles...3 sacks for the so-called best defensive prospect in years. Give me a break.....

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I bet your searching for a Manziel circus throw video to post and add to your reasoning for why he will succeed.

Why would I do that when, according to you, I'm supposedly all about the stats?

Put down the shovel and walk away. No, run, while you still can.

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"Gifts" huh? Didn't know they just hands those All-American awards out. I'll add that to my Xmas list, it will look great on my resume and LinkedIn profile.

There's no question he had a disappointing year this past season, but it's silly to say he did nothing special in college or was simply handed All-American recognition as a true sophomore.

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Juice...you obviously never tuned in to an A&M game this year to watch young JF play...if you had, you would have heard over and over and over how BAD the A&M defense was.

There are no excuses...that was a fact.

Actually I saw quite a few of his games over the last 2 years and saw many parts of his game that were flawed. Like flushing a pocket for ghost rushers, running backwards 20 yrds to gain 2, throwing into double/triple coverage, etc. The difference is I wasnt pitching a tent over that 2 yard gain. If you were at LMIT or Big Dave's house you had to put up the plastic sheet in front of you like you were seated in the front row at a Gallagher show to avoid the DNA shower.

LMIT, is this true? A&M had a bad defense? I thought a great QB solved everything? HAHAHA!!

Rubes love Rubes...

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I haven't read any of this thread.

Not only do I love Johnny football the Vikings have to get him somehow someway.

It may flop but its worth the risk IMO.

Carry on!

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I haven't read any of this thread.

Do yourself a favor and stick to that plan, unless you want your head to explode.

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I'm starting to hope he ends up a Viking just for the fun of it. If he ends up a Texan,Brown or Raider it won't be as fun anymore lol.

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I haven't read any of this thread.

Summary-

Big Dave 2: Jonny Manziel is 6'6 and a really good footballer.

Lmitout :take a knee for johnny!

Dr.J : NO. JF is a headcase and is 5'10. We need a Middle Line Backer!

Big Dave2: (posts a link of an obscure story about how johnny football is actually 6'3)

Lmit: Dr. J is a stupid head

Dr. J: No, you are a stupid head. How about sticking your stupid head neck out.

LMT: grasping at straws (insert image)

Dr. J: Put your neck out and say what you'd do

LMT: stop digging

Big Dave 2: JOHNNY FOOTBALL IS a 21 Year old kid! He's gonna grow to be at least 6'1!

smile

(FWIW I actually agree with Lmit and Big dave 2 on johnny foosball. Weird, i'm not sure that happens often)

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