Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Manziel Debate


DrJuice1980

Recommended Posts

So a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for only moving up a few spots? Thats crazy talk. Regardless of what year pick we give up thats just WAY TOO MUCH! Crazy talk. I get it that certain woman can be captivated by this guy but all you guys? To this extent? Wow. Get your heads screwed back on fellas.

Every year this happens, talk talk talk about the QB position and most of the time only a couple are selected first round and when its the other way and multiple QBs are taken 1st round then theres plenty of busts. Give up the farm for Andrew Luck, sure. Manziel? no way in he!!

The next person that walks by, ask them to pinch you cause you all need to wake up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Big Dave2

    181

  • DrJuice1980

    176

  • CaptainMusky

    173

  • LMITOUT

    135

I hate to tell you, but to move up 3 spots, if we can get by with only giving up our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd this year, it would be a steal. I was under valuing it a ton, by adding next years second, rather then this years.

More then likely it will be more like this years 1st, and next years 1st, plus a second and third. But that is way to much. You can figure in the top 10, 3 positions is worth this years 1-3 picks. More if you want to go more then 3 spots.

Draft chart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crazy talk out of your arse man. That would be too much, way too much. Are we really talking like this Manziel kid is that legit? Andrew Luck legit? Its the rubes that love him because he's a rube.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally wouldn't trade up to get anyone in this draft, If anything I would trade down and stock pile for the future.

The cost of picks to move up would be worth it IF your guy ends up to be a franchise player because in reality them picks your giving up don't end up panning out most of the time.

Hard part is there are no guarantees, if you trade the farm and the guy is a bust it stings ultra hard, if you just whiff on a guy but didn't spend the farm atleast it don't sting as bad.

I'd just hold tight and take the best guy available or take a trade to move down if there is some eager team to move up for a guy they want.

As a fan though if they think they have their guy and move up to get him I wouldn't mind, Spielman has shown he has a pair so he would do what it takes to move up for a guy if we think he's "THE ONE".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think they should move up or down. I think they just take the best player that is on the board at #8, there will be a good playmaker available then. I agree if they think there is a star they want, go get him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are we really talking like this Manziel kid is that legit? Andrew Luck legit?

Please! You should be asking that question in reverse. Is Andrew Luck Johnny Football Legit.

I know you aren't much for facts and figures but you should probably take a peek at johnny footballs stats once and then Andrew Luck's. You would see that JF's stats are better than AL's even though JF played only 2 years, was only a sophomore, played in the toughest conference in college football against the very best opponents college football has to offer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, that is all I have in response to that.

LOL. Luck took a team that was 2-14 to an 11-5 record in one year. First victory of course was against the queens. Followed it up with an 11-5 record this year, and the biggest comeback win in playoff history (28pts). I look at the cast around Luck, and its not that good.

Pretty sure I would take Luck over the little Johnny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you listen to Zimmer...and listen closely...Carr is the guy they're targeting. Blue collar QB with a rocket arm who comes to work first and is the last to leave...

Don't know if they take him at 8...but they'll take him either late in the 1st or early 2nd on a trade up.

Spielmans specialty is trading back in to the 1st....

A trade BACK at 8 would make this even more likely....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zep,

The Raiders are apparently in love with Carr. Sure is moving up on several of the draft boards. Carr learning behind Cassel for a year would sure make sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please! You should be asking that question in reverse. Is Andrew Luck Johnny Football Legit.

I know you aren't much for facts and figures but you should probably take a peek at johnny footballs stats once and then Andrew Luck's. You would see that JF's stats are better than AL's even though JF played only 2 years, was only a sophomore, played in the toughest conference in college football against the very best opponents college football has to offer.

JF has never taken an NFL snap so he has no stats, college stats mean absolutely nothing. There is a never ending list of college QB's that had monster college stats then come into the NFL and take a dump. To compare a college kid to a guy that has proven himself to be an upper echelon NFL QB is preposterous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jm has a couple things, he has the drive to win games, and be a leader on the field. Them are things you can't teach. Add his stats and talents he has the potential to be a decent QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

potential....

Ryan Leaf had potential

Jamarcus Russel had potential

Christian Ponder had potential (according to the Vikings)

That and 25 cents might get you a cup of coffee on Senior's day at the local cafe...

I'd take Luck on any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Manziel.

Manziel is waaaaaaaay more worried about how rich he gets and how fast he gets there, than any long term NFL career. He even knows he will be a flash in the pan. Not saying he does not possess talent, he does, just not going to endure the grind that is the NFL. He is too busy patenting his slogans, catch phrases and nickmnames so he can promote himself and make bookoo bucks before he is run out of town on an old horse...

I like Carr, I like McCarron... I'd even go Murray. the three ring circus that is Manziel... no thanks.

Good Luck!

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Manziel is already rich. He family is in the oil business. He definitely craves the spotlight, which is something money can't buy, but he'll be fine financially with our without football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Potential, and skills they show in college is all anyone has to go off of, for any player. Including Luck.

Of all the QB in the draft, Manziel is not a safe bet, but he has the biggest upside of anyone in the draft. He could also flop.

Bortles is probably your safest bet to a starter as there is in the draft, but he will never be a franchise QB.

Bridgewater, I dont think will make it in the NFL, he will be a TJack type QB.

Carr needs a lot polishing, and may turn into a starter after a couple years of practices, and holding the clip board.

I would take Manziel over any of them, then Carr, then Bortles. But I would sit all of them for at least a year, before starting them.

As for the rest of the QB's, they are going to be pure luck if they amount to anything as for a starter is concerned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bet McCarron ends up a starter. Much better value than Manziel.

As far as money goes, the rich never stop trying to get richer. You're kidding yourself if you don't think he's in it for the money as much if not more than the spotlight. He knew his value could potentially never be greater than right now, that's why he came out. The spot light would be on him just as much in school as in the NFL. But A torn ACL in college could potentially drop him back several rounds. He wants Rock star money and status. If it wasn't money driven, why all the patent apps for his slogans? He already said he's coming out with clothing with all the sayings. More money!

Good luck!

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, all those things are reasons I cannot stand the guy. I dont remember any player coming into the league that was as full of himself as he seems to be. Competitor? YES, but its all the other things that bring upon distractions.

Just think if he put all that unnecessary effort from his self-promoting into refining his craft how good he could be.

Much rather have a Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck type, lace em up and lets play. Dont bother me with all the other stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JF has never taken an NFL snap so he has no stats, college stats mean absolutely nothing. There is a never ending list of college QB's that had monster college stats then come into the NFL and take a dump. To compare a college kid to a guy that has proven himself to be an upper echelon NFL QB is preposterous.

I'm not comparing JF's stats to Luck's NFL stats. I'm comparing 2 years of college stats to 2 years of college stats. I'm pretty sure that Luck didn't have any NFL stats before he was drafted either so it was his college stats that were analyzed. I'm just asking you to analyze JF's college stats the same way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, that is all I have in response to that.

Yes WOW, Johnny Football's stats are really that good. It's about time you came around to being wowed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luck is the definition of an NFL QB, JM is a hybrid. When is the last time a hybrid did anything semi-spectacular? Mike Vick? He aint no Mike Vick. He's not as athletic as Steve Young either. He's a fad, just like the read option without any wrinkles. He will be eaten up. Big Dave you're just brainwashed into thinking these great SEC defenses are similar to the NFL. Not even close my friend, not even close. Not being big man on campus will also have an effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When has a "hybrid" done anything? I would call Russel Wilson a "hybrid" and if I do recall he is the latest super bowl champ homeboy!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When is the last time a hybrid did anything semi-spectacular?

Russel Wilson. 2 time Pro-Bowler. Super Bowl Champion.

Does that count?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kaepernick is carving out a nice career for himself in SF as well. Pretty solid stuff for a guy just a few years in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He rushes on average for 32 yrds a game versus 202 yrds passing. Thats hybrid to you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russell Wilson:

Weaknesses

Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level.

Johnny Manziel:

Weaknesses

Has an unorthodox body type with marginal height, rounded shoulders, an underdeveloped body and very big feet that almost look clumsy. Will need to learn to do a better job protecting his body and sliding. Feels pocket ghosts and often takes off running at the second flash of coverage. Undisciplined -- plays his own offense and presses to make plays. Cannot see over the pocket easily and almost never steps up into it, creating extra difficulties for OL coaches to coordinate blocking schemes and for offensive linemen to anticipate where the pocket will be. Dances around the pocket too much and creates needless sacks rolling into protection when the pocket is clean. Has not worked from under center, and footwork and set-up will require refinement. Often throws the ball up in the air and relies on big receivers to adjust to it and make plays, highly benefiting from the playmaking ability of Mike Evans. Tends to overshoot the deep ball and throw off his back foot, leading to some underthrows (too many dirtballs on the move) and diminished accuracy. Needlessly pats the ball when he scans the field. Could stand to do a better job carrying out play-action fakes. Has not developed a reputation as a worker or for doing the extras. Suspect intangibles -- not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words. Carries a sense of entitlement and prima-donna arrogance seeking out the bright lights of Hollywood. Is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game. Lacks ideal starting experience (only two years), operated a non-traditional offense and has a lot to learn.

Maybe he all of a sudden corrected all that stuff because he showed off at his pro-day in a helmet and shoulder pads.

Rubes love the Rubes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He rushes on average for 32 yrds a game versus 202 yrds passing. Thats hybrid to you?

Yes. If that's not the case, who would you label a hybrid QB?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike Vick.

Hybrids do not come around often because their game cant transition, unless the athletic talent exceeds what they lack in being a prototypical QB. Mike Vick was an absolute freak, like him or not (I do not) he could do things that we had never seen and it will be a very long time until we see them again. Manziel couldnt carry Mike Vick's jock.

You cant just look at a stat line and draw a line from #5 and up for QB rushing leaders and say "These guys are hybrids" thats one of the dumbest excuses out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So then where is the line drawn? Other then right under Vick, and Manziel?

I would think that his almost 70% pass completion over the past 2 years, 165 QB rating, or his almost 8000 yards passing in 2 years may qualify him as a passer. Or his 63/22 TD to INT rating, But I guess not by your book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • mulefarm
      With the early ice out, how is the curlyleaf pondweed doing?
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   The big basin, otherwise known as Big Traverse Bay, is ice free.  Zippel Bay and Four Mile Bay are ice free as well.  Everything is shaping up nicely for the MN Fishing Opener on May 11th. With the walleye / sauger season currently closed, most anglers are targeting sturgeon and pike.  Some sturgeon anglers are fishing at the mouth of the Rainy River, but most sturgeon are targeted in Four Mile Bay or the Rainy River.  Hence, pike are the targeted species on the south shore and various bays currently.   Pike fishing this time of year is a unique opportunity, as LOW is border water with Canada, the pike season is open year round. The limit is 3 pike per day with one being able to be more than 40 inches. All fish 30 - 40 inches must be released. Back bays hold pike as they go through the various stages of the spawn.  Deadbait under a bobber, spinners, spoons and shallow diving crankbaits are all viable options.   Four Mile Bay, Bostic Bay and Zippel Bay are all small water and boats of various sizes work well. On the Rainy River...  Great news this week as we learned sturgeon will not be placed on the endangered species list by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.     The organization had to make a decision by June 30 and listing sturgeon could have ended sturgeon fishing.  Thankfully, after looking at the many success stories across the nation, including LOW and the Rainy River, sturgeon fishing and successful sturgeon management continues.   A good week sturgeon fishing on the Rainy River.  Speaking to some sturgeon aficionados, fishing will actually get even better as water temps rise.     Four Mile Bay at the mouth of the Rainy River near the Wheeler's Point Boat Ramp is still producing good numbers of fish, as are various holes along the 42 miles of navigable Rainy River from the mouth to Birchdale.   The sturgeon season continues through May 15th and resumes again July 1st.   Oct 1 - April 23, Catch and Release April 24 - May 7, Harvest Season May 8 - May 15, Catch and Release May 16 - June 30, Sturgeon Fishing Closed July 1 - Sep 30, Harvest Season If you fish during the sturgeon harvest season and you want to keep a sturgeon, you must purchase a sturgeon tag for $5 prior to fishing.    One sturgeon per calendar year (45 - 50" inclusive, or over 75"). Most sturgeon anglers are either a glob of crawlers or a combo of crawlers and frozen emerald shiners on a sturgeon rig, which is an 18" leader with a 4/0 circle hook combined with a no roll sinker.  Local bait shops have all of the gear and bait. Up at the NW Angle...  A few spots with rotten ice, but as a rule, most of the Angle is showing off open water.  In these parts, most are looking ahead to the MN Fishing Opener.  Based on late ice fishing success, it should be a good one.  
    • leech~~
      Nice fish. I moved to the Sartell area last summer and just thought it was windy like this everyday up here? 🤭
    • Rick G
      Crazy windy again today.... This is has been the norm this spring. Between the wind and the cold fronts, fishing has been more challenging for me than most years.  Panfish have been moving in and out of the shallows quite a bit. One day they are up in the slop, the next they are out relating to cabbage or the newly sprouting lilly pads.  Today eye guy and I found them in 4-5 ft of water, hanging close to any tree branches that happened to be laying in the water.  Bigger fish were liking a 1/32 head and a Bobby Garland baby shad.   Highlight of the day way this healthy 15incher
    • monstermoose78
    • monstermoose78
      As I typed that here came a hen.  IMG_7032.mov   IMG_7032.mov
    • monstermoose78
      So far this morning nothing but non turkeys. 
    • monstermoose78
      Well yesterday I got a little excited and let a turkey get to close and I hit the blind!!
    • smurfy
      good......you?? living the dream..in my basement playing internet thug right now!!!!!! 🤣 working on getting the boat ready.......bought a new cheatmaster locator for the boat so working on that.   waiting for warmer weather to start my garden!!!
    • monstermoose78
      How is everyone doing? Holy moly it’s chilly this morning I stayed in bed and will hunt later today when it warms up.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.