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Manziel Debate


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Bump...

For those that say "bring him in for a workout, I'll give you my opinion then." What a workout against air? What a chicken doodie excuse. I think you've seen enough to analyze his stock. If not I'll sum it up right here and save you some time:

Average arm strength, nothing special. Quick. Shifty. Breaks containment too much, not comfortable in the pocket. Gimmicky moves. Average at best accuracy, again nothing special. Selfish. Great college player with a lot of intangibles. Won't be able to handle the aggressiveness and speed of an NFL defense.

You got all that from that one game that you watched him play all season? Why are you not an NFL scout?

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  • Big Dave2

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PurpleFloyd
That knee is going to drive him down the boards. He's decent, definitely not worth a first round pick.
That is OK. We have lots of holes in the roster to fill so we can wait to get him and fill another spot. Brady wasn't worth a first round pick either as well as Wilson. Apparently Tim Couch and Akili Smith were grin
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Mettenberger

Johnny Football's stats beat Mettenberger's in every department. Not even close and Johnny is only a sophomore.

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PurpleFloyd

Don't care about stats. They don't transfer your college stats to the Pro's.I care about Leadership, pocket presence, toughness, being able to make the necessary throws and work ethic which he seems to have.

But aren't his stats 2-0 vs JF?

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DrJuice1980

You got all that from that one game that you watched him play all season? Why are you not an NFL scout?

I got that from watching him play the last 2 years, maybe you don't know how to be critical of a player you got a serious bromance for. Guy has great skills for the college game, those little gimmicks won't work on the big boys. If you think he has a strong and accurate arm then let me ask you, what one game did you get that from?

Why aren't we all NFL scouts? Oh wait I know why you and your pal LMIT couldn't be, you would have to stick your neck out once in a while.

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Don't care about stats. They don't transfer your college stats to the Pro's.I care about Leadership, pocket presence, toughness, being able to make the necessary throws and work ethic which he seems to have.
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PurpleFloyd

Stats matter whether you want to believe it or not.

Well, then take a look at these stats:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating

Looks like ZM is rated 3rd in the country in passing efficiency right ahead of JF. He just isn't asked to throw the ball as often as JF but when he does, he does it more efficiently.

Nothing is saying that Mett is a sure hit. College QB's are always a gamble. I just tend to like the pure pocket passers with size and strong arms over the scrambling types. I also like Carr and Fales as well as a few others. Not so much due to their stat lines but by the way I see them playing on the field.

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Well, then take a look at these stats:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating

Looks like ZM is rated 3rd in the country in passing efficiency right ahead of JF. He just isn't asked to throw the ball as often as JF but when he does, he does it more efficiently.

Since you seem to be back into stats again even though you said that stats don't matter...................You should take a look and compare JM's stats vs. Alabama and ZM's stats vs. Alabama. No Contest. I don't think that too many people could argue that Alabama has one of the best if not THE best defense in college football. If you want to tell how a QB will handle NFL defenses, how better than looking at how they perform against the very best college defenses?

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DrJuice1980

That knee is going to drive him down the boards. He's decent, definitely not worth a first round pick. LSU QBs are system guys and pretty much always have been. I seriously hop the Vikes pass on him too.

I'll give myself a pat on the back and a toot toot on this prediction. Wow what a great foreseeable knee injury mind.....

-Genius DrJuice

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I don't think there's any chance the Vikes take a 1st round QB this year...not unless Bridgewater falls in their lap at 4-7. I don't see that happening.

I really like Murray from Georgia in the 2nd or 3rd...kid can play ball and he's a competitor. I know he's got a knee thing...Vikings seem to like that though....

Carr and Fales are two to watch in the late 1st (if we trade back) or early second round.

Lynch, from Northern Illinois, would be an excellent 4th/5th round pick.

I still would like them to take Johnny Football with their 1st pick...I just don't see it happening.

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JBMasterAngler

Taking Manziel with the 1st pick would be about the equivalent of not having a 1st round pick to begin with.

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Taking Manziel with the 1st pick would be about the equivalent of not having a 1st round pick to begin with.

Would you have said that about Russell Wilson?

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DrJuice1980

Come on Big Dave, seriously? Not even close. Wilson sees the field, Manziel flushes out of the pocket for no reason. Wilson can hit a target when that targets at full stride, Manziel can't even put it close-most of the time. Jeez get off his nuggets man.

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Manziel is twice the quarterback Ponder is.

Just remember that zero doubled is still zero....

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DrJuice1980

Who said anything about Ponder? I think there are a few handfuls of college QBs that could be plugged into this offense and perform the same, most of which you guys have mentioned as our savior.. Most of you guys are totally lost.

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Let him get flushed out of the pocket. Nobody puts it on a receiver in stride better than Johnny Football.

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DrJuice1980

He runs out of a perfect pocket ALL the time! Then he hits a WR on a stop route or Evans' 6-5 frame reaches over a DB to pull it down. Take your blinders off LMIT.

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CaptainMusky

Maybe the stop route is actually a go route but the receiver has to adjust to poor execution by the QB?

Big Dave to your question about Russell Wilson, I guess I would say I absolutely would have said the same thing about him. To me there was nothing compelling from his college game that would have proven to be a #1 pick BUT he didnt make mistakes or poor throws. So, in that instance, I see where you are going in that Wilson is obviously excelling and he fell to a later round, hindsight that is a bargain and a brain fart for all who passed, but I really dont see comparing Wilson and Manziel though.

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Big Dave to your question about Russell Wilson, I guess I would say I absolutely would have said the same thing about him. To me there was nothing compelling from his college game that would have proven to be a #1 pick BUT he didnt make mistakes or poor throws. So, in that instance, I see where you are going in that Wilson is obviously excelling and he fell to a later round, hindsight that is a bargain and a brain fart for all who passed, but I really dont see comparing Wilson and Manziel though.

So in other words, you are no better at assessing NFL talent than the scouts that are paid to do so. Thank you for clarifying.

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JF runs out of the pocket because he's short and can't see his receivers. Check out pictures of the guy standing next to other people. He barely comes to the chin of guys 6'5". He's listed as 6'1" but I bet he's barely 5'10".

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None of it matters until you see a guy play in some NFL games.

There are supposed can't miss QB's that come out and they are garbage, then you have QB's that no one thinks are all that and them come out to be Franchise QB's.

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Where did you have Wilson Big Dave on your board?

I have a 2 jobs and a life. I don't bother myself with such foolishness.

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CaptainMusky

Is your life spending so much time here making rhetorical posts critiquing other people's comments while staking no claim to your own opinion? You should be well compensated for that one because you excel at it.

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Maybe the stop route is actually a go route but the receiver has to adjust to poor execution by the QB?

You see poor QB execution, I see the chains moving.

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I was disappointed to hear that they extended the contract of Texas A&M's coach. It would have been a perfect combination having Johnny Football and his coach come to MN. They know each other, the coach knows how to use him, and Johnny is comfortable with the coach. It would be a Win-Win situation, unlike the two mutes the Vikings have now who are afraid of each other's shadows.

Although, there could be some entertainment value if Leslie is retained and Manziel comes to town. While Johnny Football is dropping panties in TCF next year, Leslie would be curled up under the Gatorade table in the fetal position, sucking his thumb, and begging someone to tell him when the game is over so he can run back to the locker room to change his drawers because he didn't understand what he was witnessing on the field and was scared witless.

TAKE A KNEE FOR JOHN-NY!!!

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CaptainMusky

You see poor QB execution, I see the chains moving.

chains moving instead of TD? This is one of the very things people rip ponder for. Not able to hit a receiver in stride. We don't need another one.
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Is your life spending so much time here making rhetorical posts critiquing other people's comments while staking no claim to your own opinion? You should be well compensated for that one because you excel at it.

I gave you my opinion. My opinion is that the Vikings need a QB more than they need a MLB. You are the one offering the opinion that there are no QBs in this draft but then again you would have thought the same about Russell Wilson.

BTW, Johnny football's passing stats this year are almost a mirror image of Russell Wilson's senior year Wisconsin stats. Johnny Football is only a Sophomore.

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