APR 2013?

[mntatonka]

I can't find the 2012 Deer Harvest Report, but in 2011 no zone had a hunter success rate for legal bucks over 17.3%. I find it hard to believe that 90% of anything is getting killed each year.

no no no, now the words have changed from "majority of yearlings are getting killed" to "majority of our harvest is yearlings". So that means that only about 2% of all hunters harvested a buck that was older than 1.5 years. Those other 15% of hunters that harvested a buck shot one that was 1.5 or younger. Again though, those numbers are based on their claim that the majority of the buck harvest is yearlings, so I'm using a straight 90% for that just to prove a large majority.

[mntatonka]

If you hate the concept you'll just continue to see it your way. Google is your friend and if you are interested the data is out there.

I don't hate the concept, it works in some situations. However, I do hate the fact that it was pushed as a population reducing tool, and that it was pushed through based on a flawed study and loaded survey questions. It certainly didn't lower the population in Zone 3, judging by the much higher reports of crop damage. That tells me it didn't work as intended, and should be scrapped for a new plan.

[Getanet]

If you hate the concept you'll just continue to see it your way. Google is your friend and if you are interested the data is out there.

Trust me, I've looked high and low to find any definitive information on the percent of 1.5 year old bucks that get shot in MN. Not conjecture, not the QDMA "report," not guys pulling the stats out of thin air.

If you can post a link where the MN DNR claims X% of yearling bucks get shot each year in MN I will donate $20 to whatever charity you like.

[tfran123]

Non APR registration point in Michigan, would likely be similar here:

1996 – 3,790 bucks – 76% yearlings

1997 – 3,374 bucks – 73% yearlings

1998 – 2,913 bucks – 71% yearlings

1999 – 2,934 bucks – 73% yearlings

2000 – 5,174 bucks – 74% yearlings

2001 – 4,917 bucks – 73% yearlings

2002 – 6,518 bucks – 71% yearlings

2003 – 6,954 bucks – 73% yearlings

2004 – 6,680 bucks – 73% yearlings

2005 – 6,129 bucks – 68% yearlings

2006 – 6,902 bucks – 71% yearlings

2007 – 7,271 bucks – 69% yearlings

2008 - 7,424 bucks - 70% yearlings

That my friends is a large majority. Do the math and tell me how hunting isn't culling bucks prematurely and lowering the chances for deer to mature?

[mntatonka]

Non APR registration point in Michigan, would likely be similar here:

1996 – 3,790 bucks – 76% yearlings

1997 – 3,374 bucks – 73% yearlings

1998 – 2,913 bucks – 71% yearlings

1999 – 2,934 bucks – 73% yearlings

2000 – 5,174 bucks – 74% yearlings

2001 – 4,917 bucks – 73% yearlings

2002 – 6,518 bucks – 71% yearlings

2003 – 6,954 bucks – 73% yearlings

2004 – 6,680 bucks – 73% yearlings

2005 – 6,129 bucks – 68% yearlings

2006 – 6,902 bucks – 71% yearlings

2007 – 7,271 bucks – 69% yearlings

2008 - 7,424 bucks - 70% yearlings

That my friends is a large majority. Do the math and tell me how hunting isn't culling bucks prematurely and lowering the chances for deer to mature?

Where's the link? And how do they take the age? And when will you show something with Minnesota saying with proof that the majority of the yearlings are harvested?

[TruthWalleyes]

If we wanted to collect data on age of male deer harvested, what would be the best method of doing so?

Registering antler points?

[tfran123]

Link: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327052

I'm sure you thought I just made those numbers up.

Didn't say they did it in MN, but the result will be similar. Again, if you want to be narrow minded you'll never see the other side. I'm done doing research for you but feel free as I have 25 other links that all say the same thing, different states and guess what? All the same the result. About 60%-70% of all bucks shot are yearlings, no reason we are any different here in this fine state.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Again, if you want to be narrow minded you'll never see the other side.

That statement goes both ways.....

[Scott K]

If 60-70% of bucks taken are 1.5yo, that would tell me a couple things, 30-40% are older then that, which is about 1/3 or more. And if the majority (60-70%) are 1.5yo, that tells me that 1.5yo are the majority in the woods, so that would explain why that age class is taken more. 30-40% of bucks taken are mature, that seems like a decent ratio if you ask me.

If I relate theat into fishing, I would say 60-70% of walleyes taken are 15-19 inches, and the rest are over 20inches, that sounds like a dream scenario for fishing. But for hunting, it isnt good enough for the antler hunters. Dohkay

[TruthWalleyes]

Also tells me the MAJORITY are OK with out horn P*rn

[tfran123]

If 60-70% of bucks taken are 1.5yo, that would tell me a couple things, 30-40% are older then that, which is about 1/3 or more. And if the majority (60-70%) are 1.5yo, that tells me that 1.5yo are the majority in the woods, so that would explain why that age class is taken more. 30-40% of bucks taken are mature, that seems like a decent ratio if you ask me.

If I relate theat into fishing, I would say 60-70% of walleyes taken are 15-19 inches, and the rest are over 20inches, that sounds like a dream scenario for fishing. But for hunting, it isnt good enough for the antler hunters. Dohkay

Do the math again and before doing so define "mature". Yep it's not a 2.5 YO.

Here is what else is funny, you non-APR guys love throwing out the terms "horn porn" or "antler hunters", don't hear the other side saying meat maggots or brown its down crowd.

[mntatonka]

Link: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327052

I'm sure you thought I just made those numbers up.

Didn't say they did it in MN, but the result will be similar. Again, if you want to be narrow minded you'll never see the other side. I'm done doing research for you but feel free as I have 25 other links that all say the same thing, different states and guess what? All the same the result. About 60%-70% of all bucks shot are yearlings, no reason we are any different here in this fine state.

Michigan hunters have the opportunity to harvest 2 bucks per year, correct? One of which must be at least 4 points in this year's regs. If that's the case, hunters are more likely to shoot the first buck that walks by (most often a yearling according to your numbers), and then use the second tag on a trophy. Not something Minnesotans have a chance to do. That makes numbers from Michigan completely different from what they'd be in Minnesota, and means you can't correlate hunter tendencies in Michigan to what they'd be in Minnesota.

Want to try again?

[tfran123]

Sure, look at the years impacted, many of these regs have changed etc. over time. Facts remain the same and I'm sorry you don't get that. Could post other links with states allowing one buck per hunter. Go ahead, it's called Google and it'll take you less than 5 minutes. No worries, you won't be back on this topic as you'll see the MI figures are pretty close to norm for most non-APR States.

[Getanet]

don't hear the other side saying meat maggots or brown its down crowd.

Did you type that with a straight face, or is this your first APR thread?

[flipper]

Here's a solution tfran. Just find a fenced in hunt to go to in one of these other states you like so much. You can get your big antlers with very little effort on your part and then we'll all be happy.

[Scott K]

I keep going back to, if it is so popular, and the majority support it, then why does there need to be a regulation? ANd if the majority supports it voluntarily, why is 60-70% of the bucks taken 1.5yo? Sounds to me like at least 60-70% arent in support of APR.

Again, your trophy of a big rack, isnt everyones trophy. My trophy is a full freezer, while your trophy is something to hang on the wall. You get excited by big antlers walking to you, and be able to brag that you are better then everyone else that hunts because you shot a deer with a big rack. Myself, I just want food in the freezer. You know, what hunting was about for the past couple thousands of years.

[flipper]

Scott, it is just that us non elitists are too ignorant to understand.

[tfran123]

Here's a solution tfran. Just find a fenced in hunt to go to in one of these other states you like so much. You can get your big antlers with very little effort on your part and then we'll all be happy.

Thanks for the sound advice, so in other words you are saying "shut up I don't like your views". Sorry Flipper, I'm sure "my effort" significantly outpaces yours, w/o even knowing you it's quite obvious.

[mntatonka]

Thanks for the sound advice, so in other words you are saying "shut up I don't like your views". Sorry Flipper, I'm sure "my effort" significantly outpaces yours, w/o even knowing you it's quite obvious.

So you're saying the amount of effort you put into getting a deer with big bones makes you a better hunter than someone who takes multiple deer to feed themselves and their families?

[flipper]

I'm just saying you don't need to impose your idea of a successful hunt on others. Its called freedom.

[TruthWalleyes]

Did you type that with a straight face, or is this your first APR thread?

+1

Besides...I'm pretty much the only one throwing horn porn out there

Shame on me.

[lakevet]

Will someone in the pro apr camp please post links to reliable documented source that shows the buck harvest in Minnesota by age class, Especially the all important % of harvest that is 1.5 years. Include data from past 10 years.

Thank you

lakevet

[Scott K]

"Crickets"

[mntatonka]

Will someone in the pro apr camp please post links to reliable documented source that shows the buck harvest in Minnesota by age class, Especially the all important % of harvest that is 1.5 years. Include data from past 10 years.

Thank you

lakevet

They can't, because that data doesn't exist.

[tfran123]

Correct, you've shot deer and when have they been aged? DNR doesn't do it and I never claimed they did. Doesn't make your point or mine for that matter.

[mntatonka]

Correct, you've shot deer and when have they been aged? DNR doesn't do it and I never claimed they did. Doesn't make your point or mine for that matter.

And yet you continue to use the claim that the majority of our harvest has been yearling bucks and that APR prevents that.

[Scott K]

Do the math again and before doing so define "mature". Yep it's not a 2.5 YO.

So your definition of "mature" is when it has a big rack?

How do you know those 6 pointers arent 4 years old? Or that 10 pointer isnt 2 years old? You dont, because no one ages them. So all you are saying is, dont shoot the small antler deer, let them antlers get big, so I can shoot bigger antlers.

The largest deer I have ever shot, was about 5-6 years old, and it weighed 280 pounds, dressed, according to a buddies hanging scale. I have no idea how accurate it was, but the deer was huge. He was a 7 pointer. Not even legal to take in SE MN right now, sad!

I have shot many 8-10 pointer basket racks, that would be lucky to be 2.5 years old, but they are legal to take. Doesnt really relate well to the APR agenda, but as long as they have 4 points per side, all is good.

I dont doubt "your" estimate of 60-70% of bucks taken are 1.5 years old, but I dont see the need for them to be 3-4 years old to harvest one. That is where you lose me. The only reasoning, is so you can shoot bigger antlers, and antlers arent everyones prize.

I know a few down sides to the APR in SE MN that isnt brought up very often, and that is huntable land. Years ago I hunted in the Lacrosse, Lacressent areas, and barely anyone would tell you no that you couldnt hunt. In fact they encouraged it because of all the deer. Now you go there, and unless you are related to someone, own the land yourself, or have a grand in your pocket to lease some private land, you will be hunting in over crowded public land. Seems greed goes beyond big racks, and jumps right to money to lease land. Dont get me wrong, its their land, they can do as they please, but it has created a welcome hunt for anyone that can shoot a deer, to a costly hunt to lease land in order to get on to any private land. I am sure the land owners there arent complaining about the APR lease money coming in. I am sure once the APR effects on the racks start affecting the average deer antler size, the cost to hunt in the SE will only go up.

[mntatonka]

The largest deer I have ever shot, was about 5-6 years old, and it weighed 280 pounds, dressed, according to a buddies hanging scale. I have no idea how accurate it was, but the deer was huge. He was a 7 pointer. Not even legal to take in SE MN right now, sad!

I just want to point out that the 7 pointer is legal to take, only needs 4 on one side.

[tfran123]

Didn't say that did I? Can't type slower so do want me to try again?

Don't keep putting words in my mouth. Haven't even brought up rack size and quite honestly have NEVER said APR is the answer, so be careful and read my posts again. Wow.

[Scott K]

Ah, OK. Barely legal to take in SE MN