APR 2013?

[TruthWalleyes]

So TruthWalleys....you are saying the only place that you are able to shoot large, mature bucks with big racks is if you pay for a high fence hunt? Seriously? That's just complete and utter nonsense.

Of course it is nonsense, because that is not what i meant.

Horn Porn (What you refer to as mature bucks with big racks, or commonly referred to as "Superior") is shot every year in MN. What you guys are asking for is an increased opportunity to achieve Horn Porn. So you can hang that Horn Porn on the wall.

The rest of us are quite happy hunting deer...Just Deer.

So, if you want to increase your odds and satisfy your horn porn needs, go do a fenced in hunt... Otherwise, realize how good we've got it. Deer hunting is great! I don't need big horns to make it better. I do my best each year to make my own hunts better.

[MUSKY18]

[quote=B. Amish

that makin a no sense.

genes don't change with age.

[B. Amish]

The article states that most bucks begin breeding as yearlings. So if you are blasting all the young deer, you are blasting your breeding stock. Yeah you want to see the big boys pass on their genetics, but while Mr Big Boy is locked down with one doe, and there are 15 other does that are in esterus, the yearlings and younger bucks are sneaking in the back door to breed those does. Shooting younger bucks doesn't do good for anyone. Let em grow.

[NoWiser]

I personally could care less about antler point restrictions. I, like Bear55, just want a few deer around to chase, and I'll do my best to find a big one.

But, I can't help but think all of those digging in their heels screaming about APRs have never had a chance to hunt in an area where QDM was practiced. I think if they did, they may not think it is such a terrible idea. For example I hunted all through middle and high school without seeing so much as a buck. I shot a few does, but that was about it. My freshman year of college found me in western Wisconsin with permission to hunt 120 acres surrounded for a few miles on each side with QDM signs. I never heard of it before then. My first evening in the stand I saw a little raghorn 8 pointer and almost crapped my pants. I never got a shot off at it, but I was so excited I had to call my dad to tell him all about it. I continued to hunt as often as I possibly could. I saw bucks fighting, single bucks chasing multiple does, multiple (up to 4) bucks chasing single does. I rattled in bucks on 3 seperate occasions. I was having so much fun I didn't even think about shooting the small bucks. Heck, I didn't want my season to end! Archery season culminated with me stalking a 180"+ buck absolutely demolishing a sapling. At 40 yards a basket 8 point that was bedded down out of sight busted me and took the big guy with him. I never took a deer that season, but when I looked back at my records I realized that not even a single time did I hunt and NOT see a buck of some kind that entire season. What a blast! After that the landowner's nephew started hunting and I lost permission. I couldn't get on anybody elses land in the area so had to hunt some public land about 1/2 hour away. While still fun, it was nothing compared to that land in the QDM area.

For me, QDM isn't necessarily just about bigger antlers, it's about having a better hunt as a whole, with more buck activity. But, like I said, I doubt anyone would believe me or understand if they haven't experienced it for themselves.

That said, I don't believe it's necessarily the government's job to to make laws to produce more big deer. I think the hunting community as a whole can slowly move this way, and I think it is. (I just hope people are doing it for the right reasons, and not just so they can shoot a big buck and scream "Big Buck Down Baby" while fist pumping, call all of their friends and so they can yell in their phones about how they "SMOKED HIM", and update their profile picture before they even have it field dressed.)

As for me, the enjoyment I get out of hunting in Minnesota now comes from finding areas where big public land bucks exist, and other hunters do not. This means hunting big woods areas where I'm lucky to see 2 or 3 deer in 10 hard days of hunting. But, I love it. APRs would not affect the areas I hunt, so I really could care less about it either way. I guess in conclusion I really am not pro or anti APR. And, I'm not really sure this long post of mine even has a point. I guess I'll hit submit anyways..... Good luck to everyone this fall! I hope you all find the buck (or doe) you are looking for.

[Bear55]

Good post NoWiser, hits home with me. Especially the bigwoods and finding locations you don't see other hunters.

[MOSSY]

You say 60 percent of zone three hunters are in favor of APR but only 4000 people were asked why doesn't the DNR ask everyone that purchases a license if they would be in favor of it. they do it with hip certification. then they would have an accurate percentage instead of just a chosen few to make it look good

[B. Amish]

But, I can't help but think all of those digging in their heels screaming about APRs have never had a chance to hunt in an area where QDM was practiced.

wrong.

[tfran123]

Agreed, nowiser has made some solid statements . . .

I'm pro-APR but anti government involvement (voluntary is ideal) but doesn't work - no different than fishing. And there to a few ruin it for all, pretty simple really so APR in it's current state is better than many alternatives.

If you're a meat hunter, more power to ya, got no issues w/that. I do love however the guys that say they just throw the racks away, that's going a bit far for most people. Did you enjoy the memory of shooting the buck? I would think so. When I catch an 8 lb walleye is all I see is two big fillets or is there more to it?

The TV shows have added a negative side to APR however and some of the heritage, family involvement, etc. are lost on these clowns.

[tfran123]

And you'd be the minority . . .but entitled to your opinion.

[TruthWalleyes]

You say 60 percent of zone three hunters are in favor of APR but only 4000 people were asked why doesn't the DNR ask everyone that purchases a license if they would be in favor of it. they do it with hip certification. then they would have an accurate percentage instead of just a chosen few to make it look good

Because the DNR somehow made these 4,000 surveys cost $30,000.00

Too much funding going to AIS wash stations and weed dumpsters to survey more apparently.

[MOSSY]

and I can't help but think those in favor of it have never sat all season and only saw one deer all season.

[TruthWalleyes]

I personally could care less about antler point restrictions. I, like Bear55, just want a few deer around to chase, and I'll do my best to find a big one.

But, I can't help but think all of those digging in their heels screaming about APRs have never had a chance to hunt in an area where QDM was practiced. I think if they did, they may not think it is such a terrible idea.

Seems you've changed your views a bit since last year, but looks to be because you are taking it upon yourself to go find your deer. Sounds very rewarding indeed.

I have hunted QDM - APR areas last several years as well as SC & SW MN Lottery zones, even Northern MN Intensive Harvest zones. In these SW MN areas where it is claimed to have low deer populations, one of them i hunt, i cannot believe the amount of deer i see...However i am getting sweaty and going deep into the many public lands and finding them.

I do love your statement about the facebook update...

[MOSSY]

it doesn't cost the DNR anything to have the license agency ask one simple question WOULD YOU BE IN FAVOR OF APR'S WHERE YOU HUNT?

[TruthWalleyes]

I would be in support of the DNR requiring all bucks that are registered to first have their antlers measured and points counted for data collection.

Put some facts on the table.

[TruthWalleyes]

it doesn't cost the DNR anything to have the license agency ask one simple question WOULD YOU BE IN FAVOR OF APR'S WHERE YOU HUNT?

They sent me the survey 3x...Honestly, I never filled it out. Pis*ed me off too much.

[MOSSY]

My point exactly the way it was done was not very accurate

[Spike76]

APR's and experimental slots are wrong. It is not the D.N.R.'s job to limit size of deer and fish, so others can have bigger ones. Work hard or go without.

[PEATMOSS]

APR's and experimental slots are wrong. It is not the D.N.R.'s job to limit size of deer and fish, so others can have bigger ones. Work hard or go without.

Big difference here. Fish slots are usually put in place to protect breeding sized females. We all benefit by having an increase in both the numbers of eaters as well as more large fish to catch. We also are all equally inconvenienced by having to return medium sized fish to the water.

APR's on the other hand benefit those for whom antlers have become their primary source of hunting satisfaction. They also disproportionately benefit those with their own land and those that have the luxury of hunting more days.

[NoWiser]

Seems you've changed your views a bit since last year, but looks to be because you are taking it upon yourself to go find your deer. Sounds very rewarding indeed.

It's actually been a few years since I've been harcore Pro-APR. The last few years I've been fairly indifferent. I've just realized that whining and blaming everyone else for my lack of success at hunting mature bucks was not doing anyone any good. You are right on about deer hunting being even more rewarding now. For me, the reward I get from deer hunting is equal to the work I put into it. Last year I didn't even get a glimpse of a big buck (I saw 3 deer in 7 days of hunting), but I sure had fun chasing them and knowing they were around! And, when I shoot a big one this November, it will be that much sweeter!

On a side note regarding the posts about the old deer not being as good of table fair. The last 4 deer I shot included 3 very mature bucks from northern MN and about a 2 year old doe from farm country. The best tasting was a 240 lb (dressed) buck I shot in the middle of a swamp. The worst, by far, was the doe I shot on the edge of a clover field surrounded by corn. Just an interesting note I thought I'd add....

[surewood]

It's always nice when people get labeled "horn porn" guys or the guys that don't want to hunt hard to get a mature buck. Nice way to get your point across. Holds no water. All the Apr guys I know are some of the hardest working deer hunters I've met.. Hey, here's a fact. They're called antlers, but horn porn rhymes so insult us with that. Maybe I'll call some of you the "brown it's down guys". Wait, that doesn't hold water, but it rhymes and is used for dramatic effect to get my point across. Or maybe I should speak my opinion which I'm entitled to without insults cause it's okay for other people to have different views on issues.

[TruthWalleyes]

So the heavy Apr crowd that works hard have not been rewarded with big antlers... Must be time for legislation then

[flipper]

The problems come in when one group of hunters tries to force the other group to do things their way through regulations. I don't see anyone telling you that you have to shoot bucks you don't want to. My point is that hunters should have the same choices they have always had. If I wanted to see a change it would be an end to party hunting but that is another topic completely.

[surewood]

So you're assuming that people that are pro Apr haven't killed mature deer? Wrong again. Once again and this is from personal experience, the pro Apr guys I know that work hard have been rewarded with mature deer. Even with that we have a different views then others. Been here done that so I'll end my last post about Apr the way I've done before. I'm not gonna worry about it unless there is a vote for it in my area.

[james_walleye]

Waste Of Time Surewood. Your Dealing With Someone That Doesn't Even Understand The Basic Math When It Comes To Polls And Sample Sizes.

[surewood]

One last thing. Forgot my emoticon to stress my criticism of other peoples views.

[james_walleye]

Truth Do You Have Any Facts Straight? Feel Free To Investigate Who Went To The Legislature On This Issue Originally And Then Maybe You Will Understand Why It Had To Go Back To The Legislature To Be Straightened Out....

[TruthWalleyes]

So you're assuming that people that are pro Apr haven't killed mature deer? Wrong again. Once again and this is from personal experience, the pro Apr guys I know that work hard have been rewarded with mature deer. Even with that we have a different views then others. Been here done that so I'll end my last post about Apr the way I've done before. I'm not gonna worry about it unless there is a vote for it in my area.

I've heard this statement many times. Why the push for APR then? So I can shoot superior deer? Is it because you want bigger horns than your already very successful hunts?

James, enlighten us on the origins of APR. In sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know, and if you include a mailing address you guys could send them pictures of your deer as a thank you.

[surewood]

It's a waste of time arguing with you about it. You won't change my mind, I won't change yours. It's not like you've brought in a new interesting fact about this then the last 20,000 posts. I only chimed in cause of the b s labeling.

[PEATMOSS]

It's most certainly ok for all of us to have different points of view surewood. What one side is doing is forcing their way on everyone else by force of law and that is what draws out the emotional responses, name calling and sarcasm.

If hanging antlers on your wall is what floats your boat, cool. Just don't force the rest of us into your silly little game and we'll all get along fine.

[surewood]

Many regulations/ laws force their way on all of us. Nothing new. I'm not asking anyone to "play my silly game". I'm not worried about it unless there is a vote that would effect my hunting. Then it wouldn't be forced on all of us, just whoever ends up being the minority. All I did was defend Apr guys from the name calling/labeling.