APR 2013?

[Bear55]

As far as the wolf zone I've hunted zone 1 for over 30years. Wolves target the weakest and easiest deer to kill, thats the young and the old, alot more yearling bucks are being eaten by wolves than a prime healthy 5.5 year old buck that can defend himself better than a yearling.

The wolves target food, I'm sure the old and sick are easier to catch but it's not like there tons of old and sick deer running around feeding the wolf population. We have found plenty of very nice/mature bucks taken down by wolves over the years. It happens more than most people realize.

[lakevet]

Family has hunted zone one since 1890's. Wolves take what they can get. At times it is that mature buck worn out from the rut that is easy to find because he stinks so bad. Bruce Ranta, retired ontario biologist in an article in Deer and Deer hunting said he believes some wolf packs specifically target mature bucks at that time. Have found some mature bucks that got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't forget those wounded bucks either.

Hard to "stockpile" deer in zone 1 like you can in mild winter/agricultural/no wolves areas.

Winter is always the biggy up here.

lakevet

[tfran123]

I too hunt the north country and wolves don't discriminate, they take what they can when they can, period. Bucks can be easily taken by wolves at times, but winter is the great equalizer. But you absolutely can stockpile bucks, if the hunters cull half the young bucks then your odds as a hunter of taking a mature buck in the future are greatly diminished. Sure predators and winters take their toll but that doesn't mean we can't better manage the resource, and perhaps you aren't saying that. Either way thought I'd throw that out there.

Thanks for the input.

[Scott K]

I dont think everyone shares the same enthusiasm as you about shooting a "mature buck" to me it seems most could care less, and even a few prefer not to shoot an old 5 year old deer. Myself included. If I see a huge rack coming at me, would I shoot it? Sure, I would take pictures of it, then probably throw the rack out in the rest of the pile. I have no need to have a deer mount, to me the trophy is the full freezer at the end of the season.

[tfran123]

Sorry bud, most would love to shoot a big buck, that's reality. May not be important to you and I'm happy you are fine throwing the rack away. Pretty funny actually and a pretty telling statement. Carry on.

[PurpleFloyd]

There is a difference between someone wanting to shoot a big buck if one happens to walk by and wanting the government to mandate that we only shoot them or settle for an empty freezer.

[tfran123]

There is a difference between someone wanting to shoot a big buck if one happens to walk by and wanting the government to mandate that we only shoot them or settle for an empty freezer.

Sure, but that's not what Scott said.

[PurpleFloyd]

Well. your post was certainly loaded as well. But I suppose that is acceptable.

[TruthWalleyes]

Sorry bud, most would love to shoot a big buck, that's reality. May not be important to you and I'm happy you are fine throwing the rack away. Pretty funny actually and a pretty telling statement. Carry on.

If most would "Love" this, then why do "They" as you claim "Shoot all the yearling bucks" if they are really Yearning for a big buck.

You APR guys sure are persistant.

[Wanderer]

If most would "Love" this, then why do "They" as you claim "Shoot all the yearling bucks" if they are really Yearning for a big buck.

Because its there.

[SmellEsox]

Loving to shoot one and yearning to shoot one are two different things. They probably don't pass because they know that their chances of shooting a big one are next to nill. If it were 10-15%, they might pass. Some shoot little bucks so they can keep their man card for another year. "Yup, I got my buck again!". Others shoot them because they are worried the next guy will shoot it. Still others shoot them because they are trying to fill out their party's tags. And then there is the remote tiny few that actually would rather shoot a small buck than a big one. Most guys don't know how good it could be and they are afraid of change. Other states have shown that support for APR increases after they are applied.

[flipper]

It seems to me that the ones that are worried about their "man card" are the ones who think they have to shoot something with large horns. Others are more secure in their manhood and enjoy hunting for what it is.

[B. Amish]

It seems to me that the ones that are worried about their "man card" are the ones who think they have to shoot something with large horns. Others are more secure in their manhood and enjoy hunting for what it is.

+1

[Scott K]

+2

FYI, I have shot several big deer in my life, some with a decent rack that would have scored 160, after I shot them, their heads laid ontop of a fuel barrel for many years. Then one day I decided I would never do anything with them anyhow. So I threw them out. Since then, a picture, then the entire carcass, with the rack gets disposed of right away after cleaning them.

When you go buy a steak from the store, do you want to see how big the cows horns were before you buy the steak? How about the hamburger? If it only had 3 inch horns, would you not want to take it home and eat it?

Another question, if you had the choice at a meat market, if they marked their beef, and sorted it accordingly, 2 yr old steer, 5 yr old steer, which section do you suppose would be picked from first? I am betting 9 out of 10 would choose to take the 2 year old steer meat first. Why do you suppose that is?

[PurpleFloyd]

Why do you suppose that is?

Lack of education on cow herd health and proper cow management techniques.

[mntatonka]

+2

FYI, I have shot several big deer in my life, some with a decent rack that would have scored 160, after I shot them, their heads laid ontop of a fuel barrel for many years. Then one day I decided I would never do anything with them anyhow. So I threw them out. Since then, a picture, then the entire carcass, with the rack gets disposed of right away after cleaning them.

When you go buy a steak from the store, do you want to see how big the cows horns were before you buy the steak? How about the hamburger? If it only had 3 inch horns, would you not want to take it home and eat it?

Another question, if you had the choice at a meat market, if they marked their beef, and sorted it accordingly, 2 yr old steer, 5 yr old steer, which section do you suppose would be picked from first? I am betting 9 out of 10 would choose to take the 2 year old steer meat first. Why do you suppose that is?

The answer will be "because deer aren't a farm animal, they are a trophy animal".

[PurpleFloyd]

The answer will be "because deer aren't a farm animal, ".

They essentially are in a large number of those deer hunting shows that feature high fence hunting at it's finest and try to convince the average rube that if they just pass on a small buk that every hunt will be just like that.

[Scott K]

Lack of education on cow herd health and proper cow management techniques.

People must not be out there voicing the importance of QCM(Quality cow management), and the cow herds arent strong, because they are net being breed by high quality big horned 5 year old cows.

Deer were meant as food, not as a trophy!

[muskiemanAD]

Scott we get it you don't like trophy hunting. I see you have king of cats a few years in a row. You must have different opinion on trophy fish? You let the little cats go to catch the trophy fish. I could care less about a big cat I want to eat them and prefer the small ones. Just a observation I could be completely wrong but a lot of people against apr are muskie or cat guys that want to catch the big ones. Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

[Jameson]

Another question, if you had the choice at a meat market, if they marked their beef, and sorted it accordingly, 2 yr old steer, 5 yr old steer, which section do you suppose would be picked from first? I am betting 9 out of 10 would choose to take the 2 year old steer meat first. Why do you suppose that is?

What does the 2 year old steer weigh? What does the 5 year old steer weigh? If the 5 year old is a bigger animal then the people that need more beef would choose the bigger animal every time. Only the privileged could afford the good trophy meat.

[flipper]

Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

Exactly, Have you seen anyone propose changes in the law that would prevent the trophy hunters from shooting a large racked deer?

[PurpleFloyd]

Scott we get it you don't like trophy hunting. I see you have king of cats a few years in a row. You must have different opinion on trophy fish? You let the little cats go to catch the trophy fish. I could care less about a big cat I want to eat them and prefer the small ones. Just a observation I could be completely wrong but a lot of people against apr are muskie or cat guys that want to catch the big ones. Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

I was thinking that he let the big ones go and kept the smaller ones to eat. Isn't that they way it goes with slot limits?

[Mo Gator]

This conversation seems to now be going off the logic that APR results in hunters being able to only shoot big bucks (this 5 year old talk going on now). A big buck to be a mature 4 or 5 year old, right?

APR requires a buck to have 4 points on one side, that's it. The vast majority of 2.5 year old bucks in MN have this. Put APR in for ONE YEAR, the yearlings live through that year, and the next year there are the same amount of "shooter" bucks in the population. Am I missing something here?

This argument of hunters having to go without venison more often than not because of APR just doesn't make sense. Give APR a chance, within a couple years that forkhorn you usually shoot is now a decent 2.5 yr old 8 point with 20 more pounds of venison on him. That venison is just as good to eat as that last forkhorn you ate... Everyones a winner!!!!

[TruthWalleyes]

Darn right I chase big fish. Trying to beat a 46" flathead and a 61" sturgeon this year. I also get to release those fish when i catch them so i may allow others to enjoy them in the future. Can't catch (Shoot) and release a deer. I realize the fish i am chasing are many people's one and a lifetime fish. However, fishing can be a catch and release sport. Hunting is not. I believe the same opportunity is alive in deer hunting to shoot a buck of a lifetime. The opportunity becomes more abundant the more you travel and spend time chasing that deer. Just like fishing, i can't expect to go to every watering hole and catch a trophy. Every now and then each of those waters will hold a real trophy fish, just like the areas that don't have large amounts of mature deer will produce mature deer in low quantities. When your goal is to shoot a 160" deer on your 80 acres that hasn't seen a 160" deer in 20 years (Course nobody really knows) your best bet is to try hunting somewhere else or keep at it and one day you might be blessed...But we all know that casting in the golf course pond for 20 years is not likely to yield you a 30" walleye.

I don't find these smaller lakes that don't hold lots of trophy fish to be failures. They are just different. Do i get a better feeling in my stomache when i'm fishing a watering hole that is known to hold big fish...Heck yeah - i know the opportunity is there, it's just a matter of effort and luck.

You'll find pictures all over of people grinning ear to ear with small 6pt bucks, does, fawns, whatever...just as you will with people and their fish pictures. Doesn't need to be a near record fish to make the majority happy, though i understand the desire those that have made a goal to catch the near record fish/deer as i share that feeling with catfish/sturgeon as well as other species.

Fishing is pretty good the way it is; so is hunting. Sometimes though, i drive 2+ hours to go to a known trophy fishing destination which is generally created with the right habitat. Habitat that i can't find on my home 80 so to speak.

[Scott K]

Scott we get it you don't like trophy hunting. I see you have king of cats a few years in a row. You must have different opinion on trophy fish? You let the little cats go to catch the trophy fish. I could care less about a big cat I want to eat them and prefer the small ones. Just a observation I could be completely wrong but a lot of people against apr are muskie or cat guys that want to catch the big ones. Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

I dont eat catfish, if I want table fair, that is what walleye, and panfish are for. I am 100% catch and release on catfish. To each their own, if you want to go catfishing I would prefer you ate the small fish, and released the big fish, but that is up to you. I am not bucking for a law that says you can only eat what I want you to eat.

[muskiemanAD]

I haven't fished for them in a few years. But is there a procted slot on cats? If so are they doing it to produce bigger fish?

[Scott K]

1 over 24inch. They protect the bigger ones, not the little ones.

[SmellEsox]

Scott, I'm sure you are a very rare type of hunter in MN. Taxidermists aren't kept in business by APR guys alone. Most guys display their antlers in some way shape or form whether they are an APR guy or a meat hunter.

You are right, I assume there are plenty of guys in the APR crowd that would use their mature buck harvest to boost their ego, but you cannot deny the same mentality of the many guys who take pride in getting their buck every year. Doesn't matter the size as long as its a buck.

[Scott K]

Racks are fun to look at, but beyond that, they really dont do much more then a small rack, or none at all.

I used to be a rack hunter, and size was something to brag about, now, I am just as happy shooting a 140 doe, as I would be a 8 point buck. In fact, I would rather have the doe. Maybe I am the strange breed, or the outcast, but I am not alone, and I dont like my right to hunt stepped on so some can hang some antlers on their wall, and think it makes them a better person then others.

[SmellEsox]

So, in other words, you are just like us APR guys. We both don't like regulations that limit our opportunities to hunt what we like. Right?