Harvest Quota Cut in Half

[Getanet]

Ever eaten a smallmouth? I can't speak for largemouth, but smallmouth are delicious.

This probably makes me the spawn of the devil, but I ate a smallmouth once. I was on Vermillion, caught a smaller sized one and was curious. It was awesome!

[gregg52]

So lets say they open up the smallmouth restrictions. Are there going to be enough kept to make a difference? I know I won't keep them, and everyone I know wouldn't keep a bass either.

I know I'm going to get smoked for this, but here goes. I'm a walleye guy and I don't generally fish for bass. Most people here are walleye guys too, but.....

Since everyone seems to be concerned with the land values and resorts making money, what is so wrong with turning Mille Lacs into a musky/smallmouth lake? Minnesota has lots of lakes with great walleye populations but very few trophy smallmouth lakes. Wouldn't turning it into a smallmouth lake accomplish many things, such as keeping the economy going and possibly opening it up to a different crowd that what is there today. I know that some of the people that are in this thread would on some level like to see the walleyes gone.

Thats a nice thought but man I think that would be a major undertaking

I'm not a bass guy and I ate them and unlike the post above I thought they were awful,buts thats just me I would wonder how the resorts would react to that I kind of doubt you would draw the people you do know

Its just a shame to see such a wonder of mother nature ruined by man

and for what some silly treaty over a 150 yrs old Its to bad a group couldnt get together and try to get in back in court and overturned

Sandra Day Oconner is gone she was the deciding vote I dont know

who replaced her or his or her views

I say just let it it go and let the the netters take of it

see what happens quit wastig tax payer money on it

and all these costly studies they are doing and obiviously are not working to good looking at the pictures of the fish coming out of there i'd say its going to be a very poor -poor hatch As posted above there are many other lakes with good walleye fihing If one can afford to drive to mille lacs i think they can make it another hour so to another lake

and if they get alittle to much pressure take the money spent on mille lacs and do some restocking in non netable waters Which I dont think would happen because most walleye lakes the walleyes dont commit suicide like they are doing over there now !!in a very out of balanced lake !!

[Deet]

Mille Lacs Lake Fishing Reports - Ice Conditions

Check out the [pictyure of the 28 inch walleye on the sabove thread

and tell me how masny eggs that fish has

or just look at all the pics on the mille lascs thread

those are some sick look fish

you think they can reproduce....their bellies sure dont look like it

Darn nets! Not only are they decimating the male population, but they're forcing the females to try to lose enough weight to slip through the nets! (That's the only way I could think of blaming the nets for your skinny fish. There couldn't possibly be any other factors.)

Here's my 7-year plan to save the lake and make everyone happy:

2013: Use current harvest weight targets, restrict non-native limits to two sub-20 inch fish. Warn all the resorts that they’re about to have 3 boom years, starting in 2014, followed by 3 bust years, so save as much money as you can for the next three years.

2014: Work with the Reservation to set a harvest weight target; make it whatever they want. Unrestricted harvest for non-natives, other than the state-wide 6-fish, 1 over 20” regulations. This will be the start of the 3-year boom for the local economy.

2015 through 2016: Same as 2014. These are the boom years.

2017 through 2019: Natives can net as many tons of fish as they want. Anglers can still keep 6 with 1 over 20”, but both netting and angling will suck. These are the 3 bust years for local economy.

2020 and on: Mille Lacs has a major boom in smallies, perch, or crappies, and everyone forgets that it used to be a good walleye lake. No one cares. Resorts are making money again. Southern slickers can fish Tonka if they want walleyes, northern hicks can go to Red and LOTW.

[srfishin15]

I disagree with that idea entirely. This is one of the best walleye lakes in Minnesota why would you create a plan to just let that completely disappear?

[Deet]

I disagree with that idea entirely. This is one of the best walleye lakes in Minnesota why would you create a plan to just let that completely disappear?

First of all, it's a joke.

BUT...

It would generate as much or more money than what we are spending and will have to spend to save it.

So let it go, and make money off of it, rather than dumping money to try saving it.

Plenty of other good walleye lakes.

Still, I'm joking. Mostly. I think.

[Musky Buck]

Is this a part of why when Red lake got rockin again they eased into what you could keep I think it was 2 fish 17" or smaller ? Now is it 4 ? So if 3 boats were fishing solo occupant combined the 3 boats would take 6 fish out of the system, not 15 ? But, is that theory too late for Mille Lacs ? A walleye is a predator fish, I think most don't view them as such so protecting so many larger walleyes really put a dent in the perch population I would guess and the status of the tullibee is unknown to me so the pike,musky,walleyes and bass I suppose are all competing for available forage which maybe is hurting as the water becomes clearer it should make for tougher fishing conditions somewhat but are these fish just that hungry in a sense that they're not having stretches of being finicky ? Larger fish need more calories I'd guess, are they eating themselves out of house and home even though the lake is as huge as it is ? Just some random unproven thoughts guys.

[IL Res]

Agreed. I've been fishing Mille Lacs for 30+ years. I was my dad's favorite lake and have many fond memories over the years.

If anyone has witnessed the massive eco-damage that the gill nets cause to targeted species as well as the non-targeted ones, you realize that M/L is on borrowed time as far as a quality, sustainable fishery goes. It reminds me of when the white settlers clear-cut the entire northwoods in the mid/ late 1800's for the white pines. Nothing was left...

Unless the federal and state policies that allow gill netting are closely examined/ eliminated, then were just going to have to take it boys and girls. The politicians are in control.

[gregg52]

didnt LOW go threw a dought from netting years back

i know it was commercal netting but still its how much bigger than ML

AS said before its black and before and after

[deadeye]

What about the muskies eating all the forage? Maybe we should start looking at that. I heard they are pretty tasty smoked..

Also, I have eaten smallies before. They were really good. I would rather release them myself but I could see where that maybe harvesting them would do the lake some good.

We could also get a market going for zebra mussels. I think with the right marketing and a spot on the Discovery channel everyone in the lower 48 would go nuts for zebra mussel soup. Zebra mussel mining could be the next Bering Sea gold.

I see what you guys are getting at with maybe making the lake something different. Just don't think it will happen. Joking aside its a walleye lake. Things will change, but it will continue to be a walleye lake.

Personally, I would be just fine with it being catch and release only for a few years. Sure, you will get some hook mortality but it would get more than enough chance to catch up with itself and see where the whole zebra mussel think takes us. I would go and fish just as much as I do now. I know everyone wants to take some fish home but really you don't actually need that for sustenance so grow up, put the man pants on and grill a steak instead.

The problem with the whole situation is that the DNR has to try and make everyone happy. Bottom line is that you can't make everyone happy at once. We need to either step on some toes or all come to a agreement that we are all going to be a little miserable.

[Mo Gator]

Take one of the best naturally producing walleye lakes in the country and turn it into a bass lake.... yep, un huh, great idea.

Smallmouth bass are delicious. I would love it if they would open up the regs and let you keep some. That would put fish in the frying pan every week during the summer and save walleyes.

I agree with letting anglers keep one bigger walleye (like one over 20) but wouldn't that result in quickly hitting the quota? Everyone would be taking at least 3 lbs out the lake everyday, that surely didn't happen last year and we went way over 178k lbs which is what we are allowed this year.

[gregg52]

boy i'll tell you guys must love fish

eating small mouth and walleyes ove 20....not me

i'm glad i know alittle bit about fishin and can get me some 16 inch fish to put in the pan

[Red Miller]

Smallmouth restrictions should be lifted lock, stock, and barrel. Ash Lake in Orr, MN is a case and point. Overrun with smallies. Pike and Muskie as well. I would keep a limit of 20" walleyes out of Mille Lacs any day of the week. Sorry Gregg...you and I see eye to eye (excuse the pun) in many regards but 16" walleyes?? pretty slim pickins' and not the right approach. If you are going to kill 130,000 lbs of walleye, there are plenty of people who would be glad to put them in the freezer instead of watching the bloaters float by.

[gregg52]

just a heads up Red

I dont fish over there much any more

the fish on my table come out of winnie,north long ,gull,etc

not out of miille lacs in along time

I do agree with you as far those who want to keep those skinny 20 inch things....lol...better than wasting them floating

[Red Miller]

Gregg, I see you are in Nisswa (lucky dog!)....your just rubbing our noses in it, arent ya....

I think the limit should be 2 fish, any size.

[gregg52]

to be honest

its alost cause over there to mnny cooks in the kitchen

every bodys else's fault..history shows you what the problem is

mess with mother nature that bad and thats the result

i do live nisswa and love it many many lakes to fish

wont get to them all...lol..old you know...lol..but i try

[Superduty]

I'm a bass guy. Won't try to hide it. I also enjoy a little early season walleye fishing on the pond.

The lake has too many large predators for the available forage. This includes smallies, pike, muskies, and lots of big skinny walleyes. The tullibee die off from warm summers didn't help but we have been stockpiling big walleyes and smallies for years. Predator/prey relationships are pretty simple really. Predators increase and prey decreases. Pretty soon the predator population crashes because of lack of prey. The prey populations rebound because there are few predators. As the prey increases again, the predators follow suit. Repeat...

Our current management model has changed the predator prey relationship because we are saving the large predators and harvesting the small walleyes. It is about time for the predators to crash. The prey population can't support the number of predators.

People are quick to blame the natives netting for this imbalance when in reality it is the management model that was forced into place when netting was allowed by the courts. The size structure of the walleyes has been altered by the management practices and not by netting. Perhaps a solution can be as simple as harvesting more larger walleyes in the future. I don't like to watch one group of people killing fish(net or spear) in a way that I am not allowed to participate in. Not fair. Put emotion aside and ask if netting harvest is any different than angling harvest. No doubt netting is more efficient and less sporting. Fact is a dead walleye is a dead walleye whether it was netted or hooked. It doesn't matter if it was killed before or after it spawns regardless of angler beliefs. Mille lacs walleyes produce so many fry every year that excess is a given and normal. More fry are produced than the lake can sustain whether we harvest during the spawn or not.

How do we fix it or can we fix it? It's my opinion that the lack of forage will soon take care of the large walleyes so we might as well harvest some of them. Problem is, the DNR hands are tied because of the harvest quota(lbs). Smallies are a little more versatile in feeding habits and temperature tolerances and will probably outcompete the walleyes in a changing lake. Problem is, the number of walleyes is exponentially larger than the number of smallies right now even with smallies at all time highs. Definitely a hinderance to walleye feeding and location but only part of a bigger problem. A harvest season on smallies could also help increase forage in the lake. To what extent is hard to say?

Something else to consider is the warming of the lake in the last 20 years compared to the past. No doubt we have had milder winters and longer warmer open water seasons. This isn't unique to Mille Lacs but is region (nation) wide. Smallie populations have boomed all over the midwest and a warmer climate is a likely cause. Look at Lake Michigan, Superior, Eerie, St. Clair on a large scale. Green(Spicer), Horseshoe Chain, Koronis, Mississippi river, and many others on a smaller scale all have seen increases in numbers and size of smallies recently.

We can also use history as our teacher. Years ago, before slot limits and harvest quotas, Mille Lacs fishing was very cyclical. Walleye numbers and harvest increased and anglers flocked to the lake to get their share. Overfishing would knock things down for a few years and the masses of people would diminish. Next thing you know, a few years later, the walleyes rebound and the masses come back to harvest fish again. It's not quite that simple because we have to figure in recruitment(succesful reproduction and that depends more on wind and weather than netting and hook and line angling) but maybe it's time to let things roll without a lot of regulation for awhile and just see what happens. I suspect a cyclical balance would return.

Keep in mind, fisheries management is about more than the fish. It's people management with a little science mixed in. The tribes, anglers, resort, restaurants, bait shops, lakeshore residents are all stakeholders and it's hard to keep everybody happy. Like everything else, the almight dollar will win in the end.

[walleye29us]

Very nice post Superduty...

[northender]

So the netting is the basis (indirectly) of the trouble as you say Superduty? Without the netting, none of the bad rules would have had to be put in place then, right? So end the netting and that would allow the DNR to, eventully, go back to the ways they successfully managed the lake before , right?

That is what Superduty just said...right? I agree!

[jentz]

Superduty excellant post!! realistic and thought out! I agree 100%.

[Bandersnatch]

I agree with much of your post Superduty.

But let's face it. The "managment" style of the DNR for the past 10 to 15 years? If they had their way you would be eating nothing but Carp and Suckers.

[river rat316]

I am not going to read all the posts on this but here is what needs to be done, plain and simple the lake would recover.

for 2 years 2 fish limit, one over 20 and one under 20

2 years after that 17-21 slot 2 fish limit

I am a bass guy and this pains me to say it but the protection of the smallie needs to end at least for awhile, go back to the state allowed harvest whatever the limit is (I don't know because I keep none)

the natives need to let the DNR milk the fish they harvest and the dnr needs to return the fingerlings to the lake each fall.

I have no problems with the natives netting, as long as they stick to there agreement, but their is no reason the DNR can't grab their cahones and tell them those fish need to be milked before they get the knife, or their harvest gets cut into a 1/4 of what it is.

[Red Miller]

Good job Superduty. Well written and to the point. I agree and have said since 2011. Its time to start taking some of the bigger fish and leave the little guys alone. This "trophy fishing" concept has not helped the situation either. Like you said, the lake cannot support all of those large mouths to feed (and I didnt mean largemouths!) This lake has survived the cyclic ups and downs for many many years. The problem is not over harvest..its over regulation. If the natives want to net it...let em! If it is in their philosophy to take what they want..fine. Why should the sportsman have to be the ones that have to compensate for their deeds. One of the problems is that we are dealing with Wisconsin bands and they may not particularly care about the resources in Minnesota. Oh well, let the GLFWEFTLKJHLKH.... deal with it. Thats what we pay them for. Excuse me for being a bit harsh but our 22nd annual spring trip to the pond is looking pretty bleak and that doesnt put me in a very good mood.

[gregg52]

RED

Start a new tradition

Go to winnie!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[laportian]

We net winnie too. Other than Red Lake it is the most heavily netted water in MN.

[gregg52]

well its still in good shape

so laportian maybe you could quit netting it....lol

but as I said here

I can see winnie going the same way as mille lacs

if they dont change up the slot there to

i dont know how nets work do you also target smaller fish????

if so that makes just about the same sceino as mille lacs

i dont see as many nets up on winnie as i do when i drive by mille lacs

but that same slot is going on 13 yrs thats along time to target one size in my opinion

[laportian]

I rarely get get on em on Winnie! Ive had more bullhead and tullibee sets than scoring big on the walters in the past two years! But I dont really net too much myself. A few times in thespring and in the fall I go out maybe once or twice a month til ice up.

Leech Lake Tribal netting has been going on legally for forty years and things are okay up here. My point is harvesting is harvesting no matter what. Scream til your blue in the face about netting; it aint going to stop. Differance up here vs Mille Lacs is the angling pressure. Mille Lacs is a metro lake plain and simple now that gets the snot used out of it. You take 300,000 to 500,000 pounds of fish consistantly off the lake that has so much going on it is bound to take a bad turn. You throw zebs in and the dynamics of slots, add a booming smallie population, a gazillion weekend warrior metro types fishing the dog [PoorWordUsage] out of it and you wonder what is going on? Blame the indians it only makes sense right boys?

Thing with netting up here is we do it all season long. Mille Lacs gets it done in a couple weeks. On Winnie I can guarantee from opener right thru to ice up there are nets on the water every single day. So the cumalative effects are greater on Winnie. There might be thirty or so crews netting Mille Lacs for ten to twenty days each spring, but Winnie has four or five crews each and every night throughout an entire season. Leech is netted too just not by as many people. You dont here too much griping going on about it from dudes up here though cause it is what it is. Shared waters with shared resources, you take your way and we take our way.

[northender]

laportian,

With your words "Scream til your blue in the face about netting; it aint going to stop.", why would you and your group expect anyone to work with you on anything? How do you expect it to be acceptable to be helped by the tax-payers of this country and state and then have that attitude? When in fact you do not need the netting to survive?

[walleye29us]

x2

[Hawg]

x3

[laportian]

Northender- In regards to what? I don't think there is any sort of push from the govt. to end our treaty rights. Do you really think there is a national push to squash rights given to Natives? Is this one of those we have to bow down to our opressor type things? I don't think so, my band went to court in 71, we won and that is that. In this day in age nothing will be taken from us. You are correct; we do not need netting to survive. We net because we can. I know you'll keep ranting about how we flaunt it in your face and how you, Northender, can't believe it and how your taxes educate, feed, and house me and my people. Guess what my taxes help educate, feed, and house all different shades of people too. But keep on til your blue in the face. You are not my peoples handler and you do not make the rules.