How long before Gardy is gone?

[blue_healer_guy]

Perfect example tonite on why hes gotta go. Starting pitcher is in to the 7th on 70 or so pitches. Brings in the pen after yesterdays fubarb short start from albers. So sick of him and his staff and his owner. Go Bison!

[lungdeflator]

Mauer is just like Suzuki. Will always just be concerned with his batting average. Doesn't really matter if he is batting .330, when all he hits are singles with nobody on base. He could end up having the best career average as a MN Twin, but its a team sport and when your team loses 90+ games a yr, one guys batting average doesn't do jack for anybody but that player.

what this has to do with Gardy I don't know.

[mrklean]

Ichiro could steal bases Mauers hip would break if he tried to steal a base

[JBMasterAngler]

The object of the game is to get on base, so you can score. So if you have a high batting average, that helps the team.

[greebs]

Getting back to the topic at hand, everything you read in star tribune sure makes it sound like once again there will be little if any accountability and he will be back next year if he wants the job. I'm hoping its propaganda.....

It wouldn't surprise me though if they don't offer him an extension but do the Minnesota nice thing and announce that he resigned. I would be good with that. (And no that doesn't make them instantly better but at least gives me hope for the future with these prospects that are the teams future hopes.)

[Cicada]

Greebs,

Earlier you said that the Twins should improve because they had been young for the last 2.5 years and coaching should be responsible for improving and eliminating the rookie mistakes with these young guys. (paraphrasing, not a direct quote.)

My question would be, how do you think that talent was ready for the major leagues when they qualified for the AAA playoffs for the first time this year since 2006. They weren't winning at that level and we expect them to come to Minnesota and suddenly become average or better major leaguers?

How many years was Jacque Jones in the league and he left the Twins thinking he could hit a low and way breaking ball. Our coaching couldn't fix that rookie mistake. Seems to me he came back to the team after being coached by other major league managers and still thought he could hit those things. Sometimes, I feel you have less control over the players bad habits that you might think.

On a semi-side note, I might be out of the cities Twins loop, but why no love for Rick Anderson? I keep hearing that all these pitchers leave the Twins and become All-Stars. Seems to me some of them were All-Stars under Anderson, Santana (2005-2007 with Twins and only once, 2009 with the Mets.) and Nathan (2004, 2005, 2008, 2009 with the Twins) for example. When the players are healthy they perform like All-Stars. When they miss a few beats, the Twins look to find more consistency. Happens with a lot of teams. Do their pitching coaches take the blame for that too? Check this out: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1047146-the-50-best-mlb-pitching-coaches-of-all-time/page/9

And, for the Dick such haters: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1047146-the-50-best-mlb-pitching-coaches-of-all-time/page/36

I can't blame the Twins either way with Gardenhire, but I'd take the bet that he will be back if he wants to be.

[Big Dave2]

The object of the game is to get on base, so you can score. So if you have a high batting average, that helps the team.

But what is his high salary COSTING the team?

Let's compare shall we?

Joe Mauer: Batting average .324

Brian Dozier: Batting Average .245

Looks like Joe is worth a LOT more to the Twins, right? But wait.....batting average does not tell the whole story.

Mauer: 144 Hits.......11HR.......62 Runs Scored.......47RBI

Dozier: 119 Hits.......17HR.......66 Runs Scored.......60RBI

So Joe Mauer got 25 more hits so far than Dozier but what did those hits net him? 4 less runs scored and 13 less RBI.

And here's the kicker..........

Joe Mauer Salary: $23,000,000.00

Brian Dozier Salary: $497,000.00

[Stick in Mud]

Sure, that's one way to calculate value, but there are certainly others. I'm not defending Mauer, but any calculation of "value" ought to incorporate a whole bunch of other factors...to wit, how much revenue does he generate through ticket sales? TV contracts? Merchandise? etc. etc. etc. I don't have answers to these things, but he brings in more than a hit every three at bats.

Now, I'm not saying he's "worth" what he's paid, but to divide statistical data by salary and then claim that's an accurate measure of his "worth" is to oversimplify a wee bit.

It would be interesting to see the modeling the finance folks at these corporations use to value these "assets." I do wonder if they can write off any "depreciation."

[Cicada]

Stick in the Mud has a very good point. How many fans are buying tickets to see Mauer? How many to see Dozier? That probably justifies he difference in salaries. If Dozier can stay consistent and maintain those types of numbers, his salary will jump and it will be a wash in the end. At least, then, Mauer will have company in the "he's overpaid for what he's doing" category.

[Big Dave2]

Stick in the Mud has a very good point. How many fans are buying tickets to see Mauer? How many to see Dozier? That probably justifies he difference in salaries. If Dozier can stay consistent and maintain those types of numbers, his salary will jump and it will be a wash in the end. At least, then, Mauer will have company in the "he's overpaid for what he's doing" category.

[Stick in Mud]

Yeah, you're certainly right that there's a huge opportunity cost with a salary like his. One needn't think for too long about ways the Twinkies might more profitably spend that money.

[thatoneguy]

That's all well and good, Dave, but the guys who negotiate his contract ARE (obviously) stakeholders, and you better believe they factor ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc in their calculations when deciding what to pay someone. You don't have to like it, but it doesn't hurt to acknowledge the reality.

[rundrave]

I think we can all agree the twins are a small market team. Lets not forget the Pohlad family is very wealthy, and they could easily afford to spend Steinbrenner money to pay players.

I also think the MLBPA would have stepped in had Joe taken too much of a hometown discount and not allowed him to sign for less anyway.

Mauer and his contract are not the problem, and if people feel the high price of his contract is limiting the owners from signing other players your wrong.

[Big Dave2]

Mauer and his contract are not the problem, and if people feel the high price of his contract is limiting the owners from signing other players your wrong.

IALTO!!!!!

[rundrave]

IALTO!!!!!

Great rebuttal....

Honestly lets say the Twins trade Mauer, who do you expect to come sign and play here?

[Big Dave2]

Honestly lets say the Twins trade Mauer, who do you expect to come sign and play here?

If the Twins traded Mauer, I would expect whoever they traded him for to play here. But I certainly don't expect them to trade him.

[Cicada]

"No Way! Dozier's salary will never come close to Mauer."

Why not? If he puts up numbers like, or better than, Mauer and proves he can do it year after year, the Twins or someone else will throw money at him.

"How many jerseys will he sells when people finally start figuring out that he and his contract is the reason the team is losing? "

I totally disagree. Mauer is not the reason why the team has struggled. Look at a depleted farm system, especially when it comes to developing pitching. There hasn't been a top line starting pitcher come out of he system for a long time. In an interview about a month ago Terry Ryan said that they had interest in, and he had the authorization to go after, the bigger name free agent starting pitchers, but none of them would come to Minnesota just because they wanted to win a World Series now and narrowed their personal lists to three or four of the best teams. So it wasn't only the Twins that get locked out in the free agent market, it's 80%+ of the teams that will never have a chance a those guys.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Gardy was a good manager for the Dome. He needs to change his style for the outdoor stadium.

[greebs]

Gardy was a good manager for the Dome. He needs to change his style for the outdoor stadium.

IMO gardy needs a change of scenery. Put him on a team with many veteran types who know what to do and are on field leaders and he will again have some success.

I'm guessing I will be disappointed but would like to see someone from Tampa or oakland's staff run this team next year. They seem to know what they are doing on those teams with payroll similar to twins. Wishful thinking I'm sure. Odds are gardy will again be in the dugout next year and if not him it will be someone already in twins organization rather than completely new blood.

[Snag]

Minor league coaches and scouts must be terrible. How many pitchers have we drafted and developed. It would be nice to get an ace again.

[Big Dave2]

"No Way! Dozier's salary will never come close to Mauer."

Why not?

[Spike76]

I don't always agree with Gardy, but he is not the problem. When a manager is hired, he should be the one hiring the other coaches. Better scouts are also needed. Popular players are necessary for the fan base, and when they go, so will the fans.

[toughguy]

I think we can all agree the twins are a small market team.

I don't agree with that. The MSP market is consistently ranked 16-18 out of 32 in MLB. They are a mid market team that is making $ hand over fist from their new stadium. I'm done going to games until they start spending money. I won't support the way they are driving this franchise into the ground. If attendance drops maybe they'll notice and field a better team. Their current line up is a complete joke that isn't up to MLB standards.

[Musky Buck]

Interesting read depleted farm system, we have the top # 1 minor league player of the year. Sano,Buxton,Gibson, Hicks, not a bad 4 pack of players, is there others? I can only dream of how much better off we'd be if a team would've claimed Mauer off waivers last year. 4 guys at 6 million a year sounds better than 1 guy at 23. However we slice it we're nearing the buck buchanon days of old. I understand why Selig wanted to contract us and why Joe Nathan was so happy to get out of here. Sorry Gardy, it's not your fault too often, except when you're bunting in the first inning with our starters era being around 7, we may need to try for a big inning, it's time to get some youthful energy at manager, isn't 50% of the reason many like Gardy is because when he gets booted we all love that, that he can express our frustrations, that's he's 1 of us, on our side etc, sticking up for the guys, etc. You don't think the next manager would do the same ? I just hope he asked if we give Joe 186 million dollars, what's that leave for adding solid options to the roster or resigning solid players ? I suppose we better hang onto him 1 more year so he can see the all-star game at target field. Think that great trade for Vance Worley, think he'll get the opening day start next year ? I honestly think Liriano sandbagged last year to get out of here. I need to know this, is Joe Mauer in the dugout meaning since his phantom concussion all these ailments a doctor can only go by his word, is his hind end in the dugout with the team ? Is he traveling with them ? Is he around the guys during BP helping out some ? Or is he conveniently at home babysitting I mean watching the nanny of the day babysit ? I've likely had a few concussions as you can tell lol but I never missed being at a practice or game or school etc. You couldn't force me to be away from my guys and the team, no way, I can rest when I'm dead. If he's just no where to be seen anymore he's ran the leg weakness, flu like symptoms, concussion, what's next years ailment going to be when he's had enough and we're out of the running ? Gardy has sure just been petting Joe through the years.

[rundrave]

The Twins won the division three times in five years with Mauer in the middle of the lineup didn't they? If he didn’t get all the credit then, why does he get all the blame now? Why should we hold the one good player on a bad team responsible for the losing seasons? Why doesn’t anybody complain about the rest of the guys who stink as much as you complain about Mauer?

Catcher is the most physically demanding position in the sport.But your right he should try to play through a concussion for a last-place team.

[milkingman]

I also agree you play through this concussion. If you get a few more foul tips into your head, who cares . Suck it up. It"s not like any ahtletes in their 40"s and 50"s can"t remember things or they are committing suicide. You signed this contract to play ball and your making all this money. Your kids will be set up for life even though at some time in your life you may not know their names. Come on Joe do it for us, You owe us this with your contract no matter what your health is

[Big Dave2]

Why should we hold the one good player on a bad team responsible for the losing seasons? Why doesn’t anybody complain about the rest of the guys who stink as much as you complain about Mauer?

Because he's making 23 million dollars per year and he's one of the main reasons why the team is full of other guys who stink.

[Ybone]

The reason this team stinks has nothing to do with Mauer's salary. It's because of bad moves by management mainly Bill Smith. It's not like they're strapped for cash, they cut payroll and that 23 mil wouldn't suddenly bring in free agent ace pitchers. Most of those don't work out anyway, think Barry Zito or Santana or Edwin Jackson who everyone wanted the Twins to sign last winter. He signed a $50 million contract and is 8 and 16 with an era pushing 5.00. Also you don't play through a concussion, if you've ever had one you would realize that.

[toughguy]

...or maybe you keep 2-3 of the 7 former Twins that were all-stars last year.

[nofishfisherman]

Because he's making 23 million dollars per year and he's one of the main reasons why the team is full of other guys who stink.

Without Mauer and his 23 million per year contract the Twins would most likely have a career minor leaguer at catcher making less than $1 million/year. The Twins would then send the 22 million dollar saving directly to the bank. I have absolutely no faith that they'd spend that money to upgrade other positions. Remember they told the fans that once they were in the new stadium they'd have a payroll around the $100 million mark, well they only held to that for 1 year. They have currently cut payroll by about 30% and have a payroll around $70 million (probably less than $70 after trading Morneau). Based on their original promise there is already $30 million/year that they could be spending and still stay under their projected payroll. If they're willing to sit on $30 million what makes you think they wouldn't just sit on $50 million if the got rid of Mauers contract?