Change???? maybe a little.

[Random guy]

it's been said many times the metro are wants a solution for rural situation.

Now that is an understatement! How dare we all attempt to make a living in the state park. Bunch of dirty hillbillies all living like savages in the woods. Zero understanding of rural life other then it is wrong.

[Ybone]

So you want to close grouse season early because you're done hunting and everyone else should be too and they probably have their limit maybe even freezers full plus the grouse need a break or there won't be any left even though studies have shown that December hunting has little to do with overall bird numbers.

[9339za]

I believe the guy on WCCO was a southern MN beagle hunter.

Other than a 3 day check what real advantage is there to body grips for bobcats? Does it outweigh killing more fisher that can't be sold at a time when our fisher population is dropping?

[Saw557]

So you want to close grouse season early because you're done hunting and everyone else should be too and they probably have their limit maybe even freezers full plus the grouse need a break or there won't be any left even though studies have shown that December hunting has little to do with overall bird numbers.

Yup I want to close grouse season December 15 it's called compromise rember that's what this is about not take from one group. I have yet to hear one bird hunter complain about the 16 day big game season and why is this it's because there are a half million deer hunters. How would it go over if i turned my dog wirh a beeper on loose opening day of deer season you dont need much of an imagination to figure that out there are some things you dont do just because you can There are only 8000 trappers so it's a lot eaiser target

I have yet to hear one bird hunter give a good reason for a 120 day grouse season other than that's the way it's always been. Using the same logic I should be able to set a 220 on the ground also. If this was about compromise then what is giving up 15 days out of a 120 day season but it's not about compromise its about banning trapping

As far as using conibears for bobcats if you have ever done it or know anything about it a 3 day check is a huge deal give us a 3 day check on snares and it might be considered a fair compromise

Unlike a lot of people here I know what I am talking about on both bird hunting and trapping and I am not buying into the media hype phantom dog deaths or near deaths as the latest story. I have no time for the ignorant people who don't know what they're talking about and seem to think they need their hand held every time they go potty or venture outdoors

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Yup I want to close grouse season December 15 it's called compromise rember that's what this is about not take from one group. I have yet to hear on bird hunter complain about the 16 day big game season when IMO you would have to be crazy to hunt birds during and why is this it's because there are a half million deer hunters. How would it go over if i turned my dog wirh a beeper on loose opening day of deer season you dont need much of an imagination to figure that out there are some things you dont do just be because you can There are only 8000 trappers so it's a lot eaiser target

+1.

Only Nov. 30th would be better..

[mattson]

i'v been reading some of these post well most of then i'm a dog owner and a hunter, and i also want to get into trapping. One of the reason i want to get into trapping is that it helps to controll and keeps the animals in check. Look at what ducks unliminted is doing and Deta is trying to do out in the dakotas. I just feel that if we limit trapping were going to see other changes in like fewer birds. Because these like in Raccon, coty, skunk they all eat eggs. There other things that play into effect to but come on people. WE cant let this go down this road. There risks out every where we go. I just don't want to see a ban on Trapping.(sorry about the spelling but it just frustrates me to no end.)

[Random guy]

I can't understand why the DNR is going out of their way to break the bond between hunters and trappers. This is going to really hurt trappers.

We need to contact the DNR and tell them we want a REAL solution.

The DNR is looking at the REAL solution. They are seeing past a couple dogs and looking at the carrying capacity of most managed habitats. The backlash of furbearer populations growing out of control and the loss of the one effective control tool they have against overpopulating furbearing species. The DNR loses trapping or even slows it down anymore they lose controlled management. The DNR is also looking at the loss of license revenue, state revenue and even the domino effect that restricting one sport can create. First it’s the 220 giving the anti’s ammo to push for the end of snares, and then traps all together. This is before it goes to automatic shotguns then multiple shot game guns and maybe even the use of dogs.

Sorry to burst your bubble but its a big hard mean world out there with a big hot sun burning every day, it’s not all walks in the park with your dog.

[9339za]

Restricting body grip traps in a way that prevents killing dogs won't be the end of trapping. It won't even slow it down. Body grip traps are just a tool and we need to adapt that tool to a changing woods or we will lose it completely.

Continuing to kill dogs WILL threaten trapping and I don't want to see that.

[FCspringer]

Thank you Gray Fox. And I am sorry if this gets to that point again. I thought it was possible, but perhaps I was wrong.

Fellas, have you all read the sugestions I came up with in the first few posts? Do you have some other Ideas? If not just don't argue and post. Change is going to happen you can bet on that. It would most likely be better for the sportsmen involved to have ideas that work, then to have someone not involved in making the decisions. Flinging mud around will only result in some landing on the trap and springing it forever. Get back to ideas to keep em set. The closing of grouse season by a certain date has been brought up. Funny thing about the fisher, I have seen some down this far south recently. They basicly are not know to be this far south. Perhaps it is that the population is not in such a decline as one thinks. I see them in the same area I set ground sets for coon with 220's. I have not caught one ever. I do not target them however. But at one tree stand I have a set just 30 yards away along the river bank. And he has been there several times. Always trying hard to get the rabbits out of the big brush pile that is there. Neat scene.

[9339za]

The DNR furbearer biologist John Erbe came to our group and gave a talk on fisher. He said that statewide the population is headed downward in the traditional areas but is slightly increasing in the non-traditional areas. I have to wonder what impact the incidental take of fisher in bobcat body grips is having on the overall population. The same thing must be happening with marten.

They are a neat animal and I would have to have them removed from trapping season.

I think that most grouse hunters would be okay with a 9 day body grip season. We already stay out of the woods during deer season. Or move the 9 day season after the first of the year. Or require them to be set in boxes with holes restricted to 3 or 3 1/2". That's plenty of room for a fisher or marten even the big males.

Some of us trappers catch plenty without resorting to body grips on the ground and entire states require body grips off the ground so I don't understand why MN trappers can't too.

[Random guy]

More generalization and assumptions.

I have never caught a fisher in a bobcat set and I cannot recall a time I caught an incidental martin and we have been doing this since the 1930’s! I did catch an incidental bobcat in a coyote snare set, if you want to take a gander at this large cat it will be on display in the metro as I caught it two days before cat season and turned it into the warden.

As for the fisher population that is very regional, I was done in three days and yes I used ground sets 220s as seldom do I get decent fisher up the tree; small young ones yes but the nice ones stay on the ground. Actually when I get my fisher tags filled I pull the ground sets and then use only elevated as I will only catch martin then to fill my three martin tags.

So yet another post from you with another random generalization while inciting the trapper is an indiscriminate killer of all animals and is so ignorant he/she will destroy themselves. Of course I like how you always throw in little threats of what will be taken away UNLESS we comply to the dog laws.

9339za, how about your real name for some accountability, easy to fire off these posts from behind a made up username. My real name is posted and I am accountable for my statements, how about you?

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I have yet to hear one bird hunter give a good reason for a 120 day grouse season other than that's the way it's always been. Using the same logic I should be able to set a 220 on the ground also. If this was about compromise then what is giving up 15 days out of a 120 day season but it's not about compromise its about banning trapping

This...

Haven't seen anyone address this yet. No gripes about deer season, but some apparently can't make room in their busy grouse hunting schedule for trapping season.

[Ybone]

When I was getting bobcat tagged I talked with a DNR employee about the lack of fisher in my area and he said the bobcat population has risen and they are hard on fisher. He said they tagged more fisher to the southwest near Osakis even though the habitat is poor but fewer bobcats. So how do you prevent fisher from getting in your bobcat sets? Since the fisher are scarce in my area it wasn't a problem but I don't see any difference between a baited bobcat set and a baited fisher set.

[Random guy]

For fisher I run a small baited 220 cubby tight to the ground and often under tree roots. I also use Martin musk on my fisher sets. For some reason the Bobcats around here will not go close to the martin stink. For cats I go with snares and visual attractants/bait. Fisher seldom fall for or get hung up in the snare trick if the loop is set right where as it is deaadly for yotes and cats.

[swamptiger]

Good ideas Jonny..

Do you use mostly snares for bobcats then?

Sorry - missed the sentence where you said you went with snares and visual attractors..

[Random guy]

Yes as I can run long lines and set them fast, plus I am working yotes at the same time.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Yes as I can run long lines and set them fast, plus I am working yotes at the same time.

Makes sense - don't need to cart so much stuff around that way either..

[9339za]

This is a statewide issue or at best a zone issue. There are lots of trappers like myself and many others who never have and never will kill a dog because of the methods we choose to use. There are also lots of trappers who never have and never will kill a dog through sheer luck.

Our laws aren't made for those 2 groups of trappers. They are made for the third group who because of careless set selection or bad luck are killing dogs. That's why all laws are made.

[Saw557]

Really 3.5 x 3.5 thats 12.5 sq in. As far as the decline in the fisher population the DNR thinks it may be related to the increase in bobcat so if you take away 220's on the ground (cats don't like to climb) what's going to happen to the fisher population. Doesn't take much more than my 8 th grade education to figure that one out

[9339za]

Many trappers like myself find that footholds are very effective at taking cats and Jonny said he uses snares. Where is the problem?

3 1/2 by 3 1/2 is plenty big enough for a male fisher. The guys that build the marten boxes make the holes less than 2 1/2 to keep the male fishers from killing the female marten. Boxes with those restricted openings would be dog safe and still effective.

Change is coming. We can adapt and continue or hang up our steel and go home and blame it all on those antis that some people like to claim are behind every tree.

[Saw557]

The problem is there is no compromise its take from the trapper. I have my doubts about your box sizes and unless I don't understand something about your marten boxes it makes no sense you said you limit the size so the male fishers don't kill the female Martin well if the Martin is in the box isn't it already dead

As far as 220 and bobcats it's a matter of the three day check law change the law so it applies to snares and leg holds for that matter and you may have something remember it's about comprise right

[Ybone]

He's talking about nesting boxes so the martin can raise their brood without fisher killing them.

[Saw557]

He's talking about nesting boxes so the martin can raise their brood without fisher killing them.

I kinda figured that's what he was talking about but brood boxes and effective cubby boxes are two different things and of not much use for what were trying to talk about

[9339za]

The opening size applies regardless of the intent.

My point was that trappers can continue to safely take fisher and marten on the ground with body grips by reducing the opening size to 3 1/2" or we can elevate our body grips like trappers in other states and provinces. Really the only animal that can't be taken in large numbers off the ground is bobcat and we have more effective means than body grips.

[NORTHCRAZE]

"Doesn't take much more than my 8 th grade education to figure that one out"

Well now I understand why your posts read as they do!

[LOTWSvirgin]

Most of you are talking about the northern part of the state what about the southern part Where its a totally different world of trapping? 220's are my number one set for coons after the water freezes whether its a bucket set or a trail set

[Saw557]

Despite what some may think I have more than an 8th grade education....

There has been way to much bickering and stories of the bogey man and what ifs. How about a little discussion. Here are my ideas...again.That as a trapper and a dog hunter I think are more than reasonable to anyone that is open to compromise remember both sides have to give up something

1)Elevate 220's on public land 4' and restrict openings to 50sq.in.

2)Allow a 3 day check on snares to make up for the loss of 220's on the ground to help bobcat trappers

3)Close grouse season Dec. 15 and delay the opening of Fisher/Martin and Bobcat season until then. Extend Bobcat the number of days it was delayed

Pretty simple and painless for everyone involved. I am sure closing grouse season 2 weeks early wouldn't be real popular but it will affect far fewer hunters than further restrictions to trappers. Everyone has given up something its a COMPROMISE!!!!

Rather than flame my ideas or insult my education I would like to see constructive comments and rational responses why they may or may not work. At the end of the day it isn't going to matter what happens here anyway it's going to be settled in St. Paul and isn't going to make everyone happy anyway.

[Saw557]

Well now I understand why your posts read as they do!

[Todd Caswell]

I personally have NO problem with this, I personally treat this 15 day season much like the firearms deer season, as in " I PREFER TO STAY OUT OF THE WOODS WITH MY DOGS" During your season. This makes complete sence in the northern half of the state for bird hunters and trappers BUT what is a logical and commen sence aproach to the southern part of the state from early Oct.--- to the start of firearms deer season in Nov..???? I would much like to hear a realistic suggestion...

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I personally have NO problem with this, I personally treat this 15 day season much like the firearms deer season, as in " I PREFER TO STAY OUT OF THE WOODS WITH MY DOGS" During your season. This makes complete sence in the northern half of the state for bird hunters and trappers BUT what is a logical and commen sence aproach to the southern part of the state from early Oct.--- to the start of firearms deer season in Nov..???? I would much like to hear a realistic suggestion...

Good question, and I don't have the answer. In my mind, it all really gets down to the use of the 220 for coon. But I'm pretty sure a dog could get their head into a 160 too.. And I'm not much of a coon trapper, so I'd like to see some ideas coming from coon trappers.