Change???? maybe a little.

[FCspringer]

I guess I disagree. A trap needs bait to draw in a varmint. Why do you not think the idea of off the ground will work? Along with the other ideas I just listed. Just curious. Saw, can you PM me that email address.

[HunterLee]

Ditch trapping and ROW trapping is one of the best things about MN trapping. I highly doubt anyone will ever go for banning that. 220's in trail sets do not caught dogs.

We already have to be 500 ft from dwellings what more do people need for there dogs. If your dog is running more than 200yds from your house you need to address the problem.

A 220 in the water is worthless, and the new coon dp's work good, but don't do a lick of good when the ground is froze.

Baited 220's are the main set that get dogs in trouble but they are also one of the few sets for bobcats, fisher, marten, and some coon, but i don't use them for coon as there are better sets for the most part.

I have no worries about my dog and baited cubbys but mine knows they are bad news as she runs traps with me. Educate your dog we teach them a ton of other things why not what traps are.

[HunterLee]

Animals are not going to climb a tree up a tree to get caught.

[9339za]

A trapper on the Outdoor News forum brought up an important point about the use of body grips for bobcat. He pointed out all the incidental fisher that are killed every season in bobcat sets. I think he's right. Look at the Cuffs and Collars each week and almost every one has reports of incidental fishers. Our fisher population is dropping and if we continue to kill them in bobcat sets after fisher trapping closes we are headed for a point where there will be NO fisher season for anyone.

Trappers here in MN and in states that require body grip traps to be elevated catch plenty of fisher, marten and coon off the ground. There's no reason why we need to set body grips on land for those animals.

[Random guy]

A 220 in the water is worthless,

I dont think so, fully submerged yes but as a normal 1/2 submerged they are great.

[FCspringer]

Again 9339za, I notice your from Nth MN. You may have a point about doing something for Bobcat season. But that idea of no sets on the ground does not work where we have no trees in rural farming MN. But we have lots of coon. There is simply no place to put them off the ground in alot of area. Perhaps a change in season for the bobcat?

[Random guy]

But that idea of no sets on the ground does not work where we have no trees in rural farming MN.

Great point!

[FCspringer]

What do you guys think of adding in zones. That seems to be a direct conflict with the use of these traps. It seems the only trouble is in grouse hunting areas or like said now for a fisher. We just don't see these problems in greater rural farming MN with the land use the way it is. But would still be for the rules I stated even in these areas. Having Zones could target the problem areas and still allow use in farming MN where there is no trees. Can't say as I agree that the 220 is not as good for coon as other sets. I find it to be the most affective my self, but thats just me. Every one I know uses them solely on racoon in Sth MN.

[HunterLee]

I met more along the lines as a beaver trap. I use plenty in the water but not with coon and beaver in mind.

Make great bottom edge rat sets and cross overs for rat and otter.

[FCspringer]

I met more along the lines as a beaver trap. I use plenty in the water but not with coon and beaver in mind.

Make great bottom edge rat sets and cross overs for rat and otter.

Yeah I hear ya. Seems to be different for people depending on where we live. Just about every post contains ideas from seperate areas. The 220 for pretty much everyone I can think of is a coon set, and lots of them. We typicaly do not set a leg hold for coon. The 1 1/2s are set for fox or a combo mink,rat coon set. # 1's the same basicly, but targeting mink. 110's we use mostly for mink and some water rats in runs. Beaver, the 330. then the rats in the ice, a stop loss. We do not have fisher and bobcat etc like you folks up nort. The 220 for coon was basicly my money. Long line them and the other sets paid the gas.

[FCspringer]

I understand the right of way thought as well. I grew up hunting and trapping them. I hate to see any access go. How ever it might be good in this reguard to in fact protect trapping. You could still set the ditch the same. But with permission. Same for hunting. Basicly what North Dakota does. This could keep the accidents if any down with chance encounters. Today there is growing concern from land owners about road hunting as well. They just do not care for it. And if asked, most land owners will allow trapping. I always asked 90 % of where my sets were. That alone will stop accidents for the most part, beyond tresspassers, or irresponsible dog owners that let a dog run the country. If you ask for both, you both know who is out there.

[monstermoose78]

Trappers are a minority and its time they play the discrimination card! Question If a person can get a ticket for leaving their [PoorWordUsage] on the lake why cant the dog owner get a ticket if they do not clean after their dog? I have walked many trails and have found dog [PoorWordUsage] on them.

I say no hunting with dogs from December 1st until the 21st then it would open back up to the use of dogs in the martin and fisher zone. If the bird dog hunters cant loose anything then the trappers need to play the minority card and because they are being discriminated because they are few in number.

Trapping for bobcat martin and fisher would be from December 1st to the 21st. Then from December 22nd whinny hunters could hunt until jan 1st with they poor puppy dogs.

[swamptiger]

I've been wondering about the places and dates the six dogs were caught. Does anyone have this information?

[Saw557]

I don't think closing grouse season early is going to happen and it shouldn't. Late season grouse hunting is a totally different experience. The simplest solution is to eliminate baited 220s on the ground which will be unpopular with a lot trappers and I don't like it either but sometimes it's better to lose a little than lose a lot. Without bait the dog killing problem should be almost nonexistent and the sooner the better. The more publicity this gets the worse it is for trapping in general.

So we're back to the no compromise just take from the trappers. As Ive said more than once I run a pair of pointing dogs myself and by the time December gets here I have my legal limit and am done hunting I also feel at this point the birds that have survived this long deserve a break

[swamptiger]

I've been scrounging the internet to see if I could find out where these incidents took place, and so far what I've found is 1 east of Hinckley, 1 in White Bear Township, 1 near Brainerd, and 1 near Lake City. Couldn't find any more information, but from what I've found, all reported incidents took place from Brainerd south.

So once again, it looks like we in the north get drug into the problems down south....

If someone has any better information, please feel free to correct me.

[Trashguy]

John Reynolds dog (Springer) was killed near Emily last Dec. Is not Hinckley and Brainerd considered "north" and grouse country?

[swamptiger]

Quote:

John Reynolds dog (Springer) was killed near Emily last Dec. Is not Hinckley and Brainerd considered "north" and grouse country?

Ok - so 1 out of 5 so far.

Brainerd is central, and Hinckley is definately south....

[Saw557]

Bicker on...... its not going to settled here Big Brother will take care of it in St. Paul where they are always looking out for our own good. Maybe the moderators should just lock and ban any talk of trapping on the forum and be done with it because after all thats what the general public and the majority want.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

its not going to settled here Big Brother will take care of it in St. Paul where they are always looking out for our own good.

That's what will happen anyway at this point.

Just pointing out that hopefully, for once, they won't come up with a southern solution for a non-existent northern problem.

[Saw557]

That's what will happen anyway at this point.

Just pointing out that hopefully, for once, they won't come up with a southern solution for a non-existent northern problem.

[FCspringer]

I've been scrounging the internet to see if I could find out where these incidents took place, and so far what I've found is 1 east of Hinckley, 1 in White Bear Township, 1 near Brainerd, and 1 near Lake City. Couldn't find any more information, but from what I've found, all reported incidents took place from Brainerd south.

So once again, it looks like we in the north get drug into the problems down south....

If someone has any better information, please feel free to correct me.

LOL, many would consider Brainerd and Hinkley north. I think the thought is that Grouse are a northern bird. And there for, consider the North Zone the Grouse range. Once you get north of Alex it basicly starts. Those areas you mentioned are popular areas for the metro folks to Grouse hunt. So that could explain some of the reason for any encounter. I did not see any of these encounters that were south of Brainerd..

[FCspringer]

And also with the couple nasty posts recently, perhaps it was pointless to think that like minds could come togeather and come up with some good thoughts. I guess we should just write this off and go fishing. LOL

[swamptiger]

Quote:

LOL, many would consider Brainerd and Hinkley north. I think the thought is that Grouse are a northern bird. And there for, consider the North Zone the Grouse range. Once you get north of Alex it basicly starts. Those areas you mentioned are popular areas for the metro folks to Grouse hunt. So that could explain some of the reason for any encounter. I did not see any of these encounters that were south of Brainerd..

The only encounter that was north of Brainerd was the one in Emily, unless the 6th one was in the north.

Quote:

Those areas you mentioned are popular areas for the metro folks to Grouse hunt. So that could explain some of the reason for any encounter.

Yes, that's basically what I'm getting at. The areas that are heavily hunted and trapped at the same time are naturally where the problems are going to be, and those areas are generally from Brainerd south.

Not making nasty comments in my mind - simply stating the facts. Those of us who live in the northern areas of the state are used to this sort of thing - it's nothing new to us. Other examples would be ATV access/trails and wetlands management - southern solutions to non-existent northern problems.

[swampman]

I guess you can look at it however you want from where I am sitting it was the one incident in the north where the guy went to the media and opened this whole wasp's nest. I can see why the trappers assoc decided early on to deal with this in the legal and legislative route,dealing with this in a public format is counterproductive I think the threads here the last month prove that. I know I am guilty as anybody, push comes to shove and most people look out for number one.

[9339za]

No matter what any of us think as long as dogs are being killed regardless of the circumstance trapping will be the center of public attention. I don't think that is good for trapping. I like to just do my thing and be left alone.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

No matter what any of us think as long as dogs are being killed regardless of the circumstance trapping will be the center of public attention. I don't think that is good for trapping. I like to just do my thing and be left alone.

I agree with that, and I also believe it will be the trappers who will need to compromise in the end. This is a simple mathematical reality. That doesn't necessarily make it right, however.

I referred to southern solutions to non-existent northern problems earlier, but in a broader context it amounts to urban solutions to non-existent rural problems. We are seeing this all over the country, so this just a continuation of an ongoing trend with the end goal of banning trapping as a sport altogether.

Bird dog hunters should keep in mind that they also are in a definate minority with the overall urban-based population, so beware of the trend. You could be next.

[Saw557]

Read in the Star this morning what the DNR proposal is it makes no mention of compromise by anyone other than trappers...imagine that and it goes on to quote Sen Chuck Wiger of Maplewood (a metro suburb) one of the authors of the original proposal as saying "its a start but I am not sure it adequately protects dogs" I think the DNR's proposal is reasonable although it doesnt help bobcat trappers.

DNR PROPOSAL

All 220's on public land elevated 4 feet except for vertical sets which would have the opening no more than 6" off the ground

Cubby opening limited to 50" sq. in

trigger of the trap recessed 7" from opening unless its a vertical set than its 4"

there is no mention of water sets being completely submerged

If this is not "adequate" enough to protect dogs what does Sen Wiger have in mind and what are his real intentions. Its funny how all this stuff originate from Metro area law makers that have more than likely never set a trap in their life.

[Tinkhamtown]

I hunt Dora Lake/ Squaw Lake area and went up December 2009 to hunt grouse. I know two trappers in the area one Bob Marketer 71 at the time and Arnie Carlson 74 at the time. After a couple of inches of fresh snow I started hunting grouse knowing how hard it was going to be to find the birds. First area down by the Bowstring River I run into Bob who warns me he has conibears in the area and if my springer gets into them they will get killed. Moved a mile and a half and was just going to start hunting a trail when Arnie drove up and warned me about large conibear set on left side of T a half mile down trial. Out of respect for older friendly trappers I packed up and went home to protecting my two dogs from fatal run in with conibears. I also do not hunt grouse during deer hunting season because I don’t want dogs or I accidently shot. Could we have grouse season end November 30 and trapping start December 1 with a special conibear season during the days of deer season? Cannot see punishing all good trappers because of six dead dogs just need to figure out how we can share the same resource- public land and make it safer for hunting dog. I am sure all trappers agree one dead dog is one too many. Let’s find a good answer! As Arnie said fur prices were down at the time but how could he quit doing something he loved at 74 how many years do I have left? I know as Bob told me several times he would trap for free he loves it so much. I am 66 and love to hunt grouse with springers but I don’t think a grouse is worth the chance of my dogs getting killed. WE HAVE A PROBLEM!

[Todd Caswell]

Here is the proposed bill

[Random guy]

I see some common sense about water sets, private land and 110/120 conibears finally came into play. Also the baited cubby with a 50 sq. inch opening is not bad. Very doable deal for the bucket setters. Simply cut a 7x7" opening in a bucket lid and two 7" slots to recess the trap. Place the trap in the bucket and install the lid over the trap. Easy peasy lemon squeezey.

I am sure some deabte will occur aas a seven inch hole and seven inches back will increase misses on racoons

I also notice it is a 100% give from the trappers and zero from dog owners. Where are the bills and proposals for keeping dogs under control? I think if the trappers have to give a little so should dog owners, solidify the safety of these dogs? Correct?