Who should the Vikes draft?

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I would agree with all of that and its not that I dont want Kalil, just not at 3 if possible. I am still hoping someone gets antsy on draft day and we are able to move back a few spots and still get him AND another pick or too. Would be MORE then happy with that.

By the way, Justin Blackmon will not be the next Troy Williamson, lets just make that clear right now

[james_walleye]

I remember someone on this website saying that about Michael Crabtree......

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

ANd your definantly right about that James, EVERYONE is saying to take Kalil. Thats the same as I have heard to. Still doesnt make me comfortable doing it at 3 unless hes gonna be border line hall of fame material. Which he very well may be, who knows

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I remember someone on this website saying that about Michael Crabtree......

Well i know that wasnt me!

[goblueM]

ANd your definantly right about that James, EVERYONE is saying to take Kalil. Thats the same as I have heard to. Still doesnt make me comfortable doing it at 3 unless hes gonna be border line hall of fame material. Which he very well may be, who knows

i am still trying to understand your logic or lack thereof. The vikes have to take someone, so are you saying that if a tackle is taken he must be a HOF candidate? But not another position?

[soldoncass]

I've been thinking about all the OLinemen the Vikes have......they seem to be ALL GUARDS. Loadholt for RT and Brown backs him up, but who backs up LT? Johnson is playing out of position at LT, because of necessity. Love was projected to be a tackle, but had some injuries that are now taken care of. Maybe he could work out at a tackle spot. Valdez is another one that has practiced at tackle , in his practice squad days. Schwatz can back-up RT, I read.....but all the rest are guards. To me we seem overloaded in guards....but LOW in TACKLES. I bet we take 2 tackles in the draft somewhere. The only question is WHERE and WHO.I think the Washington trade took us out of a realistic trade-down in round 1....but I fully expect Speilman to try to trade us UP from round 3 back into mid round 2, if someone is there they want. Would our early round #3 and early #5 do it or would we need to use our #4? This will be a fluid draft for us I believe.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Read prior post- I see a top 3 pick as a skill position pick. You dont have to agree with it, dont really care. If you take a tackle, a guy that can block 1 man across from him on any given play and thats all, not run, pass, catch, defend a pass, intercept a pass, strip the ball, sack the QB, or score a td on any given play, then in my view he better be pretty dam good. Especially with the highest pick the vikings have ever had...

My logic may not be the same as your logic, dont know how to explain it to you any better. Your more then welcome to disagree

[zepman]

I would agree with all of that and its not that I dont want Kalil, just not at 3 if possible. I am still hoping someone gets antsy on draft day and we are able to move back a few spots and still get him AND another pick or too. Would be MORE then happy with that.

By the way, Justin Blackmon will not be the next Troy Williamson, lets just make that clear right now

I'll bet the Dolphins try to trade up with the Vikes to get the #3 QB. If that were to happen, that would have us picking at #8, I believe.

That's my prediction for our 1st round draft spot this year. #8

[Fish Head]

Read prior post- I see a top 3 pick as a skill position pick. You dont have to agree with it, dont really care. If you take a tackle, a guy that can block 1 man across from him on any given play and thats all, not run, pass, catch, defend a pass, intercept a pass, strip the ball, sack the QB, or score a td on any given play, then in my view he better be pretty dam good. Especially with the highest pick the vikings have ever had...

My logic may not be the same as your logic, dont know how to explain it to you any better. Your more then welcome to disagree

Actually this is not the highest pick the Vikings have ever had. Twice they've had the 1st overall pick. In fact, they picked a tackle #1 overall in 1968 and he ended up in the hall of fame.

I think we need a stud left tackle to anchor this O-line, but I would prefer to trade down and pick Riley Rief from Iowa. Unfortunately I don't think anyone will be willing to give us enough to make it worth while. Either way, they should get a quality player at #3.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I did mention since 68' in a previous post fish head... but they had #1 because they were an expansion team. This is the highest pick they have ever "earned" as far as I know.

Zep- i would love it if that happens, but i think if someone is going to trade up to us its gonna be for Blackmon or maybe Claiborne. The Dolphins along with the rest of the league know that we're not taking another QB, so they wouldnt have to trade all the way up to our spot to get him. I think we need to look more for teams that need a WR or CB bad... (like the vikings)

[FISHINGURU]

My O-line would be so mean we'd average 10 yards per carry, Ponder could hike the ball take a 5 step drop and decide to tie his shoe and still hit Percy or Rudolph down the middle.

[Ybone]

They had the 1st pick in 1968 because they traded Fran Tarkenton to the NY Giants and used it to pick Ron Yary who ended up in the hall of fame and I believe he was a left tackle. They also had the 1st pick in 1961 as an expansion team and picked Tommy Mason a running back.

[Rippinlip]

I will say Kalil again.

There are reasons he is up on the board that far.

Here are a few other lineman taken pretty high, see if you remember the names:

Name - position drafted - year

Gene Upshaw - #1 -1967

Orlando Pace - #1 - 1997

Art Shell - #3 - 1968

Jonathon Ogden - #4 - 1996

Randall Mcdaniel - #19 - 1988

Mike Webster - 5th round - 1974

Forrest Gregg - #2 -1971

Bruce Matthews - #9 - 1983

John Hannah - #4 - 1973

Anthony Munoz - #3 - 1980

Only 2 of them were taken out of the top 10 picks.

I am sure there are a few busts in there too, but I would really like to rocktify that position for a while and keep Christian upright to see what he could do.

High drafted lineman work out more than they don't. IMO

[james_walleye]

That's the key, Kalil is low risk. He's going to be good. That's why you take him. And for the vikings to be relevant soon they need to find the next Greg Jennings, Tramond Williams, and Nick Collins later in the draft as well.....

[dfv87]

I was flipping stations this AM so it was either KFAN or 93X...

An interesting conversation was on the radio this morning regarding Tannehill from TX A&M and his stellar workout... So we know Miami would love him at #8 but with Cle needing a QB maybe they would deal with us or maybe Cle would switch 3 vs 4 and kick a 4-6 rounder to us to make sure Miami doesn't jump up? If we flip with Cle we still get Kalil... if we drop to #8 we still likely can get him or go Martin from Stanford (I am assuming we are pretty set on going OL with our 1st pick, unless someone amazing falls to us.)

Anybody think this coversation has legs?

I am not sure we want to move down as we have 10 picks already and while we have ALOT of holes to fill I am not sure if 10 rookies makes us better quickly. I thought we should have gone after some established guys in FA... But they get to make those calls.

[Fish Head]

They had the 1st pick in 1968 because they traded Fran Tarkenton to the NY Giants and used it to pick Ron Yary who ended up in the hall of fame and I believe he was a left tackle. They also had the 1st pick in 1961 as an expansion team and picked Tommy Mason a running back.

That's right about the 1968 pick. They had the #1 pick in 1961 when there were an expansion team also. Ron Yary was a right tackle.

[mnviking28]

All depends on how Ricky plays his hand. If he is a good poker player, he convinces Cleveland that Miami is set to jump up ahead of them and take Tannehill. If he can do it, he should be able to get better than a 4th rounder from them. If they really think he is a franchise type qb, they should be willing to give at least an extra 3rd to swap positions with us. I realize it is only one place, but even so, it doesn't matter if it is one place or five if the guy you want is already gone. If he can convince them that Miami is willing to give their 1st and 2nd (which virtually any team would for a franchise qb), then Cleveland should be willing to part with their 3rd.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

They had the 1st pick in 1968 because they traded Fran Tarkenton to the NY Giants and used it to pick Ron Yary who ended up in the hall of fame and I believe he was a left tackle. They also had the 1st pick in 1961 as an expansion team and picked Tommy Mason a running back.

Thank you for correcting me, i was too lazy to google all that stuff. SO, ok.... the highest pick since 1968.

[zepman]

Cleveland might take him at 4...that's why they would trade up.

Cleveland and Miami both need a QB...Miami is hurting bad at the position.

Both have lot's and lot's of picks to play with this year.

We could easily get an extra 2nd and 3rd rounder this year for swapping out.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I will say Kalil again.

There are reasons he is up on the board that far.

Here are a few other lineman taken pretty high, see if you remember the names:

Name - position drafted - year

Gene Upshaw - #1 -1967

Orlando Pace - #1 - 1997

Art Shell - #3 - 1968

Jonathon Ogden - #4 - 1996

Randall Mcdaniel - #19 - 1988

Mike Webster - 5th round - 1974

Forrest Gregg - #2 -1971

Bruce Matthews - #9 - 1983

John Hannah - #4 - 1973

Anthony Munoz - #3 - 1980

Only 2 of them were taken out of the top 10 picks.

I am sure there are a few busts in there too, but I would really like to rocktify that position for a while and keep Christian upright to see what he could do.

High drafted lineman work out more than they don't. IMO

Thats what im sayin rippinlip... Im not against taking Kalil that high if hes as good as a Anthony Munoz or a Jonathon Ogden. If hes another Bryant McKinney ( taken #7 overall,who never gave up a sack at Miami) then I dont want anything to do with him that high in the draft. That all remains to be seen. Seems like every "expert" thinks hes the real deal...

Ben Leber was on the radio today with PA and he said he wouldnt take a tackle that high because he thinks you can find a good lineman or two or three later in the draft, which i tend to agree with. Doesnt make Ben Leber the last word on everything but its nice to hear someone that actually played in the NFL agree with my thinking.

( go ahead and make fun of me- i know its coming)

[Ybone]

Aw shucks Yiggins, we could never make fun of you.

[Scott K]

I dont think Bryant McKinney was a bad pick. If you can get 9 decent years from a LT, I would call that a very good pick! Sure he wasnt the best at the position, but for most of the years, he was above average, and he still is.

[Fish Head]

Anyone remember Tony Mandrich?

I would NEVER pick McKinney (or should I say McLazy) in the top 20 picks again.

Having said all that, I'm still a believer that we need to fix this line with studs... not patchwork. I have no problem with a tackle at #3 if Kalil at 3 if the Vikes grade him out that high.

[zepman]

He is the second best overall rated player in the entire draft...it took a once in every 20 years type prospect at QB to keep him from being the top player. McShay said he was the best tackle prospect he's ever rated since he started doing the draft analysis thing.

It's a huge position of need and he'll be the BPA...it SHOULD be a no-brainer. We'll see....

[TwinkeeDink]

I dont think Bryant McKinney was a bad pick. If you can get 9 decent years from a LT, I would call that a very good pick! Sure he wasnt the best at the position, but for most of the years, he was above average, and he still is.

you're kidding right? mckinney, still "above average?" i'll agree with the "was above average" part, but not much now

[goblueM]

Back to the whole ridiculous "#3 pick is a skill position pick" thing... SI.com had an article today examining the All-Pro first team players at each position grouping for the last 5 years

Here's their part on tackles:

"Tackles

Jake Long (Round 1, No. 1); Joe Thomas (Round 1, No. 3 overall); Walter Jones (Round 1, No. 6); Jordan Gross (Round 1, No. 8); Ryan Clady (Round 1, No. 12); Michael Roos (Round 2, No. 41); Matt Light (Round 2, No. 48); Jason Peters (Undrafted)

There’s no secret here: If you want a reliable, sometimes dominant tackle, then it’s going to cost you a high draft pick. Jason Peters’ story stands as the exception to the rule, as he slipped through the cracks at the 2004 draft, only to make the last five Pro Bowls and garner All-Pro nods in four of the last five seasons with Buffalo and Philadelphia.

Tackles are routinely drafted in the top 10 every year. This year we could see two in USC’s Matt Kalil and Iowa’s Riley Reiff."

and furthermore, defensive linemen:

Defensive Ends

Julius Peppers (Round 1, No. 2); Dwight Freeney (Round 1, No. 11); John Abraham (Round 1, No. 13); Jason Pierre-Paul (Round 1, No. 15); Patrick Kerney (Round 1, No. 30 overall); Justin Tuck (Round 3, No. 74); Jared Allen (Round 4, No. 126)

How highly coveted are talented pass-rushers? Well, look no further than the 2011 draft for your answer — nine first-round picks came from the defensive end position, including some hybrid DE/LB players like Aldon Smith, who stepped into a 3-4 defense and turned in an incredible rookie season. None of those nine jumped right onto the All-Pro team in 2011, but that could change in the near future. Plus, take Jared Allen out of the list of recent DE All-Pros, and it’s clear that the better talent comes from higher rounds.

Defensive Tackles

Ndamukong Suh (Round 1, No. 2); Justin Smith (Round 1, No. 4); Kevin Williams (Round 1, No. 9); Haloti Ngata (Round 1, No. 12 overall); Albert Haynesworth (Round 1, No. 15); Jay Ratliff (Round 7, No. 224)

You have to wonder where Jay Ratliff came from — the rest of the names here not only came off the board in the draft’s first round, but within the top 15 picks. Teams running the 3-4 are constantly in search of nose tackles who can stuff the middle, while teams like the Lions (Suh in 2010, Nick Fairley at No. 13 overall in 2011) have decided to build their defenses from the front on out. Ratliff’s All-Pro breakthrough came in 2009, but he’s made the last four Pro Bowls as well.

The dominance of defensive tackles taken so early bodes well for Memphis’ Dontari Poe, Mississippi State’s Fletcher Cox and LSU’s Michael Brockers, all expected to go within the first 20 picks.

[bdafisher]

Kalil, end of story. Day one starter, at a position of great need. Why is it even a conversation. The only way I would say don't draft him at three is if we can drop down a couple spots and draft Kalil there. I am not really sure why this is so debatable. Grading, Schmading. We need a friggen left tackle and he is the best one available.

[Rippinlip]

Kalil, end of story. Day one starter, at a position of great need. Why is it even a conversation. The only way I would say don't draft him at three is if we can drop down a couple spots and draft Kalil there. I am not really sure why this is so debatable. Grading, Schmading. We need a friggen left tackle and he is the best one available.

Simple and to the point!!!!

Way to go!

+1

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Back to the whole ridiculous "#3 pick is a skill position pick" thing... SI.com had an article today examining the All-Pro first team players at each position grouping for the last 5 years

Here's their part on tackles:

"Tackles

Jake Long (Round 1, No. 1); Joe Thomas (Round 1, No. 3 overall); Walter Jones (Round 1, No. 6); Jordan Gross (Round 1, No. 8); Ryan Clady (Round 1, No. 12); Michael Roos (Round 2, No. 41); Matt Light (Round 2, No. 48); Jason Peters (Undrafted)

There’s no secret here: If you want a reliable, sometimes dominant tackle, then it’s going to cost you a high draft pick. Jason Peters’ story stands as the exception to the rule, as he slipped through the cracks at the 2004 draft, only to make the last five Pro Bowls and garner All-Pro nods in four of the last five seasons with Buffalo and Philadelphia.

Tackles are routinely drafted in the top 10 every year. This year we could see two in USC’s Matt Kalil and Iowa’s Riley Reiff."

and furthermore, defensive linemen:

Defensive Ends

Julius Peppers (Round 1, No. 2); Dwight Freeney (Round 1, No. 11); John Abraham (Round 1, No. 13); Jason Pierre-Paul (Round 1, No. 15); Patrick Kerney (Round 1, No. 30 overall); Justin Tuck (Round 3, No. 74); Jared Allen (Round 4, No. 126)

Umm yeah, 2 of all those tackles you or SI or whoever listed are in the top 3 picks, which is I believe what we are talking about hear are we not? How the rest of them are relevant i dont know other then your proving you can get a stud tackle LATER in the first rd or the draft. The vikings have the 3rd pick. So you can name two that were takin' in the top 3 recently and their both on terrible teams. That sways my opinion none.

Second of all, I would consider defensive ends a skill position- They can change the outcomes of games single handidly along with a handful of other positions. So throw that argument out too ...

This whole time ive been saying i dont mind taking him if we can just trade down a few and get another pick. Good cohesive offensive lines that are on the same page with blitz pick-ups and communication are what win super bowls, not necessarliy stud left tackles. So like i said, if we take a TACKLE with a TOP 3 pick- he better well be dominant or its a waste to take him that high.

How far back do you have to go to find a super bowl winner with a tackle that was takin in the top 3? Or even a perrenial playoff team? Miami and Cleveland sure arent either of those. That would be some interesting info to know

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Since 2000- a pretty good sample size- Here are the tackles that have gone in the TOP 3

2000-#3 Chris Samuels, Washington

2004- #2 Robert Gallery, Raiders

2007- #3 Joe Thomas, Cleveland

2008- #1 Jake Long, Miami (Number 1 overall... really? With Ryan Clady taken at #12 and Jeff Otah at #19 respectively who are more then good enough... )

2009-#2 Jason Smith, St. Louis

3 questions-

Which one of these guys was worthy of where they were drafted the most to you?

How much impact did these stud left tackles taken with a top 3 pick have on their repective teams?

Tell me again why i shouldnt be leary of taking a tackle with a top 3 pick?