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Looks like N.D. is giving in


Steve Foss

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Did anyone watch the 20/20 special on the pine ridge reservation in South Dakota?

I miss that. What does it have to do with the logo?

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I'm not a UND fan but please don't change the name to something silly like Express, Wind, Blizzard, Freeze, etc. Come up with something original and specific to ND that's a noun. i.e. I'm a Wild fan but I hate the name. Although it's not original Pioneers would be kind of cool. Would be the other side of Sioux name issue too. Germans? Homesteaders? Frackers? Hunters? I like Roughriders too. Isn't one of ND's nicknames the Roughrider state?

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That please become a sponsor, guy sure is a jerk. Just when I thought I was getting better with the golden rule.

If your trying to say the citizens of nd and the college of und is abandoning the pine ridge tribe of sd I think you should do a little more home work. Are they even tied to the tribes that und fighting sioux honors.....I don't know. Seems like und offers a whole ton of education and $$$ to many of the states tribes. As far as my commnt about making money,again the school should be the one making the $$$.

Maybe bill clinton can build the pine ridge res another 50 homes to trash. Or was it und that trashed them, I can't remember.

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Oh boy, how did politics get on a hockey forum?

This fight is now with the Spirit lake nation and the NCAA. UND has came out and said there ready to retire the name. The Spirit lake nation WANTS to keep the name. This will be the final fight for the name. I think some occasinal followers still think UND is fighting to keep the name that isn't the case anymore.

I also disagree with you Scott (aka please become a sponsor guy)too funny. I think if UND makes money on the logo a percentage should probably go to the res. I think thats fair IMO. I not gonna come out and call you a jerk because I disagree with you grin.

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But I am a jerk, come on.

Beer grandma, what's gonna go next. Are they no longer gonna let students drink so much they pass out in the stands.

Sounds like people are getting upset with kelley up there. Its just a matter of time before the leash gets tightened further. The whole nickname fight brings too much bad publicity to und. They are under a close eye it seems and maybe that's not a good thing for und.

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Bad publicity? Look at politics today, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

As far as Pine Ridge, conditions there have been deplorable for generations. I've known this fact for decades. I can assure you, Mr. "PBS Guy," that UND has done far more for Natives that you and just about any other public institution in the country.

And now that you know about the conditions on Pine Ridge, what will you do? Troll a few more nickname issue boards and post your disgust? How about you stand up and do something for those people. I'm sure BIA would like to have some more funds to work with or volunteers bringing aid to the res.

Don't worry your anger and disgust will pass and the rose will soon return to your glasses. In the mean time please stick to the issue of this topic, which is the service or disservice the NCAA may or may not be providing to UND, college athletics, and the honor and memory of the Spirit Lake Tribe.

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I think the key point to this whole thing is that there are a bunch of people running around claiming to know that something (UND logo/nickname) is offensive to some, but they seem to have neglected to consult those who are supposedly offended. It would seem that the assumption that the logo/nickname is offensive is a faulty assumption.

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I need to get the full "Pine Ridge" story. Will have to google it later when I'm a little more motivated.

The only Jerk I know Scott is Steve Martin. Great movie, highly recommend it smile. So I guess your not in bad company.

Jarrod you nailed it. NCAA didn't have there ducks in a row or should I say North Dakota school board...either way doesn't matter. If This thing goes all the way to the supreme court I would bet money they will side with Spirit Lake. The only question is, will this fight go that far.

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The jerk is great movie, what cause Im a gopher fan I dont know good movies.

Pine Ridge sucks, my brother was an ATF agent serving it. Lots of crazy stories.

Anyways, until there is an update on this nickname nonsense Im avoiding this one. No horse in this race anyway.

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It all starts with a troll crazy. Its up to everybody else to keep it on topic.

Even on topic... it Maybe should be in crazy town. It doesn't have a whole lot to do with hockey anymore even if its about the school that everybody thinks powerhouse college hockey program smilegrin

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  • 2 weeks later...

Any Sioux person anywhere could consider themselves impacted by the use of the nickname, and S.D. has far more Sioux people/reservations than N.D.

The NCAA was thinking practically when it limited the necessary permissions to the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock reservations, since they are the only two Lakota/Dakota reservations in the state in which UND exists.

It's not news that poverty has been rampant on many, many Indian reservations for a long time in our country, not just one or two in South Dakota. It was that way long before I attended UND in the 80s (Indian Studies/English major), and it's only really improved on reservations where casinos and other businesses have flourished. It is a very complex and longstanding issue, one not really suited to quick treatment by such sensationalistic entities as 20/20.

Poverty and injustice on Pine Ridge have nothing to do with the fight to keep the Sioux nickname at UND.

BTW, Spirit Lake has just formally filed its lawsuit. Dakota/Sioux people fighting to keep the nickname, not white people.

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Fightin' Telephone Poles, Fightin' Migratory Waterfowl, Fightin' Oil Gushers, Fightin' Flood Waters, Fightin' over shooting bucks from the road...so many to choose from. laugh

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, Fightin' over shooting bucks from the road...so many to choose from. laugh

I like to call that the "60 MPH sneak" grin

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Any Sioux person anywhere could consider themselves impacted by the use of the nickname, and S.D. has far more Sioux people/reservations than N.D.

As much as I heard about the logo for the past decade. I can't remember ever hearing standing rock or any other res any where else commenting on this controversy. Its always been a group on campus against it and thats been the only opposition that I read about.

With this new lawsuit that happen yesterday I wonder what court does this go to? Attach to that lawsuit I heard on the news that the Spirit lake wants 10 million for legal fees!

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As much as I heard about the logo for the past decade. I can't remember ever hearing standing rock or any other res any where else commenting on this controversy. Its always been a group on campus against it and thats been the only opposition that I read about.

With this new lawsuit that happen yesterday I wonder what court does this go to? Attach to that lawsuit I heard on the news that the Spirit lake wants 10 million for legal fees!

Yeah, that was my first and most consistent exposure to the issue as well, a group of students/faculty (mostly white but a few Indian) who were pushing the issue on campus.

In my experience, they brought it up in the first place. I never heard anything about any grassroots reservation groundswell. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. I knew those folks pretty well, since most were in the Indian Studies and English departments. Indian Studies majors/faculty were pretty heavily involved in social justice at the time, as well, so it was an issue that resonated with many of the white and Indian students/faculty.

In the early years, I was for dropping the nickname/logo, but my thinking evolved over time. It's been nearly 30 years since I first heard the issue discussed on campus. Now I'm in favor of keeping it, but acknowledge that my desire as a UND alum matters very little compared with the desires of both the tribes in question.

There are Lakota/Dakota people on both N.D. reservations who like the nickname/mascot and those who don't. We know how overwhelmingly the Spirit Lake Tribe voted for it, and a poll showed the same level of support among the people of Standing Rock, but the tribal chairman blocked a referendum. And of course there was the 1969 ceremony from Standing Rock elders granting UND use of the Sioux nickname and logo forever.

So in my mind, both tribes have spoken in favor of UND keeping the nickname/logo, and I see that as the bottom line. White folks fighting on Indians' behalfs for something that doesn't offend most Indian people is a form of arrogance that I've come to find repugnant. I used to think in my 20s that I was fighting for justice for those who couldn't/wouldn't themselves take up the fight. I've only over the last few years come to realize there was no nickname/logo fight to take up in the first place. There certainly are social/racial injustices worth fighting, but the Sioux nickname/logo issue was never one of them.

The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in Fargo, and in the names of both N.D. Lakota/Dakota reservations. It cites the overwhelming support for the nickname among the voters of Spirit Lake, and the 1969 Standing Rock ceremony.

Apparently, the court isn't going to schedule hearing the lawsuit until 2013, so there'll be plenty of time to continue to talk this thing into the ground on Internet forums like this one. gringringrin

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  • 2 weeks later...

Got my email from the school that the fight is done. Thought I heard a blurb on scratchy am out here chasing ducks in nodak that said no new name for a couple years per same legisislative decree. Mashing on the like button.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So now that its over again, maybe. How long do you guys think it will take for the fans to stop using the sioux name and forget about their old mascot. when the mn highschool lost all their native american mascots it lingered fo awhile, but now no body cares. How long do you think it will linger in gf. 4 yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs.

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In the Ralph it'll linger forever. I was amazed at all of the Sioux logos that were imbedded in that building when I visited 4 or 5 years ago.

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]So now that its over again, maybe. How long do you guys think it will take for the fans to stop using the sioux name and forget about their old mascot. when the mn highschool lost all their native american mascots it lingered fo awhile, but now no body cares. How long do you think it will linger in gf. 4 yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs.

Good question, I think it will have a lot more staying power than a high school team but I'm not sure it will last forever. Might take 20-40 years but I think it will slowly fade.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The Latest...

Fighting Sioux nickname supporters at the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe responded angrily today to remarks Wednesday by UND President Robert Kelley and Grant Shaft, president of the State Board of Higher Education, who advocate repeal of the state law ordering UND to retain the nickname.

Kelley said the ongoing controversy threatens UND’s entry into the Big Sky Conference and problems in future athletic scheduling and recruitment, and is damaging the university’s national reputation.

That's interesting considering that UND has signed contracts dated Oct 29th, 2010 which made them a core member of the Big Sky Conference...

Something stinks in Grand Forks.

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There's always been suspicion about the sudden change of hart by UND. The real news in that article is the Big Sky conference playing along. Is it really a fact that the Big Sky really submitted a statement that was prepared by UND? I don't know if I believe that. There's alot of people that has to go along with UND's lie if what this article says is true. This rises some question. Is there members in the state house and senate who are aware of what UND's intention. Does the Spirit Lake nation know that they are being used as puppets.

I have relatives who are NDSU alum who would love for all this to be true. I won't go there LIMT;) NCAA has the final say. They can make life extremly difficult for UND and the Big Sky if any of this is true. Big Sky has too much to lose. I just don't believe any of it.

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What is ND, Notre Dame.

Cool Jersey, is that the womens, mens or both maybe. I just know I heard that only the womens Jerseys were ready to go.

I also heard that the mens team will be wearing their Sioux jerseys through the season.

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