2011 Smelt Run

[Jarrid Houston]

I have never done this but from what I have heard, is that it used to be better success back in the old day'. Any truth to that? I know that smelt population is good, but it sounds like there was a time when it was better. Plus, I think more and more people do it..? G'd luck!

[reinhard1]

yes back in the old days it was much better. we used to go to the lester and the river was just loaded. you could just about use your hands at times but that would have been a long night. i think the reason that there were more smelt back then is there were lampreys in the lake and they devistated the fish population, thus eliminating the predators. after the lampreys were controled and the lake trout and salmon populations grew along with other predators the typical massive runs were a thing of the past. that's my take on it, and i have read some articles to that effect as well. good luck.

[upnorth]

The smelt runs started to dwindle about the time they started planting King Salmon. Lets face it they are a top of the line predator and eat like pigs to get to the size they do in such a short period of time.

[reinhard1]

you are right about the Kings but there are not as many as there used to be. lake trout have made a huge comeback from being devistated by lampreys. along with them we have cohos loopers and a few kings and browns. we used to have a great run of browns years back as well. the french and babtism were two of the top streams for those. now barely a trickle. too bad. good luck.

[upnorth]

They may start coming on a bit stronger without the planting of the kings, but with all the other fish out there preying on them we will never see the runs like we did in the 60s and 70s. I remember being about 10 and not even being able to lift the dip net out of the water cuz it was so full of the little buggers.

[reinhard1]

we used to go with our parents up the shore in the day time also when the creeks and rivers were clear. my brother and i would team up. we could see a definate black school of smelt in the tail end in a small pool and i would chase them up to my brother waiting with a dip net at the head of the pool near the rapids comming in. memories. good luck.

[fish_4_fun]

so all of the smelt fans, do you want the smelt to bounce back of not. why and why not. i ask this because it is a situation where I love to come up there every spring, but they harm are native fish.

whats your opinion.

[lispeej]

I'm thinking of maybe coming up this fri/sat to try my luck.

[wayne123]

LoadMaster - Please email me at [email protected] - Thanks

[Lhmoobvaj]

I think right now our current smelt to predatorial fish is pretty balanced. Yes, I would prefer more smelt but like every healthy ecosystem, you need balance.

Any recent smelt update??? This Thursday when I head out I'll keep everyone posted

[Lhmoobvaj]

Park Point report last night: nothing. Not even a smelt.

[MidCoast]

Where do people usually Smelt at in Ashland?

[MichaelSwan]

Public beach area, below the park. The rocks are spaced perfectly for a 25' seine netting w. firepits. This is just to the left (west) of the pier. People also drop the umbrella style nets off the pier.

[reinhard1]

to me the lower runs of smelt is a good thing. you can still get plenty for food but the good think is by a lower run you know there are more predators out there. salmon, lake trout, and rainbows [ loopers and steelhead ]. also walley's roam the south shore and some big pike roam as well. good luck.

[leech~~]

so all of the smelt fans, do you want the smelt to bounce back of not. why and why not. i ask this because it is a situation where I love to come up there every spring, but they harm are native fish.

whats your opinion.

I asked one of the Fishery guys at the French Hatchery about the Smelt a few years ago and why they don't close the season for a year or so for them to come back. He said that they are a non-native species that they do not manage and would like to get rid of out of LS. I said but don't they provide food for all the fish like Lake Trout. He said yes, but when the Smelt are gone the fish will just revert to eating some of the native forage that is in the lake. I said, huum, seems to me that if the Smelt are declining don't you think that the native forage is declining as well? I said, do you think some day the fish are really just going to smack their lips and say. Yuum that was good, now that the Smelt are gone lets go eat something else? He just stared at me for a few seconds and said, well they are non-native and shouldn't be in the lake!

[Lhmoobvaj]

Reports from Ashland were very good last night. That's a positive sign for us. It shouldn't be long before we start seeing some action on the MN shores.

[JBMasterAngler]

As the smelt population began to decline, the native herring (cisco) began to return. And I do believe they have replaced smelt as the dominant forage fish...which of course is better for the natural cycle of the lake.

[fish_4_fun]

so whats so bad about having smelt as a forage in lake superior, its like having shiners in lake millacs for the walleyes, and fat heads in ceder lake for walleyes. nothing bad is happening to the walleyes, so nothing bad is happening to the lake trout or the salmon in lake superior. there are numerouse lakes in mn that have ciscoes and tullibees. so why would we want to get rid of this very cool, great tasting smelt fish?

I think we should not try to get rid of the smelt. but thats just my oppinion. and I dont have any scientific evidence to back my opinion.

what are your thoughts.

[reinhard1]

smelt and ciscos compete for the same food in general. the more smelt the less ciscos. grindstone lake used to have ciscos until the smelt took over and now it's just smelt. but have no fear, you can still get plenty of smelt for the table. ciscos are great smoked as well even better, but i have never heard of anyone deepfrying them like smelt. good luck.

[leech~~]

As the smelt population began to decline, the native herring (cisco) began to return.

Maybe you have the answer that the fishery guy did not? How does one forage fish just come back, but the other not? If one is declining they both may increase or decline together. Again, if the fish are eating one they are eating the other as well. I don't think they just change menus one day! Are the Cisco just hiding out some where until the Smelt leave?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

You gotta think lower in the food chain. The Ciscos and Smelt eat the zooplankton. Zooplankton eat algae(phytoplankton). Lake Superior is an Oligiotrophic lake, which means it has minimal production of phytoplankton, hence, minimal production of zooplankton. (this is a big reason the salmon are not making it, along with the lake trout rebound.... not enough food for the gluttonous salmon).

Back when the predator fish were over fished and crippled because of the lamprey, the smelt that were introduced, as with any invasive species, exploded and dominate the whole ecosystem. This killed off the cisco population and with the lakers near extirpiration, the next invasives, ie.salmon, gorged. Once the lakers rebounded they help bring about a somewhat balanced ecosystem. With the smelt numbers going down the ciscos were able to then rebound some, but are far from where they should be and will never get that way unless the smelt suddenly die.

The smelt numbers are what they are. The lake is somewhat in a balance right now and it'll be impossible to wipe out the smelt numbers. The DNR is managing Lake Superior to bring it back to it's natural state, as they should IMO, and as best they can realistically.

They will never manage to improve smelt populations. The base of the food chain ties the whole food web together.

Enjoy what is there, as far as smelt go. It's probably never going to get much better (unless the predator populations crash from VHS or something) and it probably won't get much worse. It'll be cyclical like all populations over time.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Maybe you have the answer that the fishery guy did not? How does one forage fish just come back, but the other not? If one is declining they both may increase or decline together.

[spivak]

Bruledrifter--good answer. I've found most of my Lake Superior fisheries questions get answered when I take the time to read The Lake Superior Fisheries Management Plan you can find on the DNR website (I'm never quite sure if I can post such a link or not). They discuss the smelt issue in depth and it bears out what Bruledrifter summed up. It's a long document, but important to read.

[fish_4_fun]

So, those of you who live up there in duluth, do you guys see anybody trying the lester recently. sounds like its going to be a busy weekend coming up.

[ajshore]

I stop by the lester 9 30ish . There was nobody around.

[live4chrome]

the water is still way to cold on the North shore rivers for the smelt to run.

[leech~~]

They both occupy different niches in the ecosystem, and they compete for the same forage. One declines the other increases. Basic Biology.

Well, basically I think you just brought up my same reasoning why both decline or increase at the same rate.

1) They may occupy different niches.

But

2) They both have the same predators.

And

3) They both compete for the same forage.

So

4) If something eats the same thing & gets eaten by the same things. It stands to reason that they may increase or decrease at the same rate.

Basic Biology!

[Jim Almquist]

Bruledrifter--good answer. I've found most of my Lake Superior fisheries questions get answered when I take the time to read The Lake Superior Fisheries Management Plan you can find on the DNR website (I'm never quite sure if I can post such a link or not). They discuss the smelt issue in depth and it bears out what Bruledrifter summed up. It's a long document, but important to read.

spivak if it is a government website you can go a head and post it. If it is a private website with advertising do not.

[reinhard1]

grindstone lake in central minnesota had ciscos originaly. somehow smelt were introduced. many theories on how they got there. smelt and ciscos compete for the same food in general. the smelt won, and now all the predators are getting fat and happy on smelt. i think in superior lamprey's played a large part in lowering the population of predators. lake trout eat smelt along with ciscos. whatever is available at the time in my opinion. now with the lampreys largly controled there are less of ciscos and smelt. superior is part of a huge system, and i cant compare it to any other system. smelt are very prolific and will ususaly win out if it's a contest between ciscos and smelt. good luck.

[fish_4_fun]

i know this is off topic but, since we are talking about species in superior i just had to ask. how do you control lamprey?