Lake Vermilion Fishing Q&A

[iapete]

Ok, while I'm at it, how and where would you fish for pike on the west end the first week of July?

[Jayber]

Headin' to Vermillion for the first time end of this month. Neighbors hooked us up with a house boat rental for 4 days. Sounds like a fun lake to fish. I'm more of a Bass man. Sounds like the west side is the place to start. Any other tips anyone could suggest? How have they been biting lately? Wouldn't mind hooking on to a Musky either. Never caught one of those, but there's always a first time.

[guideman]

Jayber,

There really isn't any need to run all the way to the west end from where the houseboats are.(about 20 miles). There are planty of Bass on the east end. Large and Smallmouth bass are plentifull if you know where to look for them. The Smallies are eveywhere and you don't need to be an expert to locate them. Large mouth can be found in Pike bay, Stuntz bay, Greenwood bay, many areas north of Pine island, Cable bay, Bystrom bay and a few without names. If you do go west just head for the Wakemup narrows area, there are bass in all of those small bays and inlets.

"Ace"

[james_walleye]

Hey Ace have the smallies started in yet? We will be up the first weekend of August. I'm hoping to get my son some action while I'm tossing the glittertails I got.

[Jayber]

Thanks for the reply and insights on where to look, Guideman! And you're right, we'll be heading out from the East end, but hope span most of the lake before our trip is done. Never really fished SM before. Will have to do some studying before our departure.

Could someone report back on the water temps that they're seeing?

[guideman]

Hey everybody,

Well here we are again, it's winter in the north country and I have more time on my hands than I know what to do with. If there is something you can't find on this thread, please don't hesitate to ask. If you need info on the ice fishing opportunities on Vermilion. Go out and pick up the latest issue of "Ice fishing" magazine. There is an article in there that Cliff and I contributed to, that covers a great deal of information regarding ice fishing for all species on Lake Vermilion.

Happy Holidays!

"Ace"

[Chode2235]

Ace, thanks for resurrecting this thread, and your time answering these questions.

I'll ask an ice fishing question, and tie it into your great article: Lake Vermilion has a reputation as being one of the premiere multi-species fisheries in MN, and is one of the top destinations for summer fishing and family trips.

That being said, it doesn't seem like Big V gets the love it deserves for ice fishing. Why do you think that is?

And as someone who loves fishing Vermilion but has never made a winter trip up, should I be changing my plans for one of my trips from one of the other big ice fishing lakes to Vermilion?

[034]

We might be returning to the lake in July after a 1 year sabatical, and I have 1 question...when the wind blows hard we have a hard time out on Big Bay rigging/jigging for walleyes(lack of boat control)

.. how about a wind sock or 2??? do they work? what accessories do we need with them? Any other suggestions? Thanks.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Drift socks are a tremendous asset for drift fishing! Especially when rigging and jigging!

Well worth your investment.

I use only one sock. Be sure to get at least one size bigger then the manufacturer recommends for your boat size.

Cliff

[guideman]

Vermilion can be a tough biute during the winter if you aren't familiar with the lake. The early ice bite was fantastic this year. It has slowed down since the holidays however that is pretty typical up here. We had a couple really good days this week. Wednesday we moved my shack and the bite has been much better except for Saturday. We had 4 fish in the box before 8am today with another couple of slot fish that we released. It may not cmpare with Lake of the Woods as far as numbers go but it's as good as many other winter destinations. We get a lot of big Walleyes during the ice season and we also catch a lot of jumbo Perch during the winter.

If you are willing to move around I think you can do very well most of the ice season. Most locals fish in the McKinley park area of Big bay. There are a few exceptions however you seldome see many shacks anywhere else. I don't fish for panfish durin g the ice season so I don't really know how good tht bite is during the winter. I do fish for Pike during the winter and we catch a lot of Big Pike in many areas of the lake. I guess it all depends on the individule anglers as to how good they think Vermilion is during the ice season. I have had some excellent winters over the years and some not so excellent. In my opinion it's just as good as Milac or Winny or Leech are during the winter, it just doesn't get the hype that they do. I can remember staring down a hole on Milacs for days without any action and hundreds of people go there every weekend to fish for Walleyes. We don't get those kinds of crowds up here and I like that.

"Ace"

[guideman]

I agree with Cliff on the driftsock. If you are going to fish big water it's a necessity to have one. I also like to fish into the wind when I'm rigging. It gives you much better control of your speed than drifting does. The speed of your presentation is so important, perhaps the most important thing when rigging for Walleyes.

"Ace"

[034]

Thanks Cliff and Ace for the drift sock advice.

[Fish Head]

I could use some help! I purchased a cabin near Moccasin Point last July. I've done a lot of fishing over the years, but prior to my purchase I have very little experience with Vermilion. I had a VERY DIFFICULT time with walleyes last year!!

I will admit that because it was my first year with the cabin, I was very busy and didn't fish a ton. I also spent at least as much time on Muskies as I did walleyes, but when I did fish for 'eyes, I couldn't believe how slow it was. I tried rigging and jigging mid lake humps... slow death, crawler harnesses and shad raps on shorelines...fishing neck down areas... bobbers... bla bla bla. SLOW. I'd love to get into some great smallies too, but never did (did'nt try much for smallies though).

I've spent most of the last 20 years fishing LOTW, Mille Lacs and Rainy. (by the way, I've been using drift socks for 20yrs on LOTW, and they work great!) I don't have the experience with Vermilion, but with some small variances, fishing is still fishing, right?

I obviously could use any advice from the seasoned Vermilion crew. Any advice going into next year would be greatly appreciated… Specifically opening day through the summer.

Thanks in advance. I love this thread.

[PSU]

FWIW Fish Head, I found last year to be the slowest fishing on Vermilion since we moved up from Pennsylvania in 1997 and started to visit Vermilion and now we are also cabin owners. Our place is on an island in in West Smart's Bay where Frazer Bay joins in and I usually fish the Frazer, Smart's Bay, Birch Narrows area. From what I have been told (and in speaking with others fisherman in the area) those locations were slow for many last year.... Iused to catch a limit a weekend off of our dock and caught two walleye all last year off the dock....again, my two cents....

[DaveSorensen]

The reports were varied on fishing success from people that came into the store. One thing seemed certain tho and that was there was a lot of forage available. The ice fishing this year certainly started off very well with fish in the 14-17 inche range and a lot of slot fish. So just keep working the areas and if you don't find them in one spot don't be afraid to move. Also you might consider hiring a guide for a day or a couple of days different times of the year. Even someone who owns a place on the lake can benefit from going out with Cliff or Casey two of the moderators on this forum. There is my 2 cents worth.

[Casey Sunsdahl]

Sounds like you did everything right... fishing is fishing and it was just a brutally difficult bite in July-Aug for walleyes. Too much baitfish! Short feeding windows was the biggest issue and you had to be on the right spot at the right time and work hard at it. Downrigger fishing was the best thing going this summer.

[delcecchi]

Whilst I am not in the same league as many on here, I have noticed that locations have changed over the last few years, and in some cases more than a few years. I am speaking of the west end in particular.

I have a few theories. They have no evidence to back them up.

1. Muskies and musky fishermen have caused sufficient disturbance to the force to cause walleye and northern to relocate to new locations.

2. It has been a long long time since a good old fashioned summer die off of ciscoes and whitefish so their population is high and fish are in open water suspended eating them.

3. The forage has changed in general, perhaps the water is cleaner than it used to be.

4. More capable fishermen with sophisticated equipment rather than guys in resort boats dragging anchors to find reefs have hit the obvious spots to the point the fish moved.

The spring and early summer of 2010 was especially weird. I didn't get a bite for like the first 6 weeks of the season. Not a northern or bass, not a walleye or even a perch or rock bass. Never saw the like.

[guideman]

While I will never agree that the Muskies have been a major invluence on the Walleye bite, they might affect thier location at times. Typically when you aren't finding Walleyes in places you used to catch them, it's got more to do with what used to bring them there. Baitfish or food in general is the most important reason why Walleyes spend any time in an area. No food, no Walleyes. I had a pretty normal year last season, primarily because during the summer I fish suspended Walleyes instead of looking for fish on structure. I do hit some reefs when I know there is a good bite going on, however trolling deep water areas over main lake flats is more my style. Even Walleyes that spend time on shallow reefs will suspend and typically, when you catch them on the reef one day and they are gone the next, they aren't usually that far away. Many times they will just move off the structure or move deeper, suspending at or near the thermalcline. The biggest mistake anglers make is getting stuck in a rut and repeating the same old same old presentations day after day, even when they aren't producing fish.

One of the most important things that I learned from tournament fishing was that no matter how slow the bite is, someone is always catching fish, somewhere. Most likely doing something totally different than you are. I know so many Walleye guys that always do the same thing, be it lindy rigging, or bottom bouncing whatever it may be. They just figure "Hey" the Walleyes just aren't bitting today. One of the things I hear the most when guiding for Walleyes is "I don't fish like that". Fish can't read, so they don't know what the guys at In-Fisherman are saying about where the fish are the second week of July. Walleyes always go where the food is.

Water temps, moon phases, wind direction and all that other stuff are just a small part of the Walleye equasion. Food is always the most important piece of the fish puzzle once the spawn is over. No forage, no food, no fish, it's as simple as that.

"Ace"

[delcecchi]

Then maybe my theories number 2 and 3 aren't that far off, at least on the west end. I have just noticed that things have changed. And to a degree it has coincided with the musky stocking. However correlation does not imply causation.

So you don't think that the presence of a Musky shuts down the walleye bite in the vicinity? I'm not sure how a guy would know that's what was happening anyway.

It is also notable that two or three years ago the reefs that formerly had walleye were full of bluegill. Nice ones.

[PSU]

Very good tips Ace and others. Ace, you described my fishing style (lazy, doing the same thing in the same place) to a tee!

Thanks again and next year I will work harder and smarter!

[guideman]

All of Minnesotas best Walleye lakes have Muskies in them. Leech, Cass, LOTW, Milacs, Vermilion, Winny and a few more. There are countless videos you can watch that show Muskies/Pike and Walleyes all roaming together on structure or in schools of baitfish. Similar to watching lions and Zebras on the plains of Africa.

The DNR has done studies on all the the lakes that were stocked for Muskies since the mid 80's. In all cases the other species of fish, especially Walleyes suffered no negative effects. In many cases the other species actually benifited from the introduction of Muskies into the system.

Muskies can not over populate a system. Even the heathiest lakes can only support a small population of apex preditors. Compared to the number of Walleyes in a heathly lake Muskies only make up a fraction of the overall fish population. As an example, there are far more Largemouth Bass on the west end than there are Muskies.

LM numbers have escalated on the west end over the last several years. I think they have had much more of an impact on the Walleye fishery on the west side than the Muskies ever will. I think if you go to the DNR's survey results from the last few years you'll see that the increase in the Largemouth bass numbers coinsides with some very poor Walleyes numbers in some recent year classes. That with some other factors is what, in my opinion has had a major impact on the west ends under the slot size Walleye numbers.

One thing to keep in mind is that nature will keep things in balance and rarely do you find a system that runs amuck on it's own. In most cases, Walleye numbers in natural Walleye lakes aren't affected by anything that lives under the water. The top preditors of Walleyes in Lake Vermilion live above the water. Over harvest and the disregard for spawning habitat, including shoreline degridation, polution and in general a lack of respect for the natural world, is what destroys fisheries. We need to move away from the harvest mentality and start to realize, that we as anglers are the ones that can, in a very short time, impact a fishery to the point that the entire ecosytem can be effected. So instead of looking for somebody else to blame for what happened. We need to look inside of ourselves and ask the big question. What is more important? Do we really need to fill our freezer with fish to provide ourselves with a short term validation of our fishing success? Or should the long term heath of our Minnesota fishies be our main concern.

Don't get me wrong, I like eating a Walleye dinner as much as the next guy. On the other hand I enjoy catching them even more. If I could never eat another Walleye in my life I'd make that adjustment. If I could never catch another Walleye in my life I'd be devestated. It all comes down to what is most important to you and for me, it's not even a contest. I'll take fishing over shorelunch anytime. JMHO.

"Ace"

[DaveSorensen]

Well said Ace! Whenver people mention to me how the muskies have influenced the walleyes. Ask yourself when was Walleye fishing considered great, when did people never have to worry about a tough bite. Pick any time and then ask yourself..are there more boats out there, are there bigger boats out there, do the people use electronics, depth finders gps rather than dragging an anchor to find a reef or positioning your boat so it lines up with the old dead pine tree the point of land and the red cabin which is the GPS system I used when I started fishing. I do think that people who used to catch fish off their dock and now they see a muskie might interpet that the muskie ate all the walleyes the reality is they are just keeping the walleyes and other prey away. Doesn't mean that there are fewer walleyes just means that the smarter walleyes aren't going to swim next to an area where a predator is lurking!

I think that the fisheries change and the fish adapt to that change as well, if there is less underwater weeds because of the crayfish snipping then there is less of a hiding place for fry and for baitfish so the walleyes and bass and other predators will move to where there is baitfish. Things change and those that adapt will change with them.

I am amazed though how few people fish bass on this lake, it is a world class fishery that largely goes untapped. I know walleye is king but I would think that the people who chase bass would pound this lake!

[guideman]

Thanks Dave,

I probably do more Bass guiding than most of the other local guides, as most of them are Walleyes only guides. I also enjoy fishing for Bass(Especially Smallies) whenever I can. Last year I did about 30 dates for Bass of both species and only on very rare occasions did we ever see another boat fishing my favorite bass locations. Even in the spring when it's possible to catch 50 or 60 Smallmouth a day, you seldome see anyone that is actually targeting Smallmouth bass. Vermilion is trully a "World Class" Smallmouth destination and it's Largemouth fishing is as good as many of the well known LM destinations in Minnesota. I think if the local resorts put more effort into publisizing what an excellent Bass fishing destination the Big V is, that might change.

The first Minnesota Bass Expo will be taking place this year at the National sports center in Blaine. I'll have a booth at the show, however I don't think the resort association has any plans to attend. I also doubt that any resorts will be represented at the show. I hope I'm wrong, however I haven't seen any of them on the list of partisapants. Bass fishing has grown by leaps and bounds in the last several years and if the local resorts would jump on that bandwagon it just might make a huge difference to their bottom line. It took a long time for the resorts to embrace the Muskie fishing public before they started showing photos of big Muskies on their websites. I know that Walleyes are still King, however in bad times you'd think that a smart resort owner would try to promote all of the fishing oppotuities that Lake Vermilion has to offer. I have regulars that come from all over the country to fish for Smallmouth bass and they all rave about both the size and the numbers compared to anywhere else they have been.

Man I can't wait for open water and thatb great topwater bass action!!!

"Ace"

[trolloni]

Vermillion has always been a bass mecca, large, and mainly smallmouth.i can remember back to 80s when Grant at Muskego promoted the bass fishing as world class ,even had in fisherman come up to help in that venture .Then they introduced the musky and we had decent fishing for about 10 years for em till word got out ,now the musky boats on the lake are 10=1 compared to others, it makes for real good bassin! walleyes are the no 1 money fish for the guides .One thing i cannot and will not ever believe is that the largemouth is harder on the walleyes than musky are, especially after 2 hawgs came in and plucked off 2 mid 20 inch walleyes off my line this past fall !!

[james_walleye]

Ace hit it. Every one of the best musky lakes in the state are fabulous walleye fisheries as well. If muskys had any impact on walleyes this wouldn't be the case.

[delcecchi]

Ace, I was rereading my post and it sounds more argumentative than I intended. I sure don't know what is happening or pretend to, and was making up some hypothesizes about what was going on.

Always something strange happening to think about.

Again, not intending any disrespect.

[guideman]

No problem Del,

Your opinions are just as valuable as any one elses. We have all had a Muskie or big Pike hit a Walleye on occasion. They just can't resist when they see that fish struggling at the end of your line, it's an easy meal. Largemouth spend most of their time in shallow cover, where most juvenile Walleyes spend their time trying to avoid preditors. A 2 or 3 inch Walleye isn't much of a meal for a 4ft Muskie but for a Largemouth bass, it's just what they are looking for. You may never have a 4 pound Largemouth blast your 14 inch Walleye, however they have already done their damage when the Walleyes were just a few inches long.Especially on the west end where so many Walleyes spend a majority of their time in the weeds. Those big Bass have to eat something, Bluegills are a traditional forage for LM however a nice tasty 4 inch Walleye would also be on the menu. Despite what you may think,a Walleye just isn't that high on the menu for Muskies. They will eat them, however Muskies will typically avoid fish with a spinny dorsal fin. Both the MDNR and the WDNR have done studies on what Muskies do eat. Even in systems with very high Walleye numbers, they make up less than 1% of a Muskies diet. Muskies prefer bait like White Suckers, Cisco's and Whitefish over Walleyes. For that matter they will eat Northern Pike in greater numbers than Walleyes. Pike have a soft dorsal and they slide right down the gullit. I catch a lot of Muskies on Pike imitations and I rarely catch Muskies on Walleye imitations. I even use some baits with the rear hooks painted white to look like a Walleye and the Pike colored lures always out fish them.

"Ace"

[Vermilion_figure_8]

If you look at arguably some of the "better" Walleye lakes in the state like, Mille Lacs, Cass, Leech, and Vermilion, they all have Muskies in their waters

[delcecchi]

I wasn't trying to say that muskies eat all the walleye. I wonder if a musky makes the walleye nervous. Maybe the walleye don't know that the musky really doesn't want to eat them.

Likewise I wonder if the presence of musky affects pike location. But I wonder about a lot of stuff.

[trolloni]

Wow ace thanks for clearing that up ,i kinda thought my musky guide was b.sing me when he told me walleye was his go to color !!