Lake Vermilion Fishing Q&A

[Steve Foss]

Boards over deep basins where the target fish tend to be bottom oriented? I'm interested to hear Terry's perspective.

[alumacraft3]

Im interested in hearing how its done also. If its lead core or down riggers or some other way? I troll cranks alot but have never trolled in water any deeper than 30 ft and would love to try it this summer.

[guideman]

Hey Guys,

Most of the time I am just long lining unless I'm fishing deeper than 30ft. Then I will go to leadcore or even a snapweight. I use boards when trolling in shallow water,(15ft or less) or when I get to run more than two lines. With all the great deep running cranks we have now, I don't use leadcore as much as I used to. Most of the best flats in the main basin are less than 30ft except for a few that go to 35 or so. Big flats are much easier to troll than big structures are, because you don't have to be as precise.

That is where the downriggers come in to play, as they are more accurate around big mainlake structures. I typically run a line just above the bottom and one about 5ft above that. If there is bait high up in the water colom, Walleyes will be spread out from top to bottom. Typically, if you can run a bait withing 2 ft of the bottom you will get bit. Active Walleyes will come up to hit a bait running above their heads. If you have downriggers by all means use them, however It isn't always necessary. Many of the places I troll are no more than 20/22ft deep and there are a lot of baits that will run that deep.

You can also go to braided line to get down deeper, however I like to use 10lb xt.

Get a trolling book for all the new baits, it will save you a whole lot of time experimenting to find how deep they run. Some days will be better than others and it does take some time to develope your best trolling runs. It is a great way to fish during those hot calm summer days when nothing is going on on the reefs. The fish that were there yesterday feeding up on top are still there, they just moved off and are most likely suspending near that structure somewhere. Line counters are a must have if you want to be consistent catching fish. Believe me there are more places to troll open water than most people think, from east to west. I use a number of different baits including Shad raps, risto raps, reef runners, magnum walley divers, thundersticks and a few others. I have a few favorite colors, but if I told you what they were, I'd have to kill you.

"Ace"

[james_walleye]

With a wife that likes to read in the boat, and 2 kids who like to catch fish but not hold a rod, I can see the linecounters and planer boards getting some workouts. I agree with using 10 pound trilene and the tolling guide. Makes everything pretty easy. Including the snapweight. Can't wait to try it up there. I had great success with the system last year. Thanks for the info. I know you said people do this all summer, but when would you recommend giving it a whirl? Is mid to late June to early for a consistent bite?

[alumacraft3]

What are some good deep diving baits (around 30ft). I have a few cabelas brand cranks that the label says they will dive 30ft but what are some others that dive that deep. The more simple it is the better. I want to avoid lead core and down riggers if at all possible. I love trolling rapalas jointed shad rap but I know they dont dive over about 15ft.

[james_walleye]

With a snap weight you can get that shad to 20 feet.....

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Reef Runners will dive that deep. A few of the large lipped Shad Raps will get close to that depth long lining them.

Cliff

[guideman]

A number 9 shadrap will run to 20ft, 185ft back on 10lb mono. There are a number of baits that will run 20ft plus. Most are larger than what you use tolling along the breaks in shallow water. You can also use in-line weights, snap weights and even dipsey divers to get shallower running baits down to where you need them. The main reason for leadcore is that you can be more consistent running a specific depth range. I may use lead core in shallow water when I need to put that bait at a specific depth and keep it there. Don't be afraid to use big baits for Walleyes.

Magnum Wally divers, magnum Tail dancers, # 10 Risto raps and #9 & #10 Reef runners and thundersticks have caught me a lot of Walleyes over the years. I also use down deep Husky jerks, deep bomber long "A"s and some others.

You can catch open basin Walleye all season long, however the best fishing comes once the thermalcline sets up. That is where the Walleyes will suspend most of the time. Either at or just above or below the cold water line. It's the same for the baitfish. They will come up higher during the day and move down again as the sun moves lower in the sky. Like any kind of fishing, bait is the key element. They will not stay if there isn't anything to eat. Some areas can be very hot for a number of days and then zip...If you are marking baitfish on your sonar, there are no doubt going to be Walleyes feeding on them. Young of the year Whitefish, Ciscos and Perch are usually what you are looking for. Keep that in mind when you are selecting a color pattern for your baits.

Speed is also a major issue when trolling the open basin. Sometimes they will take a bait that is going 3mph. Other times 1.5mph is more their speed. Often times I will use my bowmout when they aren't willing to chase. You guys running Verados can dail your speed right on the big motor. A very handy feature to have if you do a lot of trolling. A good place to start is between 1.5 and 2mph. I have however

caught walleyes going as fast as 3.5mph, it just depends on how active they are at that particular time. Deeper fish are less likely to be willing to chase as much as fish in say 15 to 25ft. Ofcource like any presentation, nothing is writen in stone, be creative and keep an open mind, whenever you are fishing.

"Troll baby troll".

"Ace"

[delcecchi]

I read a chapter in the book "fishing minnesota" by grant hughes of muskego point in which he says, at least about the west end, that Vermilion really doesn't have a thermocline due to the topography and water movement keeping things pretty well mixed.

Do you agree? Is this trolling another of those eastern things? Or would it work on the west end?

[LunkerBaitCo]

Del

Where can I get that book? I used to know Grant and Judy pretty well back when they ran the resort...stayed there several times before buying my own place. He was a wealth of information!

[alumacraft3]

Do you use your sonar unit to find the thermocline or do you use a separate unit? I see cabelas has a clinefinder thats suppose to be accurate within 0.5 degrees. By the way thanks for all the info your are giving out. Im pretty new to trolling so its nice to get some advice from someone with alot more experience than I have.

[delcecchi]

Del

Where can I get that book? I used to know Grant and Judy pretty well back when they ran the resort...stayed there several times before buying my own place. He was a wealth of information!

It is available used through amazon. I just searched books for fishing minnesota and it was number 13 on the results. Author is Bob Berg, there are several both used and "collectable"

[guideman]

Hey Del,

It's true that vermiliom is not you typical lake when it comes to stratification. The numerous small bays do not indeed have a thermalcline. The main basin however does have a thermalcline and that is afterall, what we are talking about, trolling in the main basin areas. Niles bay, Head of the Lakes and Wakemup bay will get a thermalcline during the summer. Fraser bay, Big bay and any other open basin deeper than 30ft, will typically have a thermalcline. If there were no cold water stratification, there would be no fall turnover either. You can see the colder dencer water on your electronics. Typically it's at about 26 to 28ft, however the mid summer water tempuratures can have an effect on the depth of the cold water line. According the the Minnesota hydrologist that did a contamination examination on Vermilion a few years ago. The west end takes years to flush it's self due to the lack of incoming water on the west end. I would think that that would make it easier for the lake to stratify not harder. JMHO.

"Ace"

[Sorgy]

If you look at a hard copy of the Lakemaster map and step back you will notice several things(color/shading areas). 1) Head o Lakes Bay has the thermocline that sets up the most consistant. When water temps are high for a prolonged period on there is a significant die off of tulibees and whitefish mainly on Head O Lakes Bay. There will be some die off on Wakemup but that is mixed or turned more by wind and current action mixing the Oxygen up better on Wakemup than Head O Lakes Bays. 2) That Head O Lakes Bay is fairly small surface wise but the shorelines drop quickly into deeper water.

I am only familiar with the West end so I cannot comment on the other areas of the lake.

Is the Ice off yet? Hurry Hurry Hurry

Steve

[KidMoe]

Are tullibee's mostly only caught in the winter time? Or is there a technique to finding and catching them during open water? Is it not that anybody really targets them up there since the fishing is so good for every other species?

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Kid,

I do not think that anyone really targets Tulibees during the summer.

I used to catch a lot of them with a fly rod during the mayfly hatches when I was a kid! Lots of fun and I really never knew what would hit the fly because almost every fish in the lake feeds on mayflies when they are in a full scale hatch!

A spinning rod with a casting bubble float and a fly or small popper works great also!

Cliff

[Muskiebait]

A new question for the Q&A experts out there, is Vermillion fairly well marked for navigation by somebody new to the lake....most hazards marked??

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Vermilion is very well marked.

Cliff

[Esox_Magnum]

Well marked yes, but gets dark, dark, dark when the skys get black at night. Those islands and bouys are hard to spot in those conditions. Go slow and always be on the lookout and trust your GPS and instincts. Can't wait till August and be back on the lake...

[guideman]

Just make sure to give all the markers a wide birth and don't run to close to shore, especially islands out in the main lake. Don't run between islands or between a point and an island unless you know it's Ok. There are unmarked rocks that may come up just below the surface in 8 or 10ft along the shoreline in some places. The new chips are very accurate but always keep a good look at whats ahead of you.

"Ace"

[jkrash]

It's true most the hazards are well marked, and common sense goes a long way.

A gps is a plus but DON'T rely on your GPS after dark for navigating, their are a number of small islands (east & west)that will not show up on your gps, a few anglers have found this out the hard way.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

I agree with Ace! A little common sense goes a long way!

I do not agree about trusting your GPS though! NEVER totally trust it!

There were 3 very bad accidents a couple of years ago because the boat operators were running at night and relied totally on their GPS's.

Cliff

[KidMoe]

Thanks Cliff! Just thinking ahead to my trip up there in 38 days! I hope to make a game of seeing how many species we can catch! my guess is 2-3 but I'm hoping for more!

[delcecchi]

I can't imagine running at high speed in the dark using only a gps. I only drive on plane in the dark in places I am extremely familiar with, and when I can see enough lights and stuff to know exactly where I am.

And double that caution if anywhere near shore or an island.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

I can't imagine running at high speed in the dark using only a gps. I only drive on plane in the dark in places I am extremely familiar with, and when I can see enough lights and stuff to know exactly where I am.

And double that caution if anywhere near shore or an island.

Exactly, Del!

A very good example to follow!

Also be sure to always have your lights on at all times after dark! I have almost run over a few dumb-a$$es out there that anchor and refuse to turn their lights on because someone might find their "secret" spot!

Cliff

[djungle]

Hey coming up to V for the first time on June 11th. I was hoping you could tell me how crowded it gets this time of year? Also I just picked up my first Musky rod/reel and am excited to figure out how to land one of those bad boys. I picked up some Baby Girls, a Show Girl, and a 9" Bull Dawg. I have been dreaming nightly about landing my first musky. I guess I am hoping you could give me some advise on lures and sure fire locations or landmarks on the map?

Thanks

[Capt. Quicksteel]

It's never too crowded up here if you are willing to move around and try spots. Get some decent relase tools, that is pliers, hook cutter, jaw spreader and net. Then take your bucktails and start casting to every bouy, rock pile and saddle you can find heading out from wherever you're staying. If you can find good green cabbage weeds, even better, especially if they are around rocks. That's easier to find on the west end. There's no magic lure or spot. There are lots of tricks but the main thing is to put your lure in front of as many hungry muskies as you can and one will bite. Keep your eyes open and if you have a follow come back and work that fish again later. If you're staying at a resort ask them for more information and you'll run out of time before you run out of spots and tactics.....good luck.

[guideman]

Hey d,

Like was mentioned, don't forget to get all the release tools before you go Muskie fishing. If you only plan on doing it a little and you don't want to spend the money, borrow them from someone. The long pliers, a "Muskie net", a jaw spreader and a hook cutter are just as important as any bait or rod for properly handling a Muskie and following that with a successful release.

As for where to go and what to do, cast until your arms fall off!

There are more spots than you can fish in a lifetime much less a weeks vacation. I would concentrate on one area and fish all the best looking stuff hard. Bucktails are as good as anything during that time of the summer, but pick up a topwater or two and don't be affraid to throw them at anytime. There is an old saying in the Muskie world that, Muskies are where you find them. That statement is very true and they won't always be on those "Classic Muskie spots" that everybody likes to hit. Many of the obvious spots get pounded by everybody that drives by. Look for the good spots that most anglers don't stop for, it can pay off big time. I get a lot of clients that after catching a fish, tell me wow I would have never fished this spot on my own. The Muskies are eveywhere and you don't need to fly all over the lake to catch something that may be a couple hundred yards off of your dock.

Good Luck!

"Ace"

[delcecchi]

The Muskies are eveywhere and you don't need to fly all over the lake to catch something that may be a couple hundred yards off of your dock.

Good Luck!

"Ace"

Trouble is there are usually about 5 boats a couple hundred yards off my dock.

But they are fun to watch.

[Esox_Magnum]

Wheres your dock del, hate to see you be lonely Personaly the week I'm there every year I don't see all this pressure, fact many nights have had Wakeumup all to myself...