Deer Idea

[pulleye16]

And whom ever would like to get rid of party hunting needs to either A) Find a party to hunt with, or find a NEW party to hunt with. We have so much fun hunting together we would all start hunting WI just to continue are our past-time if they took it away.

How many father/son, mother/daughter uncles, cousins, and everyone else would have there hunting pleasures ruined just for some SLIM chance there'd be some larger bucks for some hunters. There's no way my old man could hunt by himself. And if I got a deer on opener and had to sit in the shack for 2,3,5,10 days waiting for him to get a deer???? Oh right, I could sit out there "grouse hunting" I'm sure! The DNR would really fall for that!

Party hunting allows for the party to stay together until the end! Alot of parties that I know all shoot their own deer but tell each other, "hey-if a monster buck comes by, take it." Some would just rather let there son or daughter fill their tag to keep them out hunting and enjoy the outdoors. Some just want the venison know matter who takes it. And if one hunter takes two nice bucks...who's to say that one hunter who didn't get one wouldn't have...or maybe its late in the season so they were forced to shoot a young buck?

Oh-you say party hunters often take there mother or daughters or friends deer that don't even make it out in the woods? Thats like saying guns kill people...maybe you should get on that waggon and boycot firearms just cause someone got shot with a gun we should take them all away? Thats pretty much their argument right????? But we know better as hunter and maybe you should come to your senses about not all party hunters do illegal activities!

Get a clue...it's not all about YOU!

[lakevet]

Party hunting ban for bucks only will reduce buck take by about 7% according to the MN DNR. With Aprs closer to 85% of younger bucks will be "saved". Often party hunting is put first on the list of things to ban as a lightening rod whipping boy, even though it it well proven that banning party hunting reduces harvest of deer minimally (less than 10%). Those that are against legal party hunters (as apposed to poachers who violate existing laws, drop a dime on them instead of complaining about them and letting them go) generally do so for "feel good" reasons instead of management by science. If you disagree, post references of peer reviewed studies that prove me wrong.

Wisconsin and Iowa both allow party hunting for bucks including trophy bucks and have for years. I have only heard silence when this point is brought up because the fact is that party hunting doesn't interfere with the production of big bucks. Wisconsin and Iowa are proof of that year after year after year after year.

lakevet

Any comments/citations of references or just more silence. And if silence what good does it do to ban one style of hunting on the basis of personal preference when the stated reason for the ban (more big bucks) is contradicted by facts and neighboring states records? Not to mention Minnesota's big buck production records from back when we had party hunting and a post peak of the rut hunt. I am all ears for examples of situations documented that party hunting ban has resulted in any significant increase in big bucks. When we back out the emotion and manage by science/ statistics, often hunters disagreements are reduced because you look at the facts and make your own decision based on that. For one hunter to tell another that I want to ban your style of hunting because I just don't like it and the stats don't back it up, it makes for a lot of unnecessary friction.

thanks,

lakevet

[lakevet]

to me party hunting is not wrong but the abuse of it witch the members of the party buy tags for the wife that never sets foot in the woods or deer camp ..thats wrong.

I appreciate that you think party hunting is not wrong. In the example you give, they are NOT members of the same party as defined in the rule book. That is clearly stated in the regs book. They are breaking the law by using someone else's tag illegally. I remember a bowhunter in our area would use his wife's archery tag. That came to an end when someone called a CO on him and the CO asked the wife, who had filled her archery tag the previous 5 years in a row, to do a little target practice in the backyard with her bow. She couldn't even draw it back. I don't lump all archers in with that guy. Please don't describe people like that as party hunters. That group is not party hunters but in both instances they are people illegally using someone else's tag. These law breakers will continue to break the law even with a party hunting ban added to the rules. The only significant effect a party hunting ban has is to take away from legal party hunters the tradition they have of party hunting together as a group (often family) style of hunting.

lakevet

[Gordie]

quote from elwood: to me party hunting is not wrong but the abuse of it witch the members of the party buy tags for the wife that never sets foot in the woods or deer camp ..thats wrong.

I appreciate that you think party hunting is not wrong. In the example you give, they are NOT members of the same party as defined in the rule book. That is clearly stated in the regs book. They are breaking the law by using someone else's tag illegally. I remember a bowhunter in our area would use his wife's archery tag. That came to an end when someone called a CO on him and the CO asked the wife, who had filled her archery tag the previous 5 years in a row, to do a little target practice in the backyard with her bow. She couldn't even draw it back. I don't lump all archers in with that guy. Please don't describe people like that as party hunters. That group is not party hunters but in both instances they are people illegally using someone else's tag. These law breakers will continue to break the law even with a party hunting ban added to the rules. The only significant effect a party hunting ban has is to take away from legal party hunters the tradition they have of party hunting together as a group (often family) style of hunting.

lakevet

lakevat I share your passion for hunting as well with family or party hunting and I wasnt saying that those people were party hunting but its those people that say THEY are party hunting. I know that its against the laws if they do thast as Ia neighbor of mine had found that out several years ago as well much like the wife that couldnt draw the bow the woman couldnt load the shell in the gun.

I have heard a ton of deffinitions of party hunting and the only one I belive or follow is the one in the regulation booklet.

You can ban party hunting and it wont stop the people that already break the law but it will keep the people that are honest... honest

You will never be able to stop all the people that poach as well they do it with the laws that are in effect now and will do it if the laws change reguardless and that is the saddest fact of all because you cant control what the poacher takes out of the woods we can try but we all have to aid in theis effort.

[Juneau4]

Never knew you had to be able to draw a bow back or have to be able to load a firearm to buy a deer license and use it. All you have to do is be in the field and be helping in the taking of a deer and your license can be used. You don't even have to have a weapon with you.

[Gordie]

problem was she was at home when the deer was tagged and I do think you have to have a weapon of the same type that the rest of your party is using to qualify as a meember of that party to huntn legally

[Juneau4]

No weapon is required ,but you must be in the field and you can not cross license archery and firearm.

[pulleye16]

so ELWOOD-per your explination see if I got this right. You'd like to ban party hunting cause people who claim to do illegal activities claim "they are party hunting." Then you say people that do illegal activities will continue to do so? So you'd like to ban party hunting to basically just hurt the honest people...cause you said it'll keep honest people honest right?

hmmmmmm...SO WHAT WOULD THAT CHANGE???? honest people that were honest party hunting are still doing everything per the book and the people who are hunting illegal would still be doing it illegal...per your quote.

Wow...you should run for office cause that makes NO sense what so ever and would solve absolutly nothing!

[reinhard1]

i think most hunters are honest and abide by the law. i have party hunted since the 60's as i stated before and most of the time we tag our own deer and we are all in the woods together during the entire time. regardless if your hunting or fishing there are some who break the law. set an example to others and your kids and there will be less people breaking the law. good luck.

[96trigger]

My "Party" if you want to call it that quit party hunting years ago. The availibility of tags has made it obsolete in my area. Nobody in my groupl really wants or goes through more than two deer a year, except me. And I hunt more and with more methods than any of them. We quit doing deer drives and you know what? We still have just as much fun as we did when we were pushing deer. It is a little bit different, but still fun. The same people are still there at night BSing about what they saw/didn't see. What they shot and what they missed. I am in no way supportive of banning party hunting in lottery zones, but in areas where there are multiple tags, why is it needed? I also don't know why people would have such a hard time ending party hunting for just bucks. The state is pretty explicit in saying that each hunter should be allowed one buck a year, yet with party hunting, I just read about someone shooting 3 trophy deer in a matter of minutes. I guess I just don't see the need for that. Kudos for her for being a great shot, but those two other bucks maybe could have made two more people very happy, instead of just one.

I guess my pont is that if you think ending party hunting would be the end of the fun, I guess I don't get get it and maybe never will. Sorry.

[Deep]

96trigger, are you hunting by where you live? I like the party hunting, we travel up north 200 miles for a week, if I shot my deer the first morning and could not go out for the rest of the week it might drive me crazy. I am not good of a cook to hust be the camp cook and not to mention that the liver would be damaged.

[InTheNorthwoods]

Party Hunting - I think the biggest issue with this is that when people say no party hunting, they really mean "everyone shoots their own deer". I will again reference ND, where a large number of hunters use deer drives as their main hunting tactic. But party hunting, i.e. shooting a deer and using another person's tag, is illegal. I don't see why MN can't employ a similar law. Personally, I think that there are alot of ways that people can still participate in the hunt when an individual has already shot their own deer without actually pulling the trigger on a deer for someone else. At the same time, I'll never understand the logic in a law that allows another person to fill the tag that has been issued in the name of another and is a privilege earned by that individual. Just my opinion.

[surewood]

I would like to see the season pushed back a week. Sure hope we never go to intensive harvest. Five deer is alot per hunter. Don't understand how managed is two and then they go straight to five with intensive. In my opinion we Minnesotans shoot to many young deer. I'd like to see our herd reach a more mature level. To each their own I guess. The brown it's down attitude has been changeing though. I hear about more and more people being selective of what they shoot.

[B. Amish]

i would abolutely hate to have the season pushed back. have you guys been outside lately, it's friggin cold out. call me a wuss, i don't care. i would rather hunt in 35-40 degrees than 10-20 degrees.

on our property, around thanksgiving the deer are gone - off to better winter habitat - some years its a little earlier and some years its a little later but thanksgiving is about the average. move the season back and you'd have lots of scenarios like this for lots of people all over the state.

of course, as a bowhunter, i'd absolutely love to have the rut to hunt without all those weekend warrior gun hunters.

[Gordie]

hmmmmmm...SO WHAT WOULD THAT CHANGE????

First I would NOT like to see party hunting ban I dont see a problem with it..

And Nothing will Change no matter what laws are in place when it comes to illeagal hunting practices.. they will still do it

[ItsaCrappieLife]

So how exactly would no party hunting work? Once you get your deer you go home and sit on the couch? If you're the last one in your party to get a deer your hunting by yourself? Just trying to get an idea of how it would change the hunt. The no buck party hunting seems like a really good idea. It would probably cause a lot more guys to pass up small bucks if they knew they were done for the season once they shoot one.

I kind of like the mix of zones that are available now as it gives you some choices as to what kind of hunt you are looking for.

[surewood]

Bamish it's not that cold. Deer are'nt wintering yet. Monday night I saw a very nice buck dogging a doe across 169 and into a parking lot. he sure did'nt care about traffic either. In my mind it all comes down to Quality over Quanity.

[hockeybc69]

Seems everyone is getting all wrapped around the axle on this no BUCK party hunting thats been discussed.

What do you do when you shoot your buck?

Go sit on stand and party hunt for a doe.

Simple as that.

Everyone is so worried about whether they sit in the cabin, or go home, or what they are going to do.

Go hunt your hearts galore until your party is filled out if its that important.

[surewood]

I'm in favor of party hunting. Bad apples in every group which is to bad.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Should re-name it group hunting. Party hunting has a not so good connotation. I picture a bunch of wild party with guns and booze filling tags for everyone in the family. Bullets flying and blood flowing.

[pulleye16]

Seems everyone is getting all wrapped around the axle on this no BUCK party hunting thats been discussed.

What do you do when you shoot your buck?

Go sit on stand and party hunt for a doe.

Simple as that.

Everyone is so worried about whether they sit in the cabin, or go home, or what they are going to do.

Go hunt your hearts galore until your party is filled out if its that important.

You guys do realize that not all hunters have access to doe permits right???

From what I hearing from anti party hunters is they can all shoot multiple deer. Not all of us have that. If I shot a buck in my zone and party hunting no longer exists..I'm done! there are no DOES to be had, only if someone is lucky enough to have a doe tag. What about years they close down does tags?

[gr8icefishinmind]

WOW......that was alot to read to catch up on this thread!! I am all for moving the season back, just cause i am a greedy bowhunter! And as far as you people that say with a limited tagging you would shoot your deer opening morning and be done, well, pass up on that first little buck you see and hunt a few more days! Just because you see one doesn't mean you have to shoot it, one of the best things about hunting is being out enjoying the outdoors and everything it has to offer. I have passed on many many does and quite a few small, NONSHOOTER, bucks this year and it doesn't bother me a bit cause i am still having a blast!! Although i can see why you public land hunters shoot anything you see cause it more than likely will get shot by someone else.

I am still for the "buy a doe tag shoot a doe only" idea!!

We all have different ideas of what hunting is. To me, hunting doesn't involve pushing cornfields and groves and so on to shoot whatever has been spooked in there by someone else and be done. To me, hunting is scouting out an area and spending hours upon hours in a tree stand waiting for that deer i have been scouting all summer and fall to come by me, yet i enjoy every minute in that stand no matter how cold, rainy, hot, or buggy it may be!! But we are all different in our ideals.

[gr8icefishinmind]

And as far as the original post on here.......here are my thoughts!

1. Definetly

2. 100% agree

3. Agree and again do the get a doe tag shoot a doe only!

4. Don't care!

5. I personally would like to see it go back to two seperate weekends of hunting.

6. I agree that sticky tags would make a difference with poaching, but honestly there are soooo many people that do not register their deer and really have no idea they are supposed to register their deer after they shoot one.

[surewood]

I hunt public land. I hear all the time if I don't shoot it someone else will. Poor reason to pull the trigger. Maybe you let it go and a kid gets they're first deer. Quality of the hunt, not whether you shoot one or not.

[lakevet]

At the same time, I'll never understand the logic in a law that allows another person to fill the tag that has been issued in the name of another and is a privilege earned by that individual. Just my opinion.

In our party we willing GIVE our tag to someone else to use. Look at both sides of the process, a giver and the one who gets the gift. It is about being willing to give that opportunity to someone else. We see it as giving a very valuable gift that even the richest, highest member of society only gets one buck tag. Giving that gift means you are happy that the other person had the experience of getting another deer and you share in that by giving up gladly your tag, and thus your chance to fill that tag. I'll never understand the logic that wants to take away my ability and choice to give my tag to my elderly Dad whose health is not the greatest or my kids, just to "save the bucks". You can buy alot of stuff to give, but when you give your tag, you personally are sacrificing for someone else's benefit.

In fishing "party hunting" is the rule and no one argues over that.

lakevet

[lakevet]

The state is pretty explicit in saying that each hunter should be allowed one buck a year, yet with party hunting, I just read about someone shooting 3 trophy deer in a matter of minutes. I guess I just don't see the need for that. Kudos for her for being a great shot, but those two other bucks maybe could have made two more people very happy, instead of just one.

In our party, the entire group would be all fired up and happy about it. The 2 people who gifted their tags to make it possible would have very big smiles in the group picture.

THINK US not ME MINE MYSELF

Success as a group is as enjoyable as success as an individual. This is generally easier to understand the older a person becomes.

Final point, I still hear silence/ no replies about the fact that IOWA and WISCONSIN produce tons of book/trophy bucks and have had party hunting for years. In the years Minnesota totally DOMINATED the book buck entries, it had party hunting. MNDNR says banning cross tagging only reduces buck harvest by a measly 7%. Party hunting isn't the factor, it was the decision to move the hunt onto the rut. This thread already has posts about how much harder it is to be hunting now (post rut peak). Hunters love the easier buck hunting during the rut. Especially for the young bucks. Remember how stupid you were at that age? I do. Letting that testosterone settle down before the gun hunt starts lets more bucks survive. Why do you want to take away my ability to gift my tag when it won't save any significant numbers of bucks for next year?

Banning party hunting is divisive and doesn't result in any significant improvement in buck population size or composition.

Still waiting for a reply on that point.

lakevet

[Arctic]

I really don't think we need to go to buck tags in Minnesota. If you want quality bucks, then you just can't kill the young ones. This is not rocket science.

And besides, unless you're a kid or taking your first deer, a button buck, spike, or fork just isn't gonna impress anyone. You might just as well kill a doe.

Overall the Minnesota DNR does a good job managing the state's deer herd, IMO. The only things I would change is shortening the season in some areas where it has been lengthened and establishing antler size restrictions state-wide.

I would impose SEVERE penalties on poachers.

[mabr]

Lakevet, I’m going to have to disagree and I’ll explain why I’m not for cross tagging.

As I’ve said previously I hunt several different areas some under Intensive harvest and others on Lottery. Our party for gun season has a tradition where we ALWAYS hunt (lottery area) on opening weekend sometimes up to 5 days. We usually have 6 people in our party and of those 6 we usually have 2 deer on the pole by end of the season. I remember one time in the 15 years we’ve hunted together there were 4 killed, and that was back when it was under management (2 tags).

I’m pretty lucky at deer hunting and I usually see anywhere from 5 to 50 deer during that weekend were hunting. I’m usually the only one who sees this many deer and it never fails after opening day they all start offering up tags for me to fill. They know my answer every year but they still ask. My answer has always been “I'll take a doe if you have a tag but I won’t shoot your buck”. I’ve giving them my stands and they still don’t manage to fill their tags. BUT if I had (and I feel pretty certain I could every year) Our area would REALLY have a lot less deer than we have now. The DNR has a pretty good idea what mine, yours and every person in MN is going to take over the season. BUT if me or a few other guys I know were giving the green light and had no scruples when deer hunting you’d really see a rise in harvest rates. IMO, The guys against this are fairly reliable or could be if we were willing to shoot every deer we see. And I know there are some out there that DON’T have scruples when it comes to pulling the trigger. You’ve read the threads on here, (how many tags can these guys have, there still whacking them during muzzy). It’s happening still. Your stats from the DNR saying its only 7% I seriously doubt. I don’t know many guys,(including our party) who admit that my buddy took it instead of me when their checking it in or dropping it off at the processors. I guess it’s the guys thing.

Now the one time I MIGHT be ok with it is if the area is Intensive harvest, I’m still a little leery on that for the same reasons. Does? No problem but not bucks.

[mabr]

I tried to edit one thing I need to clarify before getting scolded. I do not hunt the big woods nor have I to date. So my opinions are only for the central part of the state. I understand the differences between the areas I hunt and the northern areas are huge.

[96trigger]

Just wondering if ANY of you EVER read the parts where I have said that I am not in favor of ending party hunting for bucks or any other deer for that matter, in areas without multiple tags. Anyone? After hearing all the responses I'm just wondering.

Lakevet, its great that you feel so passionately about gifting your tag. Of course, you've never answered my question from a previous about why you would need to gift a tag if multiple are available. I guess I'll get my answer when you get yours about Iowa and Wisconsin.

As for gifting a tag so one person can shoot multiple bucks, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I can see it in some cases, but not many.