New NFL rule

[B. Amish]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5706132

great bit by Mark Schlereth

that there is a quality rant. nicely done.

[FishLocker]

Joe Patterno had a great thought...article seems to go beyond throw back jerseys:o)

I am sure this will cause a ruckus.......

for the record, I played nose tackle and middle linebacker and only have my good looks because of a full cage mask. I would be pretty busted up without it! And was fearless WITH it.

.

JoePa didn't wear a facemask. He doesn't think today's players should, either.

By Matt Hinton

The NFL is upping the ante yet again on helmet-to-helmet hits and other vicious collisions, promising even more aggressive fines and suspensions in the wake of a particularly violent weekend. The NCAA has been concerned with the same problem lately, led by the Big Ten.

And if it's really serious about it, Joe Paterno has an idea from his own playing days at Brown, right after the war (Second World, that is, not Civil). If you want players to stop leading with their heads, Paterno told reporters during Tuesday's Big Ten conference call, lose the facemasks already:

"I've been saying for years, we should get rid of the facemask. ... It's a weapon, guys are fearless."[/b

Predictably, the whippersnappers in the ranks – namely 35-year-old Northwestern coach Pat Fitzgerald, who opted for maximum coverage as an All-American linebacker in the mid-'90s – aren't so enthusiastic about the idea. But more than a few people who actually study head injuries aren't so dismissive: As the Wall Street Journal reported last year, the growing research on the long-term effects of repeated head shots, even when helmets are involved, have led some experts to conclude that the protection does more harm than good by making head-cracking too routine. Troy Aikman is down with that, and he knows from head injuries.

Of course, helmets were introduced largely to combat the "boy-killing, man-mutilating" violence that nearly got the game banned outright at the turn of the 20th Century. The facemask wasn't standard until the mid-'50s, well after the end of JoePa's career at Brown and into his tenure as a young assistant at Penn State. You can play football without a facemask.

While we're at it, Paterno would also like to know whatever happened to those canary dishes, the Andrews Sisters? Used to be a Joe could always get togged to the bricks for a jolly up in this town, even if he was a cement mixer. But these days, every night's in the cave with a platter and a glass of dog soup, patting his alderman like some wheat lunger.

[CJH]

Its there job to break up the pass, its what they get paid for, and they'll do whatever it takes to do that. Not to mention it was a legal hit, and he got fined $50,000 for it.

That's where you were wrong. Its an illegal hit - spearing is and has been illegal for quite some time. That's why he got fined. You can break up the pass without using your head.

[schmitty3]

That's where you were wrong. Its an illegal hit - spearing is and has been illegal for quite some time. That's why he got fined. You can break up the pass without using your head.

He lead with the shoulder. That has always been a legal hit, but now since this new rule came up it is being called illegal. Why does he all of sudden get fined $50k for this when you go to youtube and look up hundreds of plays alike where the defender has never been fined.

[LMITOUT]

Goodell needs to go.

[fishersofmen]

I agree. The league should bring in Maturi, a guy who really knows how to run things.

[JBMasterAngler]

Schlereth commentary was great! He's about the only guy I like on any of the NFL shows. Paterno's idea is worth looking into.

[Dark Cloud]

Schlereth's rant was great. Really hit the nail on the head...

My boss had a good point today. He is from England and played rugby at a high level over there. He brought up basically what Paterno said, if you took away the helmet/pads/ect guys would learn how to tackle properly. I kid him that if rugby players wore pads they'd be able to play at full-speed.

[greebs]

"He lead with the shoulder. That has always been a legal hit, but now since this new rule came up it is being called illegal. Why does he all of sudden get fined $50k for this when you go to youtube and look up hundreds of plays alike where the defender has never been fined."

I think you are right in that he (Harrison) lead with the shoulder on the hit of the wide receiver but the shot to cribbs was pretty much helmet to helmet. Either way there was never an attempt to tackle the other player; it was a flat out hit. It may be legal or now but have no problem if they change it so that the defender needs have arms outstretched ready to grab the player for the tackle. The defender has so much force built up when he holds his arms tight to the body and then does the lunging motion. Even if it's with the shoulder rather than helmet it's more of a jolt to the defenseless receiver than the human body is really capable of taking without injury.

I saw a comment where Harrison mentioned that he can't change the way he was taught to play as a 10 year old. My son played pee wee football and they never did tackle drills like that where the emphasis was to jar the other player rather than wrap and tackle.

[creepworm]

You have to remember that Harrison is a dumb [PoorWordUsage]. This is the guy that would not go to the white house to meet the president after the Steelers won the super bowl because he was not invited before they were champs, so why would they get invited now. Anything Harrison says should be taken with a grain of salt. He was threatening to quit playing because of these rules, seeing he has been a repeat offender many times for this, I think he probably should.

[schmitty3]

The guys are not out there to make proper tackles. They are trying to make big hits. They get praised for the kinds of hits Harrison had. Listen to all of the players talk about what they think about the new enforcement. They all think its a dumb rule. Even Cribbs said hisself Harrison was just doing his job.

[Nate McVey]

Yesterday morning I emailed Mike and Mike about adopting a version of the yellow/red card from soccer. Later that afternoon, I hear Mike Tirico talking about the same thing..........anyway, why not let the refs give out "cards" during the game following the basic lines of soccer.

Use a certain number of yellow/red cards to apply suspensions and ejections and take the Monday morning QB out of it. It has to be frustrating for the refs to not call something on Sunday and then have the league decide it should have been called and levy a fine. The refs have a hard enough job out there and manage to do a pretty decent job of it most times.

That Schlereth rant was impressive, I'd like to get a few beers in him and get him out of the studio and away from the camera to see what he really thinks!

[Shack]

Yesterday morning I emailed Mike and Mike about adopting a version of the yellow/red card from soccer. Later that afternoon, I hear Mike Tirico talking about the same thing..........anyway, why not let the refs give out "cards" during the game following the basic lines of soccer.

Use a certain number of yellow/red cards to apply suspensions and ejections and take the Monday morning QB out of it. It has to be frustrating for the refs to not call something on Sunday and then have the league decide it should have been called and levy a fine. The refs have a hard enough job out there and manage to do a pretty decent job of it most times.

That Schlereth rant was impressive, I'd like to get a few beers in him and get him out of the studio and away from the camera to see what he really thinks!

I remember that in soccer. That is very similar to what they used with my kids when they were in grade school, but instead of handing out a yellow or red card they just would start out on with a single green card on a board with your name above it in the AM. They would start out at green, if some minor happened they would replace it with a yellow card. Yellow is kind of a warning and if a kid got to a red card, they were in trouble. Certain times of the year the teacher would add up how many days/weeks the good kids went with their card staying on green and not being flipped to either yellow or red. They would reward them with treat or something. Always would ask my sons when they got home if they got their card flipped today.

Funny thing though, my sons first and only time he got his card flipped at all was for playing non-two handed touch football during recess. This happened the day after KARE 11 ran a special with undercover cameras & elementary schools playgrounds being unsupervised with kids fighting though. When my son came home and I was told about this, when I followed up with the principal I was told they were cracking down because of this.

[CJH]

He lead with the shoulder. That has always been a legal hit, but now since this new rule came up it is being called illegal. Why does he all of sudden get fined $50k for this when you go to youtube and look up hundreds of plays alike where the defender has never been fined.

He lead with his head, the shoulder was second. Helmets hit first, watch the video from all angles. I just did again.

They are getting fined now because they are choosing enforce the rule that's been on the books for quite some time. They now have the medical tests to know they are doing very serious damage, prematurely ending people's careers, and permanently causing brain damage leading to dementia.

Joe Senser was and he was on KFAN the other day and spoke against it. He said he personally looked at several brain scans with a leading doctor and they are causing a black area on the brain that control coordination, quickness, reaction time, recognition, etc... Basically that part of the brain is dying.

I played football and love it, but I don't care how much money they make, its not entertainment to me to see somebody take shots like that and risk permanently getting hurt.

[schmitty3]

He lead with his head, the shoulder was second. Helmets hit first, watch the video from all angles. I just did again.

I played football and love it, but I don't care how much money they make, its not entertainment to me to see somebody take shots like that and risk permanently getting hurt.

I find it entertaining, and most other football fans do. Its part of the game theres gonna be big hits, and the majority of them have helmet to helmet contact. whether they are leading with the helmet or not the helmet do collide.

Dont know about you but i find this video pretty entertaining.

[Nate McVey]

Here's another part of the deal, the fastest growing demographic for the NFL is women (moms, wives and girlfriends). How many of them want to see someone end up paralyzed or worse, dead? That would put an end to a lot of NFL games being shown in MANY homes across the country and lead to a lot less kids growing up playing football. The NFL has always done a good job of being proactive and correcting issues that may be bad for business (that's what this is after all).

Big hits are still going to happen, people are still going to get knocked out and have snot bubbles, but if/when something tragic does happen, the NFL can say they took the necessary steps to prevent it.

Just my $.02.............

[schmitty3]

I just don't see how you can fine/suspend players for doing what they have been coached to do. Another thing is for the people who say they should aim for the mid section, what if the reciever drops his head right before contact is made? That is an instict move that almost all the recievers do to protect themselves. When they drop there head the hit that was gonna be in the chest turns into a helmet to helmet hit, and the defender is getting fined or suspended. And thats just STUPID

[Nate McVey]

I just don't see how you can fine/suspend players for doing what they have been coached to do. Another thing is for the people who say they should aim for the mid section, what if the reciever drops his head right before contact is made? That is an instict move that almost all the recievers do to protect themselves. When they drop there head the hit that was gonna be in the chest turns into a helmet to helmet hit, and the defender is getting fined or suspended. And thats just STUPID

I don't know about you, but when I played football we were coached to go in with our head up and put our "hat" on the ball and wrap up, it was called form tackling. Not one coach ever told us to tackle with our heads down, all that leads to is the ball carrier throwing a juke on ya and leaving you face down in the dirt. The way the suspension/fine rule sounds is if the defensive player comes in with his head down, leaves his feet or spears that's where it comes into play.

The NFL isn't going to start suspending players for a good form tackle that turns into a helmet to helmet hit, now that would be STUPID.

[schmitty3]

I don't know about you, but when I played football we were coached to go in with our head up and put our "hat" on the ball and wrap up, it was called form tackling. Not one coach ever told us to tackle with our heads down, all that leads to is the ball carrier throwing a juke on ya and leaving you face down in the dirt. The way the suspension/fine rule sounds is if the defensive player comes in with his head down, leaves his feet or spears that's where it comes into play.

The NFL isn't going to start suspending players for a good form tackle that turns into a helmet to helmet hit, now that would be STUPID.

Well they are not playing in pop warner, this is the NFL. They don't try to make form tackles. They do what they can to hit the ball carrier as hard as they can.

[rugbymn]

My boss had a good point today. He is from England and played rugby at a high level over there. He brought up basically what Paterno said, if you took away the helmet/pads/ect guys would learn how to tackle properly. I kid him that if rugby players wore pads they'd be able to play at full-speed.

I happen to agree with your boss. I've been playing rugby for 15 years and have taken exactly 1 head on head hit. I've probably seen only a half dozen in that time as well. I know it's not the NFL, but it's still tackling another running human being. Add to that the fact that rugby is 80 continuous minutes as compared to 60 minutes with less than 1/2 of that as actual playing time in the NFL and you're looking at A LOT more tackles per game/match in rugby (about 300 tackles per rugby match vs maybe 50? tackles per average football game). The bottom line is that I've given and received literally thousands of hits in my career and some of those have been hits that would cripple (or at least temporarily disable) most average people. All of them were done by putting the shoulder into the gut.

Nearly the same rate of head to head hits takes place at the international level as it does at the local levels, telling me that it's not "incidental" in the NFL. The main reason being that it's illegal in the game of rugby to tackle without making an attempt to wrap up the person. Forcing the tackler to attempt to wrap forces them to put their shoulder into the guy and put their head on one side or the other. Football players, on the other hand, are coached to try to cause a fumble at any cost. The helmet is a very effective way to do that.

Make it a rule that the tackler has to wrap up the runner and you've just taken a giant step toward solving the problem. Those hits hurt just as much and they look just as good. The only difference is that one guy isn't unconscious with a bruise on his brain at the end of the play.

[greebs]

+1 to rugbyman's comments.

if the offense gets a completion on the play so be it; he won that battle. tackle him so he doesn't go any further and move on to the next play and try to prevent him from catching the ball next time.

[MuleShack]

Good post rugbyman,

I agree.

We all watch football to see the "great" players from each team perform. When needless injuries occur that affects the teams performance and causes them to use 2nd string players. The game is more exciting with the starters playing, not on the sidelines or in the training room.

Yea, the shoulder pads can dislodge the ball as well as the helmet is some instances.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

whatever happened to good old fashioned tackling the ball carrier by wrapping him up and taking him down? like several have said, so many players come in with their arms and hands tucked into their body and use the battering ram effect on the ball carrier or receiver. all they need to do is require the defensive player to make contact with their arms extended out ready to tackle. the game is supposed to be about the defense trying to stop the offense from making that catch by defending him but it's getting to be where the defense doesn't care if he catches it and we'll just try to knock the ball loose by timing the hit when he's most vulnerable.

also you think about these players that are taking these hits are typically players that are stretched out or being taken down by another defender when the big hits comes from another player. these football players are obviously tough but when you think about it, what they are doing often is the equivalent of a sucker punch or attacking someone from behind. why is that considered cheap in a street or bar fight but on the football field it makes the highlights?

agree, pure tackling is a thing of the past now

[schmitty3]

Some of these plays happen in split seconds. The players dont have time to think about making a form tackle and changing what there doing that fast. Plus just by rapping there arms around the reciever doesnt mean there wont be helmet to helmet contact. The league is gonna fine and suspend players who make helmet to helmet contact no matter what. Just because they rapped there arms around the ball carrier doesnt mean they wont get fined.

[greebs]

Hmmmmm....no questionable hits yet it was entertaining football yesterday and nobody retired over the rules. Maybe not a big deal afterall.

[FISHINGURU]

I wonder when everyone will start wearing panties?

[greebs]

it almost sounds as if you are disappointed there were no major knockouts this weekend.

[schmitty3]

$20,000 for this oh so vicious hit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAhilHh_aCw

[mrklean]

i think more then anything they are sending him a messages he has been known for late and dirty hit. It should have drawn a flag for sure, i think if it was anyone else no fine.

[greebs]

So does the player getting hit need to get carried off the field before you consider it a cheap shot? He clearly used his helmet to lead on the hit and no question that qb had gotten rid of ball. Intentional helmet shots like that don't add anything to the game. Harrison loves to hit em high from behind and when another defender has the person already wrapped up. What's the glory in that?