How to rule out unproductive water?

[FISHER ED]

We were out on Vermillion a few weeks ago looking for walleye and was told by a couple bait shops that the fish were in the 30-40 foot depths with vertical jig/minnow presentations. This is the same info we got from anglers at the end of the day that had fish in the livewells. We fished areas that were pointed out to us and never had a bite nor marked a fish.

The question is, how does a person rule out unproductive water when you are moving slow enough to keep your jig vertical in that depth of water? It seemed like we wouldn't cover much ground at that speed. When I hear people say that if you don't mark fish or get a bite in 10-15 minutes to move on but it just seemd that we didn't cover any area in that time. I'm sure we spent too much time in dead spots or when we did cover some ground we were moving too fast.

The thing that got me was everyone we talked to said they never marked any fish where they ended up catching fish. We can hold out own when it comes to shallow water, early season jig/minnow and mid summer bottom bouncer fishing but this fall bite has us stumped. Any help would be welcome. Thanks.

[jwmiller33]

if your trying to cover ground to find fish, i would much rather lindy rig or even troll until i find/catch/mark some fish, and then maybe once i am seeing a bunch of fish on the graph, THEN i will slow down and vertical jig over that spot. when your jigging unfamiliar waters, you can spend a lot of time covering unproductive ground because of the slow presentation

[PerchJerker]

I'd say you need good electronics, you need to know how to use them, and you need to trust them --- and then you need to use them to look for fish. In 30-40 fow you should be marking fish if they're there.

I'd drive through the spots at 2-3 mph and look for fish on my graph --- even if I didn't mark any fish I might try fishing there, but I wouldn't give it much time if I wasn't marking fish or getting bites. Spend a little time checking it out, then off to the next spot. Sometimes it works ..... sometimes it doesn't.

[BobT]

That's always one of my biggest hang-ups. I have a hard time deciding when it's time to move on. Every time the thought comes to me I think but what if the fish move into the area right after I leave? It's happened enough to warrant the question.

Three years ago on opening weekend, on Vermilion actually, we were fishing in Moccasin Point Narrows and weren't getting much. There was still quite a bit of ice floating through the area and we were using the electric motor to maneuver the boat around them as they floated by. At one point there was a rather large sheet coming and we decided to move around the island there and come in on the back side so we could follow the ice sheet. There was another boat with us and they elected to stay in the area. Guess what? By the time we got back to their position they happily informed us that we missed the bite. They had enough fish in the livewell for a fish fry to prove it. Just my luck I guess.

[Northlander]

I fish spots that I have either caught fish at before or look good on the map. I will work a spot for about 30 minutes to maybe 45 minutes and if I dont get what Im looking for I move.

This time of year find the sharpest breaks you can off of main land points etc. Also the sharp drops off of mid lake reefs will hold fish.

If you arent seeing fish and you have good electronics and know how to set them up and read them move on. Lots of times you dont have to move far just keep moving until you find fish.

I would also lindy rig or pullspinners to find active fish then sit on them with a jig later.

When I was on Vermillion last week it was a lindy bite with golden shiners doing the most damage.

[Deitz Dittrich]

I'm with Perch on this one.. I would not fish an area till I marked fish. vert jigging like that can be fantastic. Heavier jigs help get it down there and stay down there. But when that is the bite, I think more like ice fishing. Actually work the fish much like you do on a graph ice fishing.

[BobT]

Not fishing an area until you actually mark fish. With the tunnel vision you have with the electronics and the way fish tend to spook away from boats on first arrival, doesn't that mean you are leaving a lot of productive water behind?

With a 20 degree tansducer you're not seeing much.

@ 10' depth you only see a 3.5' diameter area of the bottom and less as you go up in the column.

@ 15' - 5.25'

@ 20' - 7'

@ 25' - 9'

@ 30' - 10.5'

Because you don't see a fish in a 5' diameter area within a 1,000 acre lake doesn't mean they aren't there. You must do a lot of running around looking at fishless water.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Or you have SI and see them all..

[Nick Kuhn]

Or you have SI and see them all..

I think I see more fish on the 20/60 degree mix 2d sonar than I do on the SI alone. For the most part I use SI to keep myself the same distance from a weed or breakline.

[John Mickish]

Or you have SI and see them all..

Shhhh, don't let people know.

[Deitz Dittrich]

NK, your probably right.. but I have been quite successful at seeing schools of walleye and crappie that were not right under the boat.

[BobT]

SI...don't have it so I didn't think of it.

[GlassEyeangler]

did you ask what time of day they were catching the wallys? maybe you were there during the wrong time of day?!?

[PerchJerker]

Because you don't see a fish in a 5' diameter area within a 1,000 acre lake doesn't mean they aren't there. You must do a lot of running around looking at fishless water.

I don't run all over the whole lake just aimlessly staring at my electronics. I pick the spots I want to look at, just like you pick the spots you want to fish. Then I cruise through those spots at 2-3 mph and look for fish. I might look on breaklines, or flats, or along points, etc. to try to get an idea if there's fish there and what depth they're at. It can really help hone in on good areas and avoid spending lots of times in bad areas.

[rodmoen]

fish at 30-40 FOW in my experience are rarely "spooked" by the boat running over them at 2-3 mph. If they ain't there, dont be the "what if" guy. Be the "what next" guy

[Ed Carlson]

Check out the new LakeMaster Contour Elite software once, this stuff is KEWL!

With your user input, you can very quickly trim down unproductive water for any time of year and specifically set up a plan.

This is the future of mapping on the water, and it will keep improving with every use.

Very nifty stuff for sure.

Very Kewl stuff!

[Northlander]

Oh and 1 thing is dont just run right up to the spot with the big motor and splash onto it. I stop well before my spot and either drift over it or use my electric to check it out.

I will fish proven spots if I dont see fish and at times fish will move in and I will get them. I just find I have more confidence if I see fish and will stay longer to try to get them to bite.

[Jim Hudson]

Perch is dead on.. Spots in 30 to 40 feet of water are going to hold the fish, not just any spot. So, as with everyone else has said, this is why it is key to trust your electronics to find these fish.. This will show you that they are on the flat just outside of the break, tight to the break, associated with a cup or turn, on a point, etc. And with the advent of mapping capabilities of GPS, it makes it even easier.

Try it next time.. Just drive your boat on good looking structure and you will mark fish. From there, then fish em.. Spend 10 to 15 minutes on them, if they dont bite, go to the next area and look for the biters.

Now, fishing in 15 feet of water and under, or a lot of weed situations, I will fish spots that are "fishy" in nature. I do this because most of the time sonar will not pick up a lot of fish in this shallower water. 15 and deeper, I am always relying on my sonar to see fish before fishing them. And when I am shallow, I power fish first to find active fish. Then slow down in those areas and possibly finesse fish after I have caught all the aggressive ones.

[Wish-I-Were-Fishn]

Hire a guide?

[FISHER ED]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I don't have the latest sonar, just a Garmin 240, but I know how to use it well and get it adjusted for the situation at hand. I run a handheld GPS with Lakemaster maps so I can see where the contours are in relation to the boat. I think my biggest problem is very limited time on a lake when I am out. When you only have a day or day and a half to fish, the pressure to get on fish is huge and effects the way I fish. It's the "too much too fast" thing I would say. I just need to find a way to get rid of all the other obligations that limit my fishing time I guess. I'll be at it again next Fall again. I'll take the info I got from the other boats that day and from this site and see if I can get something in the net. For now, it's on to ice fishing. Thanks.

[John Mickish]

Yes, that not having enough time on the lake is a killer. You might want to maybe take a trip to a lake that has a higher population of fish if that is the reason for the vacation, but it's hard to find one thats prettier than Vermillion.