Lake Winnie needs your help

[gregg52]

its kinda like

just leave well enough alone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason Boser]

IF ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER DEALT WITH CHRIS YOU WILL KNOW THAT WHATEVER YOU SAY REALLY DOESNT MATTER. HE ALREADY HAS HIS MIND MADE UP AND IF HE WANTS THE 4 FISH LIMIT THAT IS WHAT WE WILL HAVE. I AM ON THE PAGE OF LEAVE IT ALONE OR RAISE THE LOW END TO 18 INCHES

JASON

[gregg52]

or another idea is maybe if you going to lower to 4 include one fish

in that slot

there so many fish over trhat 17 i think thats not a good thing in the long range deal

but i dont really know i'm not a biologist.....

just a thought

[slovene]

IF ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER DEALT WITH CHRIS YOU WILL KNOW THAT WHATEVER YOU SAY REALLY DOESNT MATTER. HE ALREADY HAS HIS MIND MADE UP AND IF HE WANTS THE 4 FISH LIMIT THAT IS WHAT WE WILL HAVE. I AM ON THE PAGE OF LEAVE IT ALONE OR RAISE THE LOW END TO 18 INCHES

JASON

Yup, as I have said before, my thoughts exactly...but I sent an e-mail to him anyway. We'll see what transpires.

[Bobberboy]

gregg52,

My gradnfather caught one 35.5 in 1971. He boated the fish out n front of Highbanks.

I know they're there. but your right it probably one in a million and I don't think I'm past 1000 yet!

[thatoneguy]

a 36 incher...well, it's good to set the bar high!

[gregg52]

as i said few and far between...

71 thats just after they flooded it...lol

(i know that not true)

[bruceye]

Jason,

I loved your post on Mr. Cavanaugh .... I have spent probably 2-3 hours on the phone with him talking about Winnie and exchanged probably a half dozen emails talking about some potential "tweeks" to the slot, and I absolutelly believe you are right on the mark with your statement. We are wasting our breath .... he already has his mind made up and he already knows what he will do with any potential changes to the rules.

Example: There are "a lot" of people that live in the twin cities area that fish Winnie and would like to have had the opportunity to attend one of their "public input" meetings ... but when was the public input meeting scheduled in the twin cities area this fall ... September 29th (a Wednesday) from 8:00-4:00 .... I rest my case on how much "public input" they want.

Why is it that the meetings in Bena and Grand Rapids were during the week in the evening when it is more reasonable for people to attend if they wish, but the one in the twin cities area was during normal working hours??? Hmmm - I wonder?

[CaptJohnWis]

just because they change the limit does not mean you will start seeing 30 inch fish. There are many other things to account for besides that.

In my opinion there is a good reason you see 26-inchers but few 28s.

I believe if they raised the slot to 30" you would see all kinds of big 29-30 inch fish. Plenty of food in Winnie to grow bigger fish.

Every lake I have ever fished where they imposed a slot has lead to many more big fish (all species) within the slot. Also more little eaters as the spawners get several years to go at it before they are kept. But I have not seen much of an increase of fish ABOVE the slot. On heavily fished lakes, the average angler just cannot bring themselves to release those big ones if they don't have to.

It would be interesting to learn how old a 27-incher is in Winnie. My guess is they still have several years ahead of them if only they could avoid hooks.

When I spend my time and money on fishing (rest is just squandered) it will mostly be on water where the limits are low. I want to catch and release lots of big fish, not fill my livewell with eaters.

[gregg52]

Winnie and mille lacs seems kinda close in the eco system as it is called

and for as long as i've been fishing both ML has way bigger fish

is it just because its a bigger lake???/

more food ???

i talked to a dnr guy once for quit awhile not sure if its the guy you guys are talking about

(jason maybe you know..this guy puts in and works out of bowens in the summer

when their doing what ever they do)

he couldnt give me a good answer

one would think as many 22-25 inch fish one catches that someday it would be loaded with bigger fish..i guess only time will till

i 'm not really buying the theory all the fish over 26 are going home in live wells

[foulpole18]

What difference does it really make if its 4 or 6 for the limit. Most people don't catch the limit when walleye fishing anyway. If the limit is 4, more people may catch there limit. If your drving from the cities just to catch a limit for the freezer, save the gas money and go to the grocery store.

[Jason Boser]

The guy out of Bowens is probably Jerry Albert a great guy who takes care of winnie as best he can As for the walleye over 26 inches going in the livewell I doubt it that there are that many I will say there are a bunch in the indian nets that get taken out, but we cant do nothing about that we been trying with no avail. I have talked with Chris over the years about all of this stuff and the arrogance of the top level is out of control

In my book most people come up to catch fish, eat fish and take some home to eat later, thats great. some people like to go after the big ones that is great too.Whateverr is a persons fancy they should do it and enjoy. The DNR's job is to keep fish in the lake we all pay good money to them now they should listen to us keep the limit at 6 and move the slot to 18. If there is more fish getting taken out, put more in its quite simple

sorry about the rant

Jason

[gregg52]

how much netting goes on up there the only ones i've ever seen is the spot right before you go up the hill to bowens theres like a area where you can camp and get a boat in but i dont think they are there every year

ya he does seem to be a nice guy (jerry) i've talked to him serval times at bowens and at the milking to

i never really have liked the possion limit on fish people go on vacation

to fish and can only bring home 4 fish a family of 4..16 1 or 2 meals for

what they pay to be up there for a week seems a shame to me

as i said leave well enough alone if it starts to go bad then change it till then its fine

[Bobberboy]

There's plenty of eaters to be caught in the metro area if that's what your after.

Again I believe it's the experience that you have when your in the area that makes the trip. I will make the trip regardless if it's 2, 4 or 6 fish. Heck there's always Perch to catch!!

[gregg52]

i think its more of just leave a good thing alone for pity sakes !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason Boser]

there is plenty of netting goes on look at birches. There might be less now that red lets them net but when red was hook and line for the indians lots of fish from winnie went there to feed the fishery

Jason

[foulpole18]

Put more in? They dont stock Winni. Its natural reproduction that keep walleyes in the lake. Take out more and just replace them, I dont think it works that way. Lake that can sustain themselves are a lot better than ones they just put more in. A lot easier on the DNR stocking budget to.

[laportian]

Boser- you are misinformed about the fact that Red Lake ever supplimented it's fishery with Winnie fish. My fathers family are Red Lakers and I have alot of ties to people at the fisheries and the Red Lake DNR, my mother is from Leech Lake so that is where I am enrolled. When RL was on the decline back in the mid 90s they did start processing fish from Canadian tribes to earn extra money. The fisheries was actually shut down from 97 until 08 I believe. Now Red Lake is netting again but the only netting that is done is by Red Lake Fisheries themselves to meet their portion of the allowable harvest qouta. They have one netting crew that goes out and sets 20 nets at a time to keep the fisheries up and running. Your average Red Lake Band member can not set nets in Red Lake. I believe they lose fishing privs if they are caught and are fined, plus their equipment is confiscated.

Now as far as netting Winnie goes only licensed Leech Lake band members are allowed to set nets. If we purchase a commercial netting permit we are allowed to set up to 2 300ft nets. The commercial season runs from September 1st until March 31st. It then closes until around May 15 and stays open for 1 month, it closes again on June 15. We can also obtain a personal netting permit that is good from May 15th until March 31. The personal netting permit only allows 1 net which can only be a maximum of 200 ft. I do not set in the summer months when commercial netting is closed because I do not have a 200 ft net. What all of this means is that we can not net during the spawn. I personally know that there only about 5 or 6 guys that net Winnie with any sort of consistency. I set my nets on the west side of the lake once or twice a week during the commercial season. An average set for me this season has been about 40 walleyes per two nets. I will also get a handful of northerns, a few tulibees, and a sucker or 2. Most of the walleyes that I get are eaters or under 2 pounds. I do occasionally get a bigger fish. I think the biggest I've ever had in a net might be in the 26 inch range. The mesh size of my nets is 1 and half inches so this eliminates getting many fish that are larger than eater size fish.

My take on the Winnie issue is that it is a shared water, meaning both Natives and non-natives have rights to harvest fish on this lake and that it is such a big tourist draw and that the local econmy would suffer it the bag limit was lowered. As it stands now the lake is holding up well and will continue to be able to sustain it's current harvest levels.

[laportian]

Boser- I would add that maybe a winnie fish or two might have made it in to the Red Lake fisheries but it is highly unlikely. See when you net a fish the net leaves telltale marks on the fish. There is no way you would be able to pass those nettied fish off as hook and line fish. They watch for things like this, and they watch closely. The only fish that can have net marks from nets are from what their own employee crew brings in. Only Red Lakers can sell fish to RL fisheries and the consequences are too great to fool around with Winnie fish. Red Lake walleyes also look different than Mississippi strain walleyes. The red lake walleyes are typically lighter in color, seem to be longer, and will never have a red tipped tail. I have handled thousands of walleyes off of both lakes and I can tell you than as a general rule of thumb they look different.

[gregg52]

curious what those permits cost

do you buy them from the dnr or a tribal deal ????

leat you hafta buy a permit there

sounds like it is regulated alittle better than mille lacs

[laportian]

gregg-we get our permits from the reservation. the cost of the commercial permit is $4 and for the personal permit it costs $2. These allow us to net any Leech Lake Reservation waters. Most of reservation netters traditionally stay on their own waters. For example the guys out in Onigum stick to that general area on Leech and the guys out in Sugar Point net that area. My moms' family is from Winnie Dam so I set on Winnie. The tribe does not sell many permits per year. I heard about 40 commercial permits were sold last year. Most people do it sparingly and I know all the Winnie guys and it really don't get hit that hard. The tribe is really stressing that us winnie netters stay on winnie due to the snail problems. I think all the guys I have talked to are abiding by this. Early on in Sept. I set on Leech down in sucker bay over two week ends but once I started on Winnie I have stayed on winnie.

The whole Mille Lacs issue is a tough one. See they always had the right to net but had to go and fight to assert these rights. It got ugly and divided people and these wounds are still fresh. With Leech Lake we've always asserted our rights. It never was an issue with the media or anything. We've just always done it and will continue to. The tribe really watches us closly. We have a core group of guys that net and I think for the most part everyone is being cool with what they are doing. I have heard lots of bad stories about nasty confrontations with non native anglers that have gotten ugly. I haven't had any too bad myself. Last year their was a lone duck hunter at the west winnie landing that me and my partner help load his boat two days in a row that did not say one word to us, like a thank you or anything. Last weekend a couple of really nice duck hunters helped me load in some pretty rough water and they knew what I was up to and gave me a hand anyway. If I knew who they were I'd give them a bag of fish for their hospitality. You know we all have to get along.

[gregg52]

how many fish did you have last week end

do you have a limit of so many pounds ?/?

well i'll make no bones about it i dont like netting but not much i can do bout it

and from what i can see it doesnt seem to have a great effect on winnie

unless this is one of the reasons the DNR thinks it has to lower the limit

[laportian]

gregg- I only went out Friday night. I think i had 26 walleyes from that set. I was out on Ravens. We have no limit. I think I read on the old Leech Lake DRM site that we take an estimated 20% of the fish out of all reservation lakes. I don't know how they come up with those numbers or even if I am remembering them correctly. No I wouldn't expect you to like or codone netting. It is just something that we do on our waters is all. And tolerance is all that can be expected.

[foulpole18]

Laportian

Your comments on netting are always done with tack and tolerance. While most guys here don't condone the netting (myself included), you always seem to have a disarming effect on the arguement. I want to thank you for trying to educate us on the traditions and the reality of your rights.

[gregg52]

just curious how you do it

you said you just went out fri night

so you just set the net awhile and pull it up the same night

or do you leave it over night

approx how many fish would it take to max that net out

[bmc]

Laportian,

Thanks for your input!! Granted, it probably won't change many people's mind-set on the netting issue, but it is nice to get some in-sight from someone "in the know".

As far as possession limit, I don't think most people comprehend or abide to it. Regardless if it's fish, small game, or waterfowl.

I don't think many, 26" + fish get brought home. I think some lakes just aren't capable of producing 30" fish. The biggest I've ever seen out of Winnie is 28".

Brian

[laportian]

foulpole and bmc- Miigwetch for the understanding and tolerance. I just noticed that once someone can't catch a fish on Mille Lacs it somehow reverts back to indians. I find that hurtful and really want everyone to know our side of the issue to be fair. Now Winnie is one of my home waters and I love it for what it is. Wish the size of the perch was better. I don't really see a problem with the walleye limits. Keep em up it keeps everyone happy and the resorts and guides don't need any setbacks like this.

gregg- I like to set my nets about an hour before sunset and pull them about sun up. I really don't know what a maxxed out net would be. The most Ive ever had in a single net was like 54. It was a full moon in Sept quite afew years back. But that is rare. If I'm in the teens or twenties I consider it a good set.

[Jason Boser]

Laportian, I too would like to thank you for keeping it informative and not letting this get out of hand. I enjoyed the info you provided. It sounds like you abide by the rules. Back in 08 when the fish packaging opened on red I heard alot of stories from law enforcement and bait dealers that would suggest not everybody was following the rules that is what I was talking about.

Jason

[tip_upclyma]

You guys crack me up.......i understand that all of us have moments when we are "pounding fish"...and actually catch a slot regulated limit of 6 in a day of fishing....but I had my ice house on winnie last winter....fished EVERY weekend for 6 weeks, and only one day did i catch my limit. (that is why i moved shack to LOW, and will never ice fish anywhere else again )

Whether it is 6 or 4, it will not matter to 98% of fisherman on a daily basis anyway.

I do appreciate the "passion" from all of the critics that love to couch quarterback their opinions...and the only knowledge they have on the subject is simply regurgitating what they heard or read.

[creepworm]

I have never fished winnie so I don't know the health of the fishery. I hear great things and I will be up there ice fishing this year. However, I am taking a fisheries class in college so I know a little bit about management.

Limits and seasons are only based 60% on biology and 40% on the publics opinions. Keeping the public happy is considered almost as important as keeping the fishery healthy.

Also, there is a certain amount death in every population. A natural lake with no humans anywhere near it would still have a certain amount of fish die of all ages, it is just something that happens. However, of those fish that would die anyway, anglers can take a certain percentage and have absolutely no effect on the fishery. They are simply taking from the fish that would die anyway. That is what the biologists are aiming for when it comes to limits.

Therefore, your opinions should make a difference seeing keeping the public happy is a huge part of fisheries management, but maybe they are seeing something in the yearly netting the dnr does that makes them think they are taking more fish out than would die naturally, having an adverse impact that will only get worse.