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Twins get Matt Capps for Ramos


SledNeck

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thats exactly what i have been saying ever since the trade happened... it is nice to add a good arm to our bullpen, but he isn't very much better than rauch, if at all

It's early yet but the stats do tell you Capps is an improvement.

Capps era is 1.13,Rauch is 2.98

Batting average against Capps .233 ,Rauch .281

Capps strikes out just over 1 per inning and and allows hits just under 1 per inning.

Rauch strikes out less than 1 per inning and allows more than 1 hit per inning.

Like I said,it's early but IMO Capps is an upgrade. Besides Rauch has had some health problems that would have forced more changes in the bullpen had they not made this move.

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you can't directly compare their numbers after the trade and only use that as your basis for comparison....

from earlier in the thread....

Capps was available for nothing this past offseason. Non-tendered by the pirates after posting a 5.80 ERA and a .324 opponents batting average (keep in mind this was in the NL). The Nats signed him for $3.5 mil because they were the only team that would let him remain a closer. Capps reputation as a "experienced closer" basically comes from him mopping up saves on bad teams. Its not like Rauch has done horrible for us, he has converted 21/25 saves with a 3.05 ERA and 27/9 strikeout to walk ratio in 38.1 innings. If he had been given the whole season, he probably would have turned into/been considered an "establish closer" much like Capps. These are some excerpts from Aaron Gleeman's take on this trade.

Take a look at their career numbers as relievers :

IP ERA FIP SO/9 BB/9 AVG OBP SLG OPS

Capps 317 3.50 3.80 7.0 1.7 .263 .302 .415 .717

Rauch 402 3.54 3.90 7.5 2.7 .242 .297 .390 .687

Their overall effectiveness is nearly identical across the board. The biggest difference between them is Capps has accumlated saves for 4 seasons while Rauch has been given that role for just 1 season, while Rauch's one season are pretty much in par with Capps career numbers.

I'd hardly suggest the Twins trading Ramos for a reliever who is "slightly better" than Rauch is a sound idea, yet by focusing on the save statistic, the Twins have done just that and many fans will instinctively be on board with the move for an "established closer". What Capps is not is an elite reliever or enough of an upgrade to part with Ramos.

Capps is arbitration eligible next year and the Twins essentially traded Ramos and Vesta for 1.5 seasons of Capps. Unfortunately part of his inflated perceived value includes his likely price-tag in arbitration, which is sure to rise from this year's $3.5 million salary to over $5 million (and perhaps well over $5 million) thanks to those same shiny-looking save totals. Next season the Twins will pay a premium for a quality setup man they perceive as something more because of a reliance on a flawed statistic and they gave up a good catching prospect for the right do that.

In fairness, Ramos' value is at an all time low right now. His historic debut caused the Twins fans who don't know any better to assume that he was destined for stardom and his subsequent struggles at Triple-A have exposed him as a good but not great prospect. However, he still projects as a good defender behind the plate and a 22-year-old being overmatched in his first experience at Triple-A is far from disastrous.

I'm not convinced that Ramos will become a star, but the possibility certainly exists and at the very least he looks capable of developing into a starting-caliber catcher for many years. Joe Mauer's presence meant Ramos had little shot to be that starting-caliber catcher in Minnesota, but that doesn't mean the Twins needed to deal him immediately or when his value was at an all-time low or for an underwhelming return like Capps.

In the Twins' minds they just traded him for an "All-Star closer." In reality they traded Ramos for a setup-caliber reliever who accumulated saves on bad teams and is thus overrated and soon overpaid. Among the 93 pitchers who've logged 150-plus relief innings in the past three calendar years, Capps ranks 38th in xFIP, 49th in FIP, 50th in ERA, 61st in strikeout rate, and 85th in opponents' average.

The Twins just paid a premium for a guy whose perceived value and ability are much higher than his actual value and ability solely because of his role and save total. Capps is a good reliever, but the Twins paid for a great reliever and did so for all the wrong reasons.

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you can't directly compare their numbers after the trade and only use that as your basis for comparison....

The only thing that matters is how they perform for this team.

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The only thing that matters is how they perform for this team.

true that.

but in a macro level baseball analysis, aggregate performance is taken into consideration

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The book on Capps is early. Thanks for the stats Canon cool

I'm still pleased on the two year value equation vs. Ramos, who has put up some hot numbers since the trade, (.295 BA, .829 OPS at Syracuse in 11 games).

Perkins, Slama, Swarzak and Neshek gives us what the White Sox have: a messed up bullpen.

I hope Rauch is done being offended and skin rashed. Gonna need him. whistle

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I like Rauch. He was solid last year and no slouch this year. What I like so far about Capps is that he attacks the hitters.

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If our bullpen is one of the best in the league I'd hate to be a fan of some of theese othere teams. The twins are gonna put me on blood pressure meds as it is.

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LOL!!!

I'm disappointed that the Twins didn't get at least one run in the 9th. They had the opportunity a couple of times to pad the lead but didn't come through.

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Capps needs to start pitching to corners more, then he'll be fine. Just get the ball off the SWEET SPOT.

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Right On!! Soldon. Capps likes to get ahead with too much predictability, and he pays for it. Needs to hit the corners!!!!!! His stuff when you know it's not coming down the pipe,, is Nathan like.

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As much as it is a bummer watching Capps blow the save last night, he didn't implode and we got out of it. Now, after watching Rauch come in, I'm VERY, VERY thankful they got Capps.... Jon looks out of gas to me. But, as a TEAM they got er done!!! Thank you Mr. Thome.

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I thought the same thing about Rausch as he followed Capps last night...big difference in the amount of juice on the ball.

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Quote:
Nationals call up 22-year-old catching prospect Wilson Ramos

Aaron Gleeman Aug. 18, 2010, 2:18 PM ET

10 comments

Wilson Ramos has hit .317/.349/.483 in 15 games at Triple-A since going from Minnesota to Washington in last month's trade for Matt Capps, and now the Nationals have called up the 22-year-old catcher while Wil Nieves is away from the team to be with his pregnant wife.

Ramos was all but guaranteed to get a September call-up, so this will merely give him a little more opportunity to impress with an eye toward potentially making the Opening Day roster next season. Ivan Rodriguez is under contract for $3 million in 2011, but he's 38 years old and has hit just .236/.255/.292 with one homer over the past 50 games.

Meanwhile, Capps blew a one-run lead last night before Jim Thome's walk-off homer and is 4-for-6 converting saves since the trade.

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Actually he's blown 1 save....the other is on a certain outfielder.

Capps is no Joe Nathan who was auto-matic for years but he's much better than Rauchs who isn't even a closer to begin with. Ramos will not be missed in the least.

Great trade!

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I agree, GOOD trade. Ramos may have never played for us.....I wonder if they weren't just checking out Butera, before including Ramos in a deal. Capps just needs to hit the corners more in A.L. He seems to have good control.....just recalibrate the aim about 6 inches farther outside.......

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It was a bad trade, no doubt, but the Twins were in a bad spot because they clearly needed help at the back end of the bullpen. It sucks to give up a blue-chip prospect in exchange for a mediocre reliever, but when you have a legit shot at a title, I guess you do what it takes to address areas of weakness.

If Capps somehow manages to develop a consistent second pitch, I think he can be effective. But right now he can't consistently throw a passable slider, and hitters can sit on his flat fastball - thus the high number of hard-hit balls.

Bad long-term move, but if the Twins bring home a title I don't think anyone will care smile

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It was a bad trade, no doubt, but the Twins were in a bad spot because they clearly needed help at the back end of the bullpen. It sucks to give up a blue-chip prospect in exchange for a mediocre reliever, but when you have a legit shot at a title, I guess you do what it takes to address areas of weakness.

If Capps somehow manages to develop a consistent second pitch, I think he can be effective. But right now he can't consistently throw a passable slider, and hitters can sit on his flat fastball - thus the high number of hard-hit balls.

Bad long-term move, but if the Twins bring home a title I don't think anyone will care smile

The bottom line is we gave up a PROSPECT for a player who can help us and has helped us and will help us RIGHT NOW. I don't think folks would have as much issue if it wasn't reported that we declined to give Ramos up for Cliff Lee. We have NO IDEA what was asked for, offered etc, but I guarantee that Ramos was not the sticking point. Capps has a good arm and some nice get up on the fast ball. Andy will work with him to get him to hit corners and develop the second pitch. Capps will be fine..... we are all just spoiled from watching Nathan for the last umpteen years.

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Im no twins expert and therefore I have a question: Rauch was 20 for 24 in save opportunities before we got Capps. What would Joe Nathan have been? 21? 22? Not much of a difference. Right? And one of those blown saves, the twins came back and won, so Rauch got the win. I dont expect Rauch to pitch well now, because he's prolly [PoorWordUsage] he got replaced. And Capps has blown 2 already right? I understand the theory that Rauch should have the 8th and Capps the 9th, and the twins should dominate, but I still dont understand whay Rauch needed to be replaced. I guess the twins just had to make a move and strenghten something so they chose the bullpen. What happens next year when we have Rauch, Capps, and Nathan?? Are they all under contract or not? I dont know......

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What happens next year when we have Rauch, Capps, and Nathan?? Are they all under contract or not? I dont know......

Nathan is signed for next year, ($11.25M) with a club option for $12.5M or a $2M buyout for 2012.

Capps is arbitration elegible for 2011 and 2012 a free agent.

Rauch is a free agent next year.

I think parting with Ramos for Capps had a lot to do with next year as well since Nathan will be coming off Tommy John surgery and Capps is an insurance policy if Nathan doesn't come back at the same level or at all.

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I also thought Rauch was doing a good job, and shouldnt have been replaced, but I am wondering if it wasnt because of Rauch, he did say he would close until Nathan came back, but he didnt want to be a closer. So I think we got Capps to be a closer, and to have Rauch back in his spot he wanted to be in.

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Is it me, or does it seem Rauch isn't as excepting of the set up role as he stated earlier. He got mop up duty yesterday, that can't help the ego either.

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He was the only decent pitcher that came into the game yesterday too.

He got 3 outs and only gave up 1 hit. grin

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Caps looked decent last night. I do agree he does tend to get too much of plate with some of his pitches though!

Still a great trade!

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