Twins get Matt Capps for Ramos

[harvey lee]

This dude should help the BP for sure and give Nathan some extra time to heal next season. Good move.

Now, for this season and going anywhere in the play-offs, TERRIBLE TRADE. When the oposing team is up by 5, what good is a BP pitcher?

We need another good starter to keep us in the game.

We could trade slowey or Blackburn but for what I have no idea.

[B. Amish]

some of you act like thw twins don't know what their own needs are. this is their job. they've hashed out every scenario for the last few weeks and gone over every possible trade. if we could've gotten a starter, i'm sure we would've. it takes two to trade.

[Coach1310]

The problem with trading for a starter is THE OTHER TEAM IS NOT GOING TO WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH Slowey or Blackburn. So we would be giving up multiple prospects to get someone. The two hottest names in our system are Gibson and Hicks and BOTH I would guess are untouchable. I just don't see the value in adding Lily or Myers for multiple prospects. Neither of which greatly improves our stock or our chance to win in the playoffs.

[Born2Fish]

I think the Twins got the best deal they could of gotten. They were not going to give up either Hicks or Gibson, that is pretty clear. And I am sure if they could of gotten a starter they thought could of improved this team, they would of pulled the trigger. But honestly, is Lily or Myers a drastic improvement over what we have and what we would have to give to get them? I personally do not think so. The Twins just went 6-1 on their last road trip. While it was against sub-par competition, the starters did just fine.

[Harmonica Bear]

I like the trade just for the fact your bullpen can never be strong or deep enough IMHO. Could we have got more for Ramos? Probably, but that's hard to say

We may not make another trade before the deadline, but I guarantee our maneuvering isn’t over. Correct if I am wrong (as always), but we didn’t exactly make some blockbuster trade for Pavano and Rausch last year. In some way or fashion weren't they basically claimed off waivers, the team rescinded, and then a woopti-de-doo player exchange (trade) brought them here?

"If you thought that the Indians were done trading just because of a measly deadline, think again.

Per team media relations:

The Cleveland Indians today announced the club has completed a trade with the Minnesota Twins, sending RHP Carl Pavano to Minnesota in exchange for a player to be named. The Indians will receive this player on or before September 1. To take Pavano’s spot on the 25-man roster, the Indians have recalled LHP Rafael Perez from AAA Columbus.

This means that Pavano was in fact waived within the last three days. He made 21 starts for the Tribe this year going 9-8 with a 5.37 ERA, and managed to stay off of the disabled list."

"Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN - The Minnesota Twins announced today that they have acquired righthanded pitcher Jon Rauch from the Arizona Diamondbacks, in exchange for a player to be named later."

Good trades don't always have to be ESPN's top story.

[Dylan33]

It's a great trade to bolster our bullpen....lets think about this logically....3 of our 5 starters can't be expected to go more than 4 innings. Our pen is gonna get tired if they throw 5 innings every 3 out of 5 games.

[DonBo]

Do we have more pressing needs than another closer? Yes, certainly. Did this trade make our team better? Absolutely! How can that be a bad thing?

We have plenty of catchers. Butera and Morales are both fine catchers and very capable of giving Mauer the rest he needs when he needs it.

What this trade does is it lets Rauch do what he does best, that's eat plenty of innings for the bullpen, something he hasn't been able to do as our closer. Our bullpen has been good, but with the overuse most have seen, this trade will allow everyone out there to catch their breath and be better rested for the stretch.

[DonBo]

The other "player to be named" is left-handed pitcher Joe Testa. Testa, a reliever, was signed as a non-drafted free agent in 2008. He began this season at Double-A New Britain, where he was 1-4 with a 8.25 ERA in 21 games. He was moved to Class A Fort Myers, where he went 1-1 with a 3.30 ERA in 15 games. The Twins will also get $500,000 as part of the deal.

[Nick Kuhn]

Any time you can get a solid player for a prospect you'll never use it'll be a good deal. There simply isn't a worthwhile trade out there to make. The remaining pitchers are no more likely to return to winning form than Slowey or Baker are. Remember most of the available pitchers were in the National league, so bringing them to the AL be sure to tack on 1 to the ERA and you'd see that about a 4.50 ERA guy is the best they could do. And with Valencia playing so well it's hard to justify getting a 3rd baseman.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

I like the trade just for the fact your bullpen can never be strong or deep enough IMHO.

True especially with our rotation. We're going to need inning eaters and now Rausch can help fill that role.

I hate giving prospects up as much as anyone but I like the move.

[HookEmHard84]

In Smith we trust.

Right now it does seem a little like we got hosed, only because of how much people value Ramos. As usual, people just need to relax, and trust the people that get paid to do this for their job. The rest of us MLB "eperts" can blab all we want, but they are the only ones who really have all the facts on the story.

Capps is a good player, he will help us. IMO (little as it matters) Lee, Oswalt, or Haren are the kind of players the Twins would need to add to have a chance at maiking it past the 1st round of the playoffs. I dont think we had a shot at any of them though. We will just have to hope that the guys we have start to heat up (like they do almost every year).

[jwmiller33]

Capps was available for nothing this past offseason. Non-tendered by the pirates after posting a 5.80 ERA and a .324 opponents batting average (keep in mind this was in the NL). The Nats signed him for $3.5 mil because they were the only team that would let him remain a closer. Capps reputation as a "experienced closer" basically comes from him mopping up saves on bad teams. Its not like Rauch has done horrible for us, he has converted 21/25 saves with a 3.05 ERA and 27/9 strikeout to walk ratio in 38.1 innings. If he had been given the whole season, he probably would have turned into/been considered an "establish closer" much like Capps. These are some excerpts from Aaron Gleeman's take on this trade.

Take a look at their career numbers:

IP ERA FIP SO/9 BB/9 AVG OBP SLG OPS

Capps 317 3.50 3.80 7.0 1.7 .263 .302 .415 .717

Rauch 402 3.54 3.90 7.5 2.7 .242 .297 .390 .687

Their overall effectiveness is nearly identical across the board. The biggest difference between them is Capps has accumlated saves for 4 seasons while Rauch has been given that role for just 1 season, while Rauch's one season are pretty much in par with Capps career numbers.

I'd hardly suggest the Twins trading Ramos for a reliever who is "slightly better" than Rauch is a sound idea, yet by focusing on the save statistic, the Twins have done just that and many fans will instinctively be on board with the move for an "established closer". What Capps is not is an elite reliever or enough of an upgrade to part with Ramos.

Capps is arbitration eligible next year and the Twins essentially traded Ramos and Vesta for 1.5 seasons of Capps. Unfortunately part of his inflated perceived value includes his likely price-tag in arbitration, which is sure to rise from this year's $3.5 million salary to over $5 million (and perhaps well over $5 million) thanks to those same shiny-looking save totals. Next season the Twins will pay a premium for a quality setup man they perceive as something more because of a reliance on a flawed statistic and they gave up a good catching prospect for the right do that.

In fairness, Ramos' value is at an all time low right now. His historic debut caused the Twins fans who don't know any better to assume that he was destined for stardom and his subsequent struggles at Triple-A have exposed him as a good but not great prospect. However, he still projects as a good defender behind the plate and a 22-year-old being overmatched in his first experience at Triple-A is far from disastrous.

I'm not convinced that Ramos will become a star, but the possibility certainly exists and at the very least he looks capable of developing into a starting-caliber catcher for many years. Joe Mauer's presence meant Ramos had little shot to be that starting-caliber catcher in Minnesota, but that doesn't mean the Twins needed to deal him immediately or when his value was at an all-time low or for an underwhelming return like Capps.

In the Twins' minds they just traded him for an "All-Star closer." In reality they traded Ramos for a setup-caliber reliever who accumulated saves on bad teams and is thus overrated and soon overpaid. Among the 93 pitchers who've logged 150-plus relief innings in the past three calendar years, Capps ranks 38th in xFIP, 49th in FIP, 50th in ERA, 61st in strikeout rate, and 85th in opponents' average.

The Twins just paid a premium for a guy whose perceived value and ability are much higher than his actual value and ability solely because of his role and save total. Capps is a good reliever, but the Twins paid for a great reliever and did so for all the wrong reasons.

[DonBo]

Boy, will Billy ever be embarrased by his ideotic trade after he reads that. I'm sure he never knew ANY of those stats. Bet he had no idea what a stiff Capps is. (please place heavily sarcastic face here)

[Z-520]

I guess I don't see what the difference is if you make a save for a good team or a bad team. I think the criteria is the same, and your still pitching against Major League hitters. If anything it would be tougher to get a save on a bad team because your defense is probably not as good.

[Scott K]

Are we assuming Capps will be taking over the closer role, or have the Twins announced he will be our closer? Could he be the set up man? I dont know if it makes much sense to get a closer, that is pretty much the same caliber as we have now.

I know in the beginning of the season Rauch said he didnt want to be a closer, but would til Nathan came back, maybe Rauch doesnt want to close anymore, and that is why they they went after Capps?

Sorry, I am just trying to figure out the reasoning behind, getting Capps, over a starting pitcher.

I realize our relievers have been overworked, and need some help, but the reason that is, is because our starters just arent getting their jobs done.

[PierBridge]

Of course Capps will be the closer.

Acquiring starting pitching is nearly impossible and 95 percent of the teams fail in there attempt to do so.

[jwmiller33]

well according to someone else's logic previously in this thread, you have to "add at least 1 run" to the ERA of a NL pitcher to get comparison to the AL.

regardless, i've stressed my opinion enough. when the twins get hosed in the playoffs (if we even make it there is in question) because we dont have enough starting pitching, i am going to say "i told you so". pavano's deal is up after this year and we are probably not going to resign him because his value has gone thru the roof (in terms of twins dollars) in his past 1.5 seasons with the twins. we are going to have to pay A LOT to keep him if we want to resign him, and he is going to be looking for a multiple year deal at that. there are many teams who are going to want him and take a stab at him in free agency

with pavano most likely leaving after this year, our rotation will be in shambles. unless blackburn and slowey have miraculous offseasons and somehow "find" themselves, its going to be touch to be competitive next year.

liriano and pavano aren't going to win it all for us this year and some of you seem to think having a good bullpen is much more important than having a good rotation. the bullpen getting "holds" and "saves" is completely irrelevant if the starting pitchers hand the games over to them with us losing by 5 runs.

[mrklean]

will we have capps this year and next? Whats his contract look like?

[jwmiller33]

I guess I don't see what the difference is if you make a save for a good team or a bad team. I think the criteria is the same, and your still pitching against Major League hitters. If anything it would be tougher to get a save on a bad team because your defense is probably not as good.

what i was trying to say here is that capps wouldnt be good enough to be a closer on a "good team". he was non tendered by the PIRATES and the only team that would sign him was a Nats. i think there is a reason he wasnt signed by a "good team" in his time in the majors

It will be interesting to see how he adapts to coming to the AL after spending his whole career in the NL.

[jwmiller33]

will we have capps this year and next? Whats his contract look like?

[CodyDawg]

How do you know that Nats are the only team that would sign him? Do you know all of the offers he had or didnt have?

I think the twins upgraded 2 positions with this trade. I think they upgraded the closer position somewhat....Rauch was just plain scary lately. Then Rauch in a setup role upgrades that position as well. the Twins have a good record with bringing in pitchers so i am gonna give theme the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I dont know this as fact, but I just dont think there were any good moves out there for a SP. It is easy to say that is what we need and should have done, but it just doesnt work that way in reality.

[Big Tom]

I'm kind of on the fence on this one. Starting Pitcher was clearly the need. I'm glad we didn't give up the kitty for Lee or Oswalt though. 3 months for our best prospects or $16M a year next season aren't good options.

The Twins have seen the need for a good closer all the way back to Reardon. Nathan is too iffy for next year, so this addresses that somewhat. A deeper relieving corps allows for an early hook when Crapburn, Slowly or Faker don't have it.

Beyond Ramos first couple games up, I'm not really sure he's all that. Morales hit much better in his time here last season and was a good pitch hitting option.

[jwmiller33]

i cant argue with you guys on the fact that this trade made our bullpen better. it did! i will admit that. but, its not like rauch was losing tons of games for us. rauch is 21 for 25 in save opps this year (84%) while capps is 26 for 30 (86%). factor in the difference in the AL and NL and they are converting about the same perccentage of saves. in my opinion, a closer converting 84% of saves in the AL central is doing better than a closer converting 86% of saves in the NL east. but we are just splitting hairs here. i wonder who we will be moving off our 25 man roster as a result of adding capps... anyone know?

nonetheless, our bullpen is much better because of this. however, i still think our rotation is going to be our achilles heel come crunch time. it doesn't matter how good your bullpen is if your starting pitcher hands them a 5 run deficit.

and yes, sometimes GMs don't make the best decisions.. look at what the phillies just did this year. they acquired cliff lee around this time last year for their playoff run. then the phillies go and trade for roy halladay this offseason. they had to give up some prospects in order to get halladay in that deal. the phillies GM was worried about the hit his franchise took in that trade by having to send those prospects away to get halladay, so as a result, he traded cliff lee away to the mariners to "re stock" on prospects. his reasoning was, lee only had 1 yr left on contract and they didnt think they would be able to resign him. so instead of losing him to free agency, he "cashed in" on lee for prospects.

now, flash forward to this year, the phillies are again, in the same position as they were last year, looking to acquire a playoff caliber SP to make that run into the playoffs. what do they do? they send more high level prospects to houston to get ROY OSWALT....

moral of this story is, what the phillies GM didnt really make sense. i'm not saying i know everything that happened behind the scenes, i just know as much as the average fan can find out on baseball websites. i do however love analyzing these trades from all aspects of the game, and the phillies front office is getting a lot of second guessing from hardcore phillies fans because they could have kept cliff lee and instead they have roy oswalt.

i feel like everybody thinks the twins front office knows exactly what to do and they never make mistakes... look at some of their past free agent signings and trades from the past and how did they turn out?

ramon ortiz

sidney ponson

trading johan santana for carlos gomez, phillip humber, mulvey and guerra.

boof bonser,

basically GIVING craig breslow away by optioning him down to the minors for sean henn!?

adam everett

craig monroe

livan hernandez

rondell white

jeff cirillo

just to name a few... so those of you who think bill smith and the higher ups in the twins organization never make mistakes, well just look at our track record. we have a history or making not so favorable trades and free agent signings.

[Z-520]

A history of making sub par moves with a subpar budget. As a GM no one expects you to be perfect but with what Bill Smith has had to work with how can you question his moves. I'm not saying he's perfect but come on, It's not like he's had a ton of money to throw around to free agents.

[zepman]

Capps has got to feel great about his move to the Twins...he's actually pitching with something on the line now.

[SledNeck]

Capps has serious intimidation factor

[jwmiller33]

Capps has serious intimidation factor

and the tattooed, 6'11 Rauch didnt?

[solbes]

I was at the game last night; he got a pretty good ovation from the crowd on entering the field. Still singing "The Final Coundown" in my head.

[Duffman]

"The Final Coundown"

Oh gawd, now I don't like him. And I was just about to give him some praise.

[genegodawa]

For those of us drooling over SP's, when you can't get them, you need good ones in the BPen.