Pretty Please Gardy?????

[Big Dave2]

Funny how you only put into NUMBERS the stats that favor Cuddy or are almost the same in favor of Mauer...... someone could easily write...

Joe Mauer is a far superior hitter to Michael Cuddyer regarding average, but is basically the same regarding other offensive statistics.

In regards to Mauer... there are a lot of reasons he is getting PAID..

#1. He is the hometown boy and when it comes to marketing that is a HUGE factor.

#2. Having him on the Twins results in a LOT of $$$ regarding jerseys, team apparel, merchandise etc...

#3. As far as super stars go he is as solid and squeaky clean as they come.

#4. He plays a position where world class hitting and offensive skills are very rare.... His abilities at his position can't even be discussed except when mentioning some all time greats... no catcher in the majors even comes close to him... and to use the same arguement vs. Cuddy... Right fielders with stats like his are kind of a dime a dozen

#5 And as far as stats go... IF you locked up Cuddy for the same $$$ for the next how many years, what would the stats look like. It is easy to look at just one year and say this or that, but the TERM of the contract is pretty important in this case

The reason I used those certain stats are because they are the big ones. They are the ones that actually tell the story. I stated right in my post that Joe Mauer had a superior batting average, that is obvious. What I wanted people to understand is the real difference between a .276 BA and a .365 BA. It is 30 hits in 523 ABs for Mauer. The real numbers that actually show production are Runs scored and RBI which are almost identicle in both players. Please tell me what stats am I leaving out that I should have included? Please don't bring up more averages because that is not as true of an indicator as these stats are. If a guy plays in one game and goes 2 for 4 for a .500 average does that make that player more valuable to the team than Joe Mauer? I don't think anyone would say yes so averages are not the answer. Cuddyer played in 15 more games than Joe last season and had 65 more at bats. That alone makes him a valuable player.

As far as your bullet points above go, I get it that he is a squeaky clean hometown boy makes good and thats the main reason for the contract but we were talking about player production only and the reason why some members of this board want to kick Michael Cuddyer to the curb even though his production is not that far off from the baby jesus himself.

[SledNeck]

Joe Mauer is the best catcher in baseball.

Cuddy isn't even the best OF on the Twins.

[Stratosman]

Perfectly stated right there!

[Harmonica Bear]

With Mauer and Morneau batting in front of anybody, run production better be good (if not great).

[Big Dave2]

Joe Mauer is the best catcher in baseball.

Cuddy isn't even the best OF on the Twins.

You can no longer just compare Joe Mauer to other catchers. He now needs to be compared to the BEST players in the league with a contract like his.

[JacobMHD]

Why can Joe no longer be compared to other catchers?????

Joe's contributions to the team are greater than that of some high paid third baseman or shortstop. He is involved in every pitch during the games he plays. If you want to compare Joe to AROID or JETER go ahead, but they don't contribute to the team like Joe does.

[Big Dave2]

Why can Joe no longer be compared to other catchers?????

Joe's contributions to the team are greater than that of some high paid third baseman or shortstop. He is involved in every pitch during the games he plays. If you want to compare Joe to AROID or JETER go ahead, but they don't contribute to the team like Joe does.

because Joe is now making an absurd amount of money that puts him in the class with the best players in the league.

If A-Rod and Jeter don't contribute to thier team as much as Mauer does then how come the Yankees humiliated the Twins in the Playoffs and went on to win the world series?

[Big Dave2]

Some could even argue that Mauer because of being a catcher contributes to his team even less than a shortstop or 3rd baseman. Joe played 15 less games last year than some of the other starters on the Twins roster. If your team loses the division by 1 or 2 games wouldn't it be likely that if your best offensive player could have played an extra 15 games that he might have helped you win 1 or 2 of them?

[PierBridge]

Quote:

He should probably do it ONE time before we start talking about perennial!

True. I'm just hoping for it to happen. The trade thus far for Delmon has been a disaster of epic proportions until the brief glimmer of hope lately so I'm trying to look on the potential positive side.

But yeah you're right.

[Coach1310]

If A-Rod and Jeter don't contribute to thier team as much as Mauer does then how come the Yankees humiliated the Twins in the Playoffs and went on to win the world series?

First off... this point is completely laughable.... you are now saying Mauer contributes MORE to a team by himself than 2 first ballot hall of famers do... NO PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL can do that....

Secondly.... I think it is pretty to compare the rosters and show that New York's roster was more talented, deeper and had a better pitching staff. On paper, every GM in the league would have taken the Yankees roster in that series...

Lastly.... Since we are all arm chair geniuses, we should be able to figure it out, but if you polled every GM in baseball and said, you can have Mauer and his NEW contract OR all of Cuddy's current contract meaning he starts his contract over today.... NOBODY would say that Cuddy's is a better contract.... I would say the VALUE lies in what a club is willing to pay a player for their services and obviously the Twins along with the rest of baseball find Joe's services more valuable...

[Coach1310]

True. I'm just hoping for it to happen. The trade thus far for Delmon has been a disaster of epic proportions until the brief glimmer of hope lately so I'm trying to look on the potential positive side.

But yeah you're right.

I understand that so far the trade hasn't been what we hoped, BUT for the most part you can't fairly evaluate the trade until all parts are done with the respective teams. If Delmon turns into what we hope, I can't say the trade is laughable, but once again we are talking IF...

Garza was leaving soon anyway... he didn't like the way the Twins handle pitchers so we were getting something for him instead of losing him outright. The only issue I had and still do with the trade was Bartlett... We still haven't completely solved our SS issue since he left and he has been pretty darn good for the Rays... oh I forgot, we got Harris.. nevermind

[Big Dave2]

First off... this point is completely laughable.... you are now saying Mauer contributes MORE to a team by himself than 2 first ballot hall of famers do... NO PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL can do that....

...

I wasn't saying that, in fact I was saying the complete opposite.

[JacobMHD]

Backspace

[Coach1310]

I wasn't saying that, in fact I was saying the complete opposite.

Sorry Dave, misunderstood your point.

[SledNeck]

.310 .346 .507

booyah!

[Scott K]

Youngs got it going now, even Gardy has to start thinking its time to move him upto the 2-5 spot.

[PierBridge]

Sounds reasonable......just not yet Grass-hopper...

Problem is just about everybody ahead of him is slumping a bit.

[SledNeck]

not too many people left who still want to have cuddy batting 5th, hes garbage right now

[greebs]

Some could even argue that Mauer because of being a catcher contributes to his team even less than a shortstop or 3rd baseman. Joe played 15 less games last year than some of the other starters on the Twins roster. If your team loses the division by 1 or 2 games wouldn't it be likely that if your best offensive player could have played an extra 15 games that he might have helped you win 1 or 2 of them?

you could also argue that Mauer having non-catcher type hitting ability allows the team to get by with a piranha type player to play 3b which is traditionally a player that has some punch with the bat plus he's a player that has value to the owners of the team have profitable years. Like every job, it comes down to what an employee's value is to the employer more than it is how hard one works.

by our common working man standards there's no way hardly any professional sports athlete deserve what they get paid. next year Joe will get paid almost $150,000 each and every game of the season whether he even plays or not. Even if he bats .600 for the season and hits 50 homers, he's still grossly overpaid by common man standards. Doubt there's too many of us that make $150k or even close to that in an entire year. I'd say Mauer is getting paid what he's getting paid for the sole reason that it kept the yankees from paying him probably an even higher amount and it kept him on the team.

[SledNeck]

Cuddy might need glasses. That strikeout with mauer and morneau on was UGLY

[Big Dave2]

you could also argue that Mauer having non-catcher type hitting ability allows the team to get by with a piranha type player to play 3b which is traditionally a player that has some punch with the bat plus he's a player that has value to the owners of the team have profitable years. Like every job, it comes down to what an employee's value is to the employer more than it is how hard one works.

by our common working man standards there's no way hardly any professional sports athlete deserve what they get paid. next year Joe will get paid almost $150,000 each and every game of the season whether he even plays or not. Even if he bats .600 for the season and hits 50 homers, he's still grossly overpaid by common man standards. Doubt there's too many of us that make $150k or even close to that in an entire year. I'd say Mauer is getting paid what he's getting paid for the sole reason that it kept the yankees from paying him probably an even higher amount and it kept him on the team.

I certainly don't disagree with any of what you said, I understand why great players get paid what they do but the argument started out comparing different players statistically and the stats show that Cuddyer's offensive numbers are not all that far behind the best hitter in the game.

I also understand that catcher is not normally an offensive minded position but what I am saying is that having a big money catcher may be a detriment in some ways because there are about 15 or so games that he cant help your team that a good 3rd baseman for instance could. 15 games might not sound like much over the course of a season but if your team misses out on the playoffs by 1 or 2 games you would have to think that a marquee all star player may have helped you win 1 or 2 of those games.

[PierBridge]

That'd what's great about baseball Dave you just never know what to expect or who's going to come through. Sometimes its the stars sometimes it's others.

Who woulda thunk Michael Cuddyer would be the BEST hitter in MLB baseball last year during the most important time of the year and carry us to the play-offs...

Insert junior-high-ish imature one line cheap shot from Sledneck here................................ LOL!

[Coach1310]

[quote=PierBridge

Who woulda thunk Michael Cuddyer would be the BEST hitter in MLB baseball last year during the most important time of the year and carry us to the play-offs...

[SledNeck]

That'd what's great about baseball Dave you just never know what to expect or who's going to come through. Sometimes its the stars sometimes it's others.

Who woulda thunk Michael Cuddyer would be the BEST hitter in MLB baseball last year during the most important time of the year and carry us to the play-offs...

Insert junior-high-ish imature one line cheap shot from Sledneck here................................ LOL!

best hitter?

Kubel had a better season

[Big Dave2]

best hitter?

Kubel had a better season

How do you figure?

Cuddy scored 20 more runs than Kubel.

Cuddy had more hits, more triples and more HRs than Kubel.

They had almost the same amount of doubles.

Kubel had only 9 more RBI despite batting in the cleanup spot.

Cuddy also played in the most number of games of any Twins Player, now thats Value!

[SledNeck]

How do you figure?

Cuddy scored 20 more runs than Kubel.

Cuddy had more hits, more triples and more HRs than Kubel.

They had almost the same amount of doubles.

Kubel had only 9 more RBI despite batting in the cleanup spot.

Cuddy also played in the most number of games of any Twins Player, now thats Value!

Kubel= much higher BA + OBP less strike outs

If Cuddy's season was so stellar, you figure he wouldnt have the 4 best statistical season on the Twins in 2009

[Big Dave2]

Averages are meaningless when determining the value of a player. There are guys that had 2 at bats for the season and batted 1 for 2 for a .500 average. Does that mean said player had a better year than Joe Mauer?

The numbers above don't lie about production.

[greebs]

no doubt cuddy had a great september last year. what has happened to him since then? not sure if it's true but someone on star trib site posted that he's got the worst risp averages in all of mlb. not sure where you'd find that kind of a stat but I believe that he as the worst on the twins for averages with risp other than those couple players who haven't batted many times yet yet gardy trots him out there every night in the same lineup spot.

it's getting close the the point where not only should he not be batting 5th but you also have to wonder why he even plays against right handed pitchers every game. one could make the argument that kubel should play left and thome dh whenever they face rh pitching until he starts picking it up. putting him at 3b isn't all that great right now either because his batting is no better than the other piranha options they have on the roster and the piranhas play better defense.

[Coach1310]

no doubt cuddy had a great september last year. what has happened to him since then? not sure if it's true but someone on star trib site posted that he's got the worst risp averages in all of mlb. not sure where you'd find that kind of a stat but I believe that he as the worst on the twins for averages with risp other than those couple players who haven't batted many times yet yet gardy trots him out there every night in the same lineup spot.

it's getting close the the point where not only should he not be batting 5th but you also have to wonder why he even plays against right handed pitchers every game. one could make the argument that kubel should play left and thome dh whenever they face rh pitching until he starts picking it up. putting him at 3b isn't all that great right now either because his batting is no better than the other piranha options they have on the roster and the piranhas play better defense.

I'm with you on this one. I've been telling people this for a month. Not so much because I don't want Cuddy in there, but because Thome needs more AB's..... I know they said he was coming as just a pinch hitter, but he needs some more at bats....

[SledNeck]

no doubt cuddy had a great september last year. what has happened to him since then? not sure if it's true but someone on star trib site posted that he's got the worst risp averages in all of mlb. not sure where you'd find that kind of a stat but I believe that he as the worst on the twins for averages with risp other than those couple players who haven't batted many times yet yet gardy trots him out there every night in the same lineup spot.

it's getting close the the point where not only should he not be batting 5th but you also have to wonder why he even plays against right handed pitchers every game. one could make the argument that kubel should play left and thome dh whenever they face rh pitching until he starts picking it up. putting him at 3b isn't all that great right now either because his batting is no better than the other piranha options they have on the roster and the piranhas play better defense.

Great post. Another person that GETS IT.

Seems to be we are in the majority.