Kamloops Production Shift

[Ross Pearson]

This topic is about MN DNR's plan to swith the majority of Kamloops rainbow trout production from the French River Hatchery to the Spire Valley Hatchery. Currently most of the Lake Superior plant takes place in July which has yielded the best returns to the French River of around 3% when they are planted around the 9-10 inch size. June stocking has yields of 1% or less. Assessment data on steelhead smolt stocking in May indicates returns of only around .5%. Without the inherent French River imprinting, Spire Valley kamloops will need to be planted at about 5.5 inches in May which keeps them "bite-size" for lake trout predation for a long time until the are able to grow into the mid teens in size. And, since they are primarily imprinted to Spire Valley they may not return to the stream they are planted in at all causing straying and steelhead hybridization problems elsewhere. As a result there is the expectation of a lesser total return and consequently higher cost for angler-caught fish with Spire Valley production. The change has been directed by the top management positions of the DNR to save money on the production of fish to plant and it will save on production costs. It appears there will be far fewer fish for us to catch, however, as a consequence. So, I and others have put out a petition urging legislators and fisheries management to find the funds necessary to keep all Kamloops production for Lake Superior at the French River Hatchery. Kamloops fishermen who are concerned are urged to contact both their own legislators, the acting Fisheries Chief, the Director of Fish and Wildlife, and the DNR Commissioner. The future of the Kamloops fishery is at stake. Thank you, Ross Pearson.

[Surface Tension]

Welcome to HSO Ross.

If that is to happen they'll have to fix the new geo-thermo water heater that never worked and was to save us a lot of money.

[leech~~]

Welcome to HSO Ross.

If that is to happen they'll have to fix the new geo-thermo water heater that never worked and was to save us a lot of money.

If that thing was only put in a short time ago but never really work since it was put in, isn't there any kind of warranty on the work done! It seems like a pretty light argument! Where can we sign this petition and I'll put in a few bucks to a fishermans fund to get the %%$ thing fixed!

[Riverratpete]

Really Really hope thats not the reason for the shift in production location. If it is the reason...how lame is that! I'll sign and send.

[Steve Foss]

Thanks for posting that, Ross. And welcome. Great to see you here!

[Ross Pearson]

The petition can be signed at Marine General, Fisherman's Corner, Great Lakes Fly Shop, or catch me when I'm out on shore. Perhaps more importantly legislators and the very top MN DNR officials need to hear from fishermen on the issue(s). Thanks again, Ross Pearson.

[leech~~]

The petition can be signed at Marine General, Fisherman's Corner, Great Lakes Fly Shop, or catch me when I'm out on shore. Perhaps more importantly legislators and the very top MN DNR officials need to hear from fishermen on the issue(s). Thanks again, Ross Pearson.

Ross, can you find a way to put it on line some how so more can put their names on it without having to try and track you down and boughter you when your pulling in what ever Loopers are left!

[Northdrifter08]

MN Fisheries is something else.... I don't blame the people out in the field doing the work, I blame the paper pushers who look for a quick fix...

Fish mean tourist... tourist mean money... money for the local economy.. the state... and so on...

So in order to fix the DNR Fisheries budget downfalls let's take away the one N. Shore River fish that is a big draw throughout the winter and spring...

I guess I'm just preaching on def ears...

[JBMasterAngler]

Unfortunately I am convinced that the lake superior kamloops are gonna go the way of the passenger pigeon I think the fisheries dept is doing all this jumping around so that they can later justify the cancellation of looper stocking.

I personally have never caught one, but would really like to someday. However (and I know this might anger some), I won't lose any sleep if they stop the stocking...I'd be perfectly OK with just catching lake trout.

Kinda' sucks that the lake can't sustain the good fish like loopers, chinooks, and even atlantic salmon, yet the sea lamprey, ruffe, and gobies can run rampant! Oh well.

[JAR JAR]

I signed the petition a couple of weeks ago at Marine General. I know alot of you shop there so lets get this done.

Jar Jar

[BEAST]

5,000,000 people in MN, How many fish loopers, How many of those people are locals? Percentage of fish currently returning, Current economic conditions! Less funding is understandable! We can be thankful their not completely abandoning the project - Don't get me wrong I have been down there fishing quite a bit recently - the looper is not a money maker

[leech~~]

5,000,000 people in MN, How many fish loopers, How many of those people are locals? Percentage of fish currently returning, Current economic conditions! Less funding is understandable! We can be thankful their not completely abandoning the project - Don't get me wrong I have been down there fishing quite a bit recently - the looper is not a money maker

BEAST, look they take my tax money and give it away to all kinds of worthless projects and people around the world! So, if they take a few more bucks so I can injoy a great time with the money I do earn on one of the greatest lakes in the world! So be it!

[Steve Foss]

The issue as I see it with all stocking programs is how much money the resulting fishery brings into the local economy. If you spend $50,000 annually for a specific stocking program and that fishery brings $75,000 annually in increased revenue for local businesses (the taxed portion of which, of course, goes to the state), then it's penny wise but pound foolish to eliminate the stocking.

I know they aren't talking about eliminating looper stocking, so the question really in my mind becomes how much money they'll save by switching to a different hatchery than the French, and that needs to be weighed against how far down the looper fishery will go because of poor recruitment due smaller size of stocked fish. If the fishery goes to he!! in a handbasket because of the change, then not nearly as many people will come and spend their money along the North Shore for what has grown into quite a popular little put-grow-and-take stocking program.

If you tear it down, they'll no longer come, to reverse the old saying from Field of Dreams.

So to me, switching hatcheries in order to save money will be a TRUE waste of money if the fish they stock have a very low survival rate. That's just throwing good money after bad.

And if the stocked fish have not imprinted on the French, they will disperse all over Lake Superior and eventually perhaps into other Great Lakes, which will cause other types of problems such as potential interbreeding with steelhead, as Ross mentioned.

I'm sensitive to this because the DNR is planning to eliminate laker stocking in Burntside Lake, my home lake and a lake trout fishery I know very well and care about very much. And for the same reason, to save some thousands of dollars every other year. If the Burntside laker fishery falls apart over time, there goes a lot of money being injected into the local economy.

[biff]

Well said steve.

There are a lot of angler hours put in over the year by anglers after kamloops...moreso when the numbers are good. By trying to save money stocking earlier and switching hacheries they are losing money by fewer fish returning and fewer anglers returning after them spending fewer dollars.

[BEAST]

I guess this thread could very well be attached to the one in (Miscellaneous) Outdoor discussion - skippers kid started

[Northdrifter08]

For the people that don't think this program is worth saving.. take a look at what a sucessful stream stooking program does to the local economy, take a ride over to Lake Michigan and see the numbers of people fishing from all over the Midwest.... Maybe the looper program is a program that will go by the wayside, so why don't they expand the Steelhead stooking program? I see a higher return of Steelhead coming into the rivers... And then maybe... as Ive seen before... letting an angler keep 1 a day... I guess I'm just remembering the "old" days when the Stewart River was full of fish and people...

I guess as the numbers of fish decline so will the fisherpeople and so will the the license money... If you haven't noticed when your fishing the rivers in the spring you don't see too many young fisherman out there.... I think people of the younger generation would be raising some questions about the future of the North Shore!!!?????

What are the DNR's Plans for this fishery?

[BEAST]

successful is the key word

[End of the Line]

I am no expert on the stocking programs of the fish that go into Lake Superior each year. But I do know this, every year me a several other people I know travel to Lake Michigan for fishing Steelhead and Kings & Cohos. I am set for at least 2 trips this year again and probably 4. Take that dollar amount times 3 more of the guys I am going with just in my group. Lots of gas, hotel, tackle, lauching fees, dockage, beer and pizza etc... we spend each year out there. I would much, much rather walk out my door and down to my boat here in the harbor to spend my time and money, but we just don't have that here. If we did..........how many MN & WI residents that go to Algoma, Kewaunee, Bailey's harbor, etc would come to Duluth and alike? I think probably most would rather come here and use the gas money they save to spend it on more trips to the area. I like the Lake trout, but put a steelhead or a King on my line to keep me coming back!

I signed the form at Marine General for both Kamploops and Chinooks by the WLSTA.

[JBMasterAngler]

DNR's plan for the fishery is to restore native fish. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the only steelhead that are stocked are provided from private funding. DNR is more interested in maintaining the lake trout, and restoring the brook trout.

I just checked some stocking records for 2009 and found a small number of lake superior tribs that were stocked with rainbows (lester, french, talmadge, gooseberry, and baptism). But the records didn't indicate whether they were steelhead or loopers, DNR or privately funded, upper or lower rivers.

[Ross Pearson]

Most of the streams on the Mn Northshore that get assessed for steelhead juveniles and spring creel census for adult steelhead catch are planted above barrier every other year with steelhead fry coming from a captive brood stock of steelhead at the French River Hatchery. LSSA(Lake Superior Steelhead Association) donates $40,000 per year to benefit steelhead restoration but Lake Superior Fisheries spends about $200,000 annually on steelhead fry planting. The above barrier planting greatly increases rearing habitat as there is only about 15 miles total excluding the Knife(70 miles) below natural waterfall barriers. I believe without this continued planting the steelhead population on the North Shore would decline. You can check these things out by viewing the rainbow chapter of the Lake Superior Management Plan. I was part of the Advisory Group for those plans. Theres lots of information on how the Mn waters of Lake Superior are managed. Ross Pearson.

[Nate M]

There are going to be a lot of angry fishermen -including myself- if they dnr doesn't get their act together on the looper program. The last few years there has been fewer and fewer fish showing up. It seems as if they care more about saving a few bucks than making a legit attempt to bring back the loopers. If this new plan goes into effect it will make things significantly worse.

[fatfinger]

we may be in for more trouble with the gov's new budget cuts.his proposal would reduce the the DNR's general fund by $859,000 in fiscal year 2010 & by $1.76 million for fiscal year 2011.it would also shift money from natural resources fund to the general fun to the tune of $97,000 in 2010 & $1.9 million in 2011.OUCH! theres an article about it in feb 19 edition of outdoor news.

is there any other way we can help this or any other fisheries with, say like, volunteer work or bakesales?maybe not bake sales but you know.ill sign the petition tomoro.is there any signs at rivers or anywhere to educate people about whats goin on?or to inform fisherman who dont read this forum about the petition?

[JoshM]

I heard that they are going to eliminate the french river hatchery all together within 5 years.I would think they would try some kind of trial run the next couple years before they would completely shift everything over to the other hatchery.Maybe they are hoping it is going to fail. I would be very disappointed if our loopers disappear!

[fatfinger]

any fishery project failing is not good news.why would they move it?is the french hatchery old & out-dated?is the "new" site brand new - never used or just been run in tandem w/the french?sounds like a silly move to me but ill bet theres more to it. i hope there is sound reasoning anyway.guess all we can do is hope, sign petitions & voice our ideas/opinions to dnr.a pro-active stance now is better than negative griping later.

[Ross Pearson]

The French River Hatchery pumps and at times has to heat water from a Lake Superior intake pipe making it more expensive to operate than other state coldwater hatcheries using wells that provide water at more favorable temperatures for fish culture. Fisheries estimates annual savings will be $70,000 intially from the shift to Spire Valley and more savings as staff retire at the French River Hatchery. However assessment data indicate that on the angler-caught fish basis that fishermen are most interested in, French River production is the most cost effective. This is because French River-produced Kamloops can be planted at a bigger size(9-10 inches) and during the July window of opportunity for best returns(averaging around 3%). Kamloops from any other hatchery will need to be stocked in May at pre-smolt size(5.5 inches) because imprinting to the intended rivers requires these conditions. Past data on Kamloops, steelhead, and chinooks indicate that survival for returns under this situation will be approaching zero. Spire Valley Kamloops production will make the Kamloops Program ineffective! Outdoor News and the Duluth News Tribune have run stories on the change. The coldwater programs have never paid for themselves with license fee revenues alone. In that respect we've been getting a real bargain and we need to pay more if we want these opportunities to continue. The top level of DNR has chosen this time to start making cuts and an effective Kamloops Program as one of the expendable areas to change. Let your legislators and the DNR commissioner know what you value! Ross Pearson-Kamloops Advocates Representative.

[Ross Pearson]

This is an update on the Kamloops production shift to the Spire Valley Hatchery. In December members of MN DNR fisheries met with some of the representatives of the Rainbow Trout Advisory Group to talk about changes for Lake Superior rainbow trout management. For 2011 and 2012, Fisheries has decided to bring the Spire Valley pre-smolt kamloops back to the French River Hatchery for imprinting and grow-out to smolts in the French River Hatchery prior to July planting in Lake Superior. This will be similar to the program of the past and much better for returns than planting them as pre-smolt sized fish (for the steelhead population Fisheries has consistently found adult returns from smolts to be 30 to 40 times better than returns from pre-smolts). Fisheries is not saying what will happen for the French River Hatchery and the dependent kamloops and steelhead programs beyond the 2012 production. Staffing and programs have already seen dramatic cuts in recent years and without license fee increases, the agency will have to make further reductions soon. If anglers value these programs, they should contact MN state legislators encouraging them to raise license fees to insure that present operations can continue. Ross Pearson-Kamloops Advocates.

[reinhard1]

i will contact my rep and encourage her to seek a licence fee increase. also this fee increase should go 100% to the dnr for specified purposes and this being one of them. good luck.

[Jim Almquist]

Thanks for the heads up Ross. It would be nice to see the Loopers come back in numbers like we had in the late 90s when you would actually catch one every now and then

I will be making a call !

[Northlander]

Nice to see you posting some good info here Ross. I signed at the General.

[Northlander]

I guess this thread could very well be attached to the one in (Miscellaneous) Outdoor discussion - skippers kid started

Beast I can not find any one started by Skipperskid in the outdoors discussions. What page was it on I only went back 7 or 8.