My public land conibears, please read

[mn_archer]

First off, lets keep this civil. There is a chance here to discuss our concerns and you know this topic will get locked if it gets out of hand, so easy does it.

My name is Michael O'Brien and I am from Outing. It was my conibear that a felow member sprung with a stick and was refered to in the locked thread. First of all, there was no phesant used for bait. I only use beaver or muskrat carcasses for bait. I do, however sometimes use a phesant wing hanging near the set as an attractor. The wing in question is at least 2 years old and has been laying in the bottom of my freezer for that long. there can't be much smell left on it.

The set in question was 100% legal and 100% ethical. I have never caught a dog in a conibear and this type of box is designed specifically not to catch a dog. In fact, I have never heard of a dog getting caught in this type of box.

When I checked my set and saw he pulled the wing down and put a stick in it I pulled the trap. Sure, I could have reset it and been perfectly legal but what was the point? I am not out there trying to make enemies, but you need to realize that there are laws and there are better ways to go about things. I spoke with the CO and trap tampering is a misdemeanor and a $150 fine. I am not looking to press this issue and am simply hoping to be able to educate some of you about conibears and trapping.

I have been trapping for more than 25 years and am willing to answer any and all questions and if I can't answer it I can get you the answer.

I think trappers get a bad name because most people are completly clueless or misinformed about trapping because they've never done it and have never been interested in it. We don't use traps with teeth anymore, and conibears aren't the evil weapons of mass destruction you might think.

If your dog did happen to get in a conibear and you were there and remained calm, you can get it out alive. You just need to know how to set one. In the MN hunting and trapping regs there is a decent picture and diagram on how to set a conibear. Basically, a 220 sized trap will have 2 springs and those springs are what is applying the pressure to the jaws. You need to depress eacy spring seperately and hook the safety catch. Do one, then the other. With both hands this can be done easily.

Lets keep this discussion going, but keep it clean. We are all sportsmen here and we need eachother. Divided we fall-

michael

[AlwysFshn]

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[HunterLee]

Just read this on the other thread. Good stuff. Thankfully in my area I don't have alot of people messing with stuff.

People that hunt and fish should read all the laws or at least look them up before acting.

I have had my dog in two different conibears. Both time it was a leg, and my trap, I calmed her down and got it off of her and she was no worse for the wear even though one was a Belise 220.

Once again good read and welcome to the sit.

[walleyes12]

Great Post!!! Thank you for the update

[stretcher]

Glad to see you on here Michael. I couldn't agree with you more we all need to work with each other and not be devided. A little knowledge of everyone's sport will go a long way. Everyone should at least have a copy of the rules in the can. Since that's when we do our best thinking anyway! LOL

Chad

[jparrucci]

Do places like FF or anywhere sell traps that somebody like myself could play around with and learn how to quickly release? I am still under the assumption that if a smaller dog like my 37 lb brittany gets snapped by one of these, it is over regardless. If I am wrong, please my all means correct me. It is one thing if the dog gets stuck and has to deal with some short lived pain that he will get over, that to me isn't a very big deal. I have been of the understanding that it is going to be a good chance of immediate death for a smaller dog.

[Flying_Fort]

Yes, FF and the GM sells traps, at least the GM in Blaine does. Just be carefull that you don't get your hand stuck in them. At the very least it is going to hurt like a son of a gun. They also sell setters, which is a tool for setting the conibear trap, for about $7. Not a bad piece of insurance to carry around or have on hand for bird hunters.

At the stores they may be zip tied together to prevent accidents.

[stretcher]

You can also carry a piece of rope with you to set the springs like it says in the regulation handbook. The most important thing to do first is grab both springs and squeeze them enough to turn the trap up and down (vertical) on the dogs neck. Doing this gives you much more time to get the trap off safely.

Chad

[huntingmaxima]

Good post Michael. I know that when there are time that I am in a hurry to reset my conibear traps, I have taken my belt off and use it to reset my traps. I am sure your gun sling woould also work. Please go down to FF or GM and take a look at them.

[Bluegill1510]

good post man I have never trapped but I have friends who do, and have tagged along with them while they set their traps. It is quite a time consuming hobby/sport and you can make your $$ back if you do it regularly. Nothing more upsets my friends when someone does mess with their trap. They are pretty easy to release as my dad stepped into a 110 last fall while checking deer stands from a neighbor trapping & trespassing, and I released his foot easily but it still hurt for a couple of days. Just like the Michael has just press down the 2 springs down and it opens.

[fishermann222]

obrien arn't you suppose to be getting married or something LOL.

Obrien is a stand up guy, and I am very sorry to hear another illegally messed with his set. I don't know if I would handle it as well as he did, I would press charges if it were me.

On another note, a quick internet search will tell you how to release a dog from a body gripping trap. It is very easy if you have a dog leash (which you should) or a piece of rope. Do a quick search and learn how to do it.

[yooperhawg]

very glad you stepped up and let everyone know who you are and that you, like most of the trappers out there are concerned not to catch "non-game" animals. It is a pleasure to meet fellow trappers like you. Kudos to you!!!

[Ray1]

Kuddos to you Obrien.

[candiru]

Out of the Sunday Star Tribune:

On a hunting trip, a Pine River man lost his dog after it got caught in a legal body-gripping trap.

By BILL MARCHEL, Special to the Star Tribune

Last update: December 26, 2009 - 9:26 PM

PINE RIVER, MINN. — It was shortly after noon when Mike Marvin of Pine River left his truck with shotgun in hand. Eagerly bounding ahead of Marvin was Faith, his 9-month-old yellow Lab. With the ruffed grouse hunting season waning, he hoped the adolescent dog would find and flush a bird or two.

The sky was cloudy and a slight southerly breeze wafted through the aspens as man and dog plied the forest. An inch or two of snow covered the ground. Weatherwise, it was typical for mid-December.

Tragically, though, the day would not end typically.

By midafternoon, Marvin and Faith had flushed four grouse. Now, as Faith explored the various forest scents, the young dog's nose drew her to a fate that would forever change her owner.

Suddenly and to Marvin's horror, he realized Faith had stuck her head into the jaws of a body-gripping trap set most likely in an attempt to capture a bobcat. The trap was firmly locked past the head and across the throat and neck of the 60-pound dog.

"I arrived at Faith's side within 10 seconds," Marvin said. "She stopped pawing the ground and looked at me fully aware."

The trap that gripped Marvin's dog had jaws that spread roughly 7 inches across and were held tightly closed by springs on two sides. Body-gripping traps like this are often referred to as conibear-type traps.

Marvin tried immediately to compress the springs in an attempt to free his dog.

"Using both hands I got the right side spring to within an inch or an inch and a half of being able to lock it," Marvin said.

During his effort to free his suffocating dog, Marvin screamed for help at the top of his lungs. "I knew there was no one within hearing," he said.

It was all over within two or three minutes. Faith was gone.

With the trap still fixed to the throat of his dog, Marvin transported her body home, where he unveiled the horrible news to his family, his voice choked with emotion and hoarse from yelling for help.

Ten days later, Marvin's thumb still aches from attempting to compress the spring on the trap. He is sleeping better at night, but the terrible event remains vivid in his mind.

It appears no laws were broken by the trapper responsible for setting the trap. According to DNR trapping regulations, the trap had a jaw width within the legal limits. The law reads, "A person may not set, place or operate any body-gripping or conibear-type trap with a jaw opening greater than 7 1/2 inches, except as a water set."

"I'm not an anti-trapper," said Marvin, who is an optometrist. "I have a number of patients who trap, and I respect them. No trapper I know wants to catch someone's dog, and they would feel terrible if they did.

"But somehow, hunters with dogs need to know trappers are in the area. If I get another dog, I won't be out hunting when there could be traps set."

Is there a way Marvin's tragic loss could have been avoided?

Trappers and hunters have explored various options. Trapping associations often give seminars on how to quickly and effectively free a dog from a body-gripping trap. That information is also available on the Web; one site is terrierman.com/traprelease.htm. In addition, the Minnesota Trappers Association has, for the past several years, purchased a one-page ad in the Minnesota Hunting and Trapping Regulations showing how to remove a domestic animal from a body-gripping trap. This year the ad is on page 53.

On page 45 of the 2009 Minnesota Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook, in a box marked "Important!" and highlighted in orange, the DNR cautions trappers and hunting dog owners of the potential problem.

There are no known statistics on how many hunting dogs die in legally set body-gripping traps. Suffice to say it is a relatively rare occurrence.

That knowledge is of little consolation to Marvin and his family.

Bill Marchel, an outdoors columnist and photographer, lives near Brainerd.

[candiru]

Please use your common sense when setting traps where someone may be walking/running their dogs. It does not take too many of these stories to turn people against the sport of trapping.

[mn_archer]

Oh man, that is too bad about the dog. The sad reality is that there are unethical trappers out there. There are also unethical everythings out there, and sometimes accidents do happen.

I am willing to show anyone who will listen anything theyw ant to know about traps and or trapping. I just walked in the house from this...

but when I get a chance in the next few days I'll do a photo essay here on a conibear trap and how to remove it from an animal.

The very sad reality is that the Dr could have saved his dog if he knew about these traps. I can not imagine going through what he did and my heart feels for him.

michael

[Dave S]

Congrats Mike.

your willingness, as well as the other trappers here, to share your knowledge on this controversial topic has IMO been a great help to keeping this thread civil.

Here's a HUGE Thanks!!!!!!!!

Looking forward to your future post.

[Ybone]

I read the article in the Trib and they have a pic of what looks like a 220 set in front of a cubbie made of bows. I don't have a copy of the laws handy but I thought I read that to be legal a trap of that size must be set inside a container with an opening less than 50 square inches and a minimum of 7 inches inside the container. I wonder how the trap that killed the dog was set? If it was set like the pic I believe it was set illegally.

[walleyes12]

a 220 conibear DOES NOT have to be in a container of any sorts.

[Rick]

Hope this video helps.

[stretcher]

This season I bought a sleepy creek body trap setter that is made of aluminum and tried it on our cat line and was quite pleased with it's performance on taking animals out of the traps. This was the small model and is only about 16 or 18 inches long and is very light. It would easily fit in the back of your bird vest, it cost about $9 at Cumberlands and I think it would be a very easy item for a bird hunter to carry if he is in areas that he is worried about body traps.

Just an idea.

Chad

[Ybone]

Walleye 12, I found a copy of the laws and on page 51 it states that they do have to be be inside a container, there's even an illustration showing a box and a bucket. The only other way they can be legally set on land is off the ground at least 3 feet.

[walleyes12]

Ybone, your reading the regulations for the lynx management zone, maybe you are in that area.

MN LAW:

• any body-gripping or conibear-type trap with a jaw opening

greater than 7½ inches, except as a waterset*; or

• any body-gripping or conibear-type trap with a jaw opening

greater than 6½ inches in or within 3 feet of a culvert, except

when completely submerged in water.

So in a nut shell no bigger than a 220 conibear on land and no bigger than 160 within 3' of a culvert.

Anything bigger than a 220 has to be completely submerged under water

Anywhere other than lynx management zone, you can set a 220 conibear and smaller, on trails, and there is NO height requirements

[Ybone]

Yes, you're right it is only in the lynx management zone. Pine River area where the dog was killed is not in that zone.

[Tom7227]

Any chance of posting the way to get the YouTube direct from them? Sometimes they lead to other similar videos. Thanks.

[Dave S]

If you click on the 5th icon from the left in the reply box (you need to click on "reply" to begin with), you can select between several different media options.

I was going to post one about using the setters, but it included information on the video that violates forum policy. Please keep that in mind.

[BLACKJACK]

[Note from admin: Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

[Flying_Fort]

Thank you Admin!!

[huntingmaxima]

Good job, Admin

[jigginjim]

Very sorry to hear about the pup. Most trappers I know put traps larger than 160, in a cubbies with a dog proof cover, unless used in a water set. All of my trap sets are such to prevent dogs from being caught, it may cost me a coon or other furbear. an oz. of prevention better than a lb. of cure or pain.