Why change party hunting laws?

[BuckKiller]

the deer are getting beter and beter every year... leave it the way it is.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

Not to sound too much like an a$$ but why do we have to baby the people that might quit hunting if there is any little change to the regs. If you love to deer hunt you will do it no matter what. Now I understand that the DNR would never want to promote a mass exidous of deer hunters but if a few regulation changes keep you on the couch you probably won't be out hunting 5-10 years down the road anyway.

Why do we have to baby the people that want changes? Will you quit hunting if we leave it the way it is?

That would be a big negative. Change is a lot of different thing to a lot of people, I'm more in favor of making a few small changes to see how things work out. My whole point was if guys quit hunting over a few small changes they must not be into it in the first place. Other hunting and fishing regs change yearly, I don't see a lot of people quitting, that ones that do probably didn't care for it any way.

[Joe15]

It give the deer almost no chance at all. You get 5 guys walking through a grove and another 3 or 4 posting. Any deer anyone that someone wants...they are almost garunteed to get.

I vote yes

[BuckKiller]

why fix what ain't broken

[Bear55]

If you look at the size and age structure of our buck population I would say things are a little broken. Or at the very least the numbers are very unnatural due to over harvesting of bucks.

[Jameson]

...at the very least the numbers are very unnatural due to over harvesting of bucks.

...then lets have a buck lottery!

[Big Dave2]

Change is a lot of different thing to a lot of people,

Just remember, hunting in general is a lot of different things to a lot of people.

The way things are set up now, you and I both have the opportunity to shoot the deer that we choose. Under your "changes" you would still have your opportunity but mine would be diminished.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

Change is a lot of different thing to a lot of people,

Just remember, hunting in general is a lot of different things to a lot of people.

The way things are set up now, you and I both have the opportunity to shoot the deer that we choose. Under your "changes" you would still have your opportunity but mine would be diminished.

Right now I'm for no part hunting of bucks. So yes I am in favor of diminishing your opportuity to shoot mulitle bucks but do you really feel you or anyone else deserves to shoot more than one buck a year?

As far as a buck lotto or antler restrictions, for whatever reason if they come up for a vote I would vote yes because right now I feel we need some kind of change. However I think we can both agree that they might not be what is best for the state and that more than likey they won't be happening any time soon, if ever.

[DaveT]

Under your "changes" you would still have your opportunity but mine would be diminished.

The problem BD, is that I'm sick of having the opportunity to pass up small bucks hoping for a big one that doesn't exist. Or exists in such small numbers as to make it next to impossible to kill one. I have hunted a lot of places and I know that a hunter who puts in his time and hunts smart will have an opportunity to shoot a big buck once or twice a fall in most of the states we've talked about. Whether that hunter cashes in or not is up to a lot of other factors, but he will have that chance. The way things are now I am not getting my opportunity, unless I leave the state. I am sick of hearing about how many big bucks we have in MN, what we have here is a joke compared to the other states I've hunted. I do put in my time here. I do get off my butt and scout. I put in twice the effort in MN than I do in other states because MN is where I live and hunt the most. But I haven't seen a P&Y buck in MN in 3 years. By doing away with buck party hunting, the only opportunity lost is the opportunity to be a game hog, you will still be allowed to kill a buck, just not multiple bucks. It amazes me that ducks and pheasants are put on a pedestal and deer are treated like vermin. You can't party hunt for birds here, but you can fill 10 freezers with venison, as long as you have enough tags.

Why can't an animal as magnificent as a whitetail deer get as much respect as a merganser?

[MOSSY]

BIG DAVE2 IS RIGHT

SOME PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ALL SEASON TO HUNT AND WANT TO HAVE SOME VENISON.YOU CAN STILL PASS ON THE SMALL BUCKS IF YOU WANT.

WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO LET HIM GROW SO YOU CAN SHOOT HIM LATER.

I DON'T EAT THE ANTLERS

[BuckKiller]

lol thats a good point MOSSY

[Bear55]

But Mossy these 7 pages have been about no party hunting for bucks, you would get your opportunity to shoot what you want and some of the young bucks might get a chance to see another year. Where is the problem in that.

[MOSSY]

WELL BEAR MAYBE I WANT MY KIDS TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT THAT SECOND BUCK IF THEY SAW IT.DON'T MAKE MOST OF US DO WHAT A FEW WOULD LIKE TO SEE

[NoWiser]

There are more than a few of us who would like to see this change..... In fact most, if not all, of my hunting buddies support this rule change.

Is there anything wrong with sitting down and telling your kids they are only allowed one buck per season? Its no different than when I was a young turkey hunter and told I could only shoot one bearded Tom, or when I was a young fisherman and told I could only keep one walleye over 21 inches. The only difference is this is a new regulation......not necessarily a bad one.

Deer hunting doesn't have to be about mowing down every deer that crosses your path.....

[CodyDawg]

In addition, it will teach kids and adults alike to appreciate the deer they do get. Who really NEEDS to shoot that 2nd and 3rd and 4th bucks? I believe that doing so diminishes the value placed on the deer. By doing away with the party hunting, you can still kill multiple deer, you can still fill your freezer with venison. You can also stand a better chance of shooting a mature buck.

If I hear that "there are all kinds of big bucks in Outdoor News" mantra one more time, I am gonna be ill. There are half a million....HALF A MILLION.... hunters out there and a hundred pics of nice bucks in ON. Do the math.

Oh, and if you dont eat antlers, why not shoot does?

[DaveT]

By my count on Pickelfarmer's poll the few you speak of is more like 50 percent.

Anyway, us antler eaters have been sacrificing for years by not shooting any bucks most years, let alone 3 or 4. The result of this has not been more mature bucks like we hoped, only more venison in your freezers. You can thank us now or later, or not at all, but the fact is you guys who party kill multiple bucks every year owe some if not most of your success to us antler eaters, not the DNR. Forgive us for not feeling sorry for you when you can only kill 1 buck, which I pray happens soon.

[MOSSY]

I WILL SHOOT A DOE IF I SEE ONE.SOMETIMES I DON'T SEE A DOE

BY THE WAY I HAVE PASSED ON MANY BUCKS MYSELF,BUT IT WAS BECAUSE I WANTED TO.IF THAT SAME SMALLER BUCK CAME BY LATER IN THE SEASON AND I HAD AN OPEN TAG I WOULD TAKE IT

I LIKE VENISON

[MOSSY]

BY THE WAY CODYDAWG HOW CAN YOU SHOOT "MULTIPLE DEER AND FILL YOUR FREEZER" IN A LOTTERY AREA,IF YOU CAN'T PARTY HUNT. MAYBE YOU HAVE MULTIPLE DEER WALKING PAST YOU ALL THE TIME,WE DON'T AND I BELIEVE MOST PEOPLE IN OUR AREA ARE THE SAME AS US

[Big Dave2]

So yes I am in favor of diminishing your opportuity to shoot mulitle bucks but do you really feel you or anyone else deserves to shoot more than one buck a year?

I feel that my party deserves the opportunity to harvest as many deer as there are members of our party.

[motley man]

Party hunting is not the problem. All the multiple tags that are given out in areas that can't take the pressure is. Also the people that shoot deer and don't eat them and throw them away in trash dumpsters after they brag about them. Or shoot deer and let them lay because they don't know how to take care of them or whatever. I have found many deer that where shot and brought into camp areas and then left. Antlers cut off and the rest left. Every year you hear about deer thrown in dumpsters in the twin cities, and people that let them hang and rot. Don't mean to get upset but people that hunt and don't take care for their kill are a problem. We all have know someone that has done it. Please educate anyone that you come across of how to take care of their kill. This includes fish,birds, or deer. Everyone should know how to process their game from the field to the table. It is not that hard to do if you learn how. This will help with population if they don't kill multiple animals and just let them lay. One person does not need to have 4-5 deer. Farmers that complain about deer eating their crops should let more hunters on their land, not get paid by D.N.R. for crop loss.

[Big Dave2]

In addition, it will teach kids and adults alike to appreciate the deer they do get. Who really NEEDS to shoot that 2nd and 3rd and 4th bucks? I believe that doing so diminishes the value placed on the deer.

[DaveT]

The value is being placed on the experience, not the deer or the antlers. However, the experience is tremendously enhanced by witnessing a large buck once in a while. Last year I watched a buck tend a doe from 6:30 AM until 2:30 PM, when I finally put an arrow in him. During that 8 hours, I watched this buck run off 5 other bucks and a coyote while defending his doe. I watched him herd her up against the base of a steep ridge while working her like a cutting horse. When she laid down he would lay down nearby, but would jump to his feet and charge out towards any sound he heard. Then hurry back to the doe before she could run off. All the time they were within 100 yards, but never closer than 60. Finally a young buck came in behind me and the buck worked over to me, ears laid back, hair on end, stiff legging it over to this new buck, and I shot him.

That is the kind of experience everyone should have. Once you've had hunting like that, it's hard to be satisfied with what we have here. BD, Mossy, the rest of you, your children will enjoy their hunting much more when they have real stories to tell about their hunt, not just a buck came out and I shot it. Then another buck came out so I shot that, too. You don't have to tell me there's more to hunting than big antlers, I know. My pursuit of big antlers has led me down a path full of incredible encounters in the woods that I would never have had if I was still brownNdownin' it. If any of you had seen half the things I've seen in the last 8 years, you'd be leading the charge to make things better here. You may be satisfied with the hunting you have now, but you have never been exposed to what it could be. Your fear of change is understandable, but unfounded. Give it a chance, see what happens. You might like it.

[chub]

It amazes me that ducks and pheasants are put on a pedestal and deer are treated like vermin. You can't party hunt for birds here, but you can fill 10 freezers with venison, as long as you have enough tags. Why can't an animal as magnificent as a whitetail deer get as much respect as a merganser?

You can party hunt for upland game. You are not supposed to party hunt for waterfowl. FEDERAL LAW, not state. Migratory Bird Treaty Act. I would say a fair majority of waterfowlers pay little heed to the party hunting laws. I wouldn't say that's got anything to do with respect for the quarry, or lack of.

[Bowfin]

[NoWiser]

DaveT--You are right on the money! I would still be part of the "brown its down" club had I not gone to school out of state and experienced the kind of hunting that you just described. Its almost pointless to try to convince someone that hunting like that is possible unless they too have experienced it, and if they've hunted MN all their life, they have not.

I am at a point in my life right now where I can't afford to go out of state to hunt, so the best I can hope for is that the DNR takes steps to point MN in that direction.

Bowfin - As much as it might hurt to pass up the 12, thats a choice you would have to make when you let the arrow fly on the 10. If you let the 10 go, and don't see the 12, well then maybe you have two real monsters to look forward to hunting next year. I let quite a few nice bucks walk while in college, and ate my buck tag every year, yet I don't have a single regret.

When you have hunting like DaveT described, the actual shooting of the deer becomes a MUCH, MUCH smaller part of the hunting experience. Most people probably wouldn't understand that or believe me, so its probably pointless to try to explain. I know there are a few here that know what I'm talking about, though....

[DonBo]

I don't know anyone who shoots deer and lets them lay, or lets them hang till rotten, or throws them in dumpsters. If you do, please call TIP or your local CO.

[archerystud]

I believe that my way teaches a kid just as valuable of a lesson as yours does. We meat hunters (IMO) are the ones who truly appreciate the deer we get.

BD2,

I bow and gun hunted MN for 16 years as a meat hunter. I took 9 bucks during that time and 5 in the last of those 5 years.

For the last 15 years I've bow, gun, and used muzzle loader to pursue mature bucks. I've bought land, planted food and cover, improved habitat, scouted year round and began hunting out of state as well. I've taken 3 MN bucks during that time while letting my neighbors fill out their party tags with small bucks while I eat tag soup at the end of the year.

I've hunted both ways and I know which deer I have a much higher appreciation for. I suggest you try to solely pursue mature whitetails for 5 years and eat a few tags while others around you fill theirs on the deer you passed up on.

After that I'd like you to get back to me and see if your opinion matches mine.

[lakevet]

I've hunted both ways and I know which deer I have a much higher appreciation for. I suggest you try to solely pursue mature whitetails for 5 years and eat a few tags while others around you fill theirs on the deer you passed up on.

After that I'd like you to get back to me and see if your opinion matches mine.

archerystud,

I know people who appreciate whitetail deer way higher than both of us. He dreams of being in our shoes, but he isn't and maybe never will be. It's the person who is unemployed/underemployed with a family to feed. Yes he could get gov't assistance, etc. But he loves to hunt. And he wants to stand on his own two feet. Getting any deer helps him/her feed his family. And it helps him maintain his sanity. He already has the gun, ammo, clothes, etc just buys a license and goes out the back door to party hunt with some family or friends. Cost is minimal. But it still costs precious dollars. Time off may be little as he does want to risk the job he does have. That spike that you let walk and cringe when he shoots is WAY more appreciated every time his family has another meal for it. Those that have plenty need to remember those hunters that have alot less. In northern Minnesota, party hunting is a time proven method to increase the odds(not guarantee) that all those in the party take home some venison. Local paper said unemployment around here is over 10%. My banker says that they expect unemployment to get over 15% in NE minnesota. Hope they are wrong. Its anyones guess how much higher the underemployment is/will be. The economic downturn already changed many peoples thinking on letting a spike walk last fall (2008). Not everyone is hurting economically, but the number is increasing. Letting spike deer walk is something that is greatly influenced by your economic status. Fall 2009 more hunters will be willing to shoot a spike than last year. I suspect your opinion might change if you were in their shoes. I definitely hope you don't have to experience that. Most spike shooters are not hurting for money, but I know some that gift the meat to a household that is short of food. The vast majority of party hunters I know divide meat based on who wants/needs the meat. It's the Northern Minnesota tradition.

lakevet

p.s. that law abiding spike shooting party hunter is a PETA nightmare. Non hunting americans strongly support you if you hunt to feed your family/others.

[archerystud]

lakevet,

If it comes down to money then people should take a look at what venison truly costs per pound. It's much cheaper to run to your local grocery store. But I'll keep the current system until the economy turns around. I don't have a problem if people needing to feed their family.

So when things do turn around something should be done to improve the age structure of the deer in Southern MN. I can't speak for the entire state (and this state is truly diverse in its hunting habitat) but the area that I do most of my hunting in has a very young age structure.

My point is that people who have never passed up on small bucks have no idea how frustrating it can be. I said in my previous post that I've taken 3 bucks in MN during that time. Two of those have come off of a small property I hunt in the TC. It's truly my honey hole because it has a park nearby and the deer are allowed to grow up.

I'm sure a bunch of people are saying I'm spoiled since I have my own land to hunt on (and yes I do consider myself very fortunate). So I've hunted for 15 years on my own land during that time I've shot at one and only one buck on my own property even though it is where 80% of my hunting is done.

I myself also like venison and have also found a way to supplement by finding doe areas in the TC and helping to control the population. So even in that 15 years I've always had at least one in the freezer. So yes I like the meat as well and it does not go to waste in my house either.

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

I believe that my way teaches a kid just as valuable of a lesson as yours does. We meat hunters (IMO) are the ones who truly appreciate the deer we get.

BD2,

I bow and gun hunted MN for 16 years as a meat hunter. I took 9 bucks during that time and 5 in the last of those 5 years.

For the last 15 years I've bow, gun, and used muzzle loader to pursue mature bucks. I've bought land, planted food and cover, improved habitat, scouted year round and began hunting out of state as well. I've taken 3 MN bucks during that time while letting my neighbors fill out their party tags with small bucks while I eat tag soup at the end of the year.

I've hunted both ways and I know which deer I have a much higher appreciation for. I suggest you try to solely pursue mature whitetails for 5 years and eat a few tags while others around you fill theirs on the deer you passed up on.

After that I'd like you to get back to me and see if your opinion matches mine.

That's my whole point. You hold a higher appreciation for just the large antlered deer while I hold a high appreciation for all deer.

Would you even hunt if deer did not grow antlers? I would.