Why change party hunting laws?

[lakevet]

Existing party hunting regulations are as follows:

"A "party' is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters who are ALL AFIELD; HUNTING TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME; and all using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery."

and

"The party hunting regulation REQUIRES that all hunters who INTEND to tag deer for each other be hunting together, in the field, AT THE TIME THE DEER ARE TAKEN."

and

"Hunters may not LEND or BORROW licenses from other hunters"

pages 72 and 73

2008 MN hunting regs

"all afield; hunting together at the same time" doesn't mean different properties, napping/eating/sleeping in at the shack, running to town, coming up the next day, wife/girlfriend back at the house (big one for bowhunters)

How many deer (especially a buck) are shot then tagged by an violation of this law? How many guys would pass on the buck of a lifetime because the only other person with a tag is taking a nap at the shack? It would be illegal under existing laws.

IMHO party hunting regulations are already strict. It would be hard to enforce buck party hunting, would have little impact on Trophy bucks, and is another divisive issue among us. Iowa has party hunting for bucks and is the #1 trophy buck state. When we were #1 we did it and had party hunting at the same time. The existing regulations need better enforcement by the state, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE ENFORCEMENT MUST BE WITHIN OUR OWN RANKS.

Would you want additional regulations on party hunting?

I vote NO

just my 2 cents

Lakevet

[CodyDawg]

My opinion is that nobody needs to shoot another person's deer. Get rid of party hunting and I do think it would help the buck population immensely.

[JigginIsLife]

yup all party hunting does is confuse people, also very easy to break the law. comunication is illegal between hunters in stand so if somone needs to run to the bathroom or to the truck quick, and you take one that would, by definition be illegal. just too many circumstantial situations, i say if you get a tag shoot what you have on the tag and nothing else. besides to me party shooting sounds like systematically killing rather than hunting. i prefer to hunt by myself.

[Jameson]

...Would you want additional regulations on party hunting?

...

I vote no.

The poachers aren't following the current party hunting laws. What are more laws going to do?

[lakevet]

My opinion is that nobody needs to shoot another person's deer. Get rid of party hunting and I do think it would help the buck population immensely.

CodyDawg,

I hope my 12 yr old will fill my tag and his in 2009. Iowa kids can do this and they have excellent trophy hunting.

I still vote NO.

lakevet

[Archerysniper]

Get rid of party hunting and start adopting more quality deer management practices. Also do away with the management tags but still allow youth to shoot antlerless the deer poupulation has taken a big nose dive in most areas of the state.

LET HIM GO LET HIM GROW (QDMA)

[CodyDawg]

You will find very few hunters who are more kid friendly than myself. I teach firearm safety, i take kids on mentor hunts and I have 3 of my own coming up. They still dont need to shoot more than their deer. Making things too easy is not fun for the kids either. they should have to work for their deer like everyone else and shoot just one. then they will really, truly appreciate that deer IMHO. If that is how you wanna do it, go ahead, it is completely legal and I am not passing judgement. However, in my opinion, we should drop the party hunting concept.

[lakevet]

CodyDawg & Archerysniper,

You're my kind of hunters! Great to hear that kids are a priority for you too. May you be blessed many years of hunting with your kids. I still have to repeat the question, why can Iowa have party hunting and still be a trophy buck factory? I think it is that party hunting isn't a significant factor. If it was then Iowa, with more open spaces and fewer hiding spots when the crops are harvested, multiple long seasons, and party hunting would not be the big buck hotspot.

Iowa is #1 with book buck production recently and Minnesota has been #1 with book bucks EVEN THOUGH PARTY HUNTING IS LEGAL IN BOTH STATES. Something other than party hunting is the reason Iowa passed us up.

Lakevet

[DonBo]

Iowa's season is after the rut and no rifles are allowed.

[mrklean]

end party hunting its a joke, i use to hunt southern MN where hunting is nothing more then guys driving around in trucks all day running through small patchs of woods and killing everything that pops out, which is why i switched to bowhunting after 3 years. I remember people saying how they killed 3 bucks this year and what not. When your tag is filled your done.

[lakevet]

end party hunting its a joke, i use to hunt southern MN where hunting is nothing more then guys driving around in trucks all day running through small patchs of woods and killing everything that pops out, which is why i switched to bowhunting after 3 years.

Sorry for your bad experience.

We switched to muzzleloader over 14 yrs ago because of the crowds during regular firearms. It was tough to give up the rifle season. The lack of people in the woods was worth it. Then the all season license arrived and now we had a trophy hunter last season tell us that they had a buck patterned all fall and we should stay out of the swamp (the swamp is public property). They had chased it since the opening of archery. He acted like it was his buck and not public property for all to legally hunt. We were there first and they drove up later but it was such a bad experience with the kids we left. Unethical and illegal hunters cause problems during all seasons.

Again,Iowa has the same party hunting rule and they still produce more book bucks. Wisconsin allows firearms party hunting. They produce alot of book bucks. Archery party hunting IS illegal in Wisconsin. Maybe wisconsin thinks party hunting archers would take too many bucks? Or maybe its to help protect bucks in rut. Archers can be deadly on undisturbed bucks early/mid rut. (I am an archer).

lakevet

[CodyDawg]

I would say Iowans have a better concept of letting the little ones go, coupled with an after the rut season. I know that in my group, it would help immensely if it was just one deer. as it is now, we have guys shoot multiple bucks and multiple little bucks. this year, we had a guy shoot a dandy 10 pointer....and then a basket 6.....and then a dandy 8. AAAAAAHHHH!

[picksbigwagon]

You can't compare MN to IA to WI. Things like population density (human that is) food sources and topography play a huge role into those numbers. None of which are controlled by the DNR. All of Iowa is not full of big bruiser bucks. Allamakee County is year in and year out home to some monster bucks. Same thing with Houston county in MN. You will find similar population densities food sources and topography in those two counties, I have hunted in Houston County and grew up in Allamakee county. I know why they have bigger bucks than say Pine county MN. Food sources and topography......

If you compare western counties in MN and IA you would see the same thing.

Party hunting has nothing to do with human population densities, food sources and topography and the DNR can't change or regulate it.

Now if you want to get rid of party hunting, I understand, but I don't know how they will enforce it, we have a hard enough time with people buying licenses to begin with. I think moving the season dates would help as well, but part of the reason Iowa does so well is that the bucks are done running does and they are racing to put weight back on, so they aren't as cautious as they would be in October. Let's move the season back to the first week of December. No one hunts during the first 3 weeks of november, NO ONE............You still are not going to get monster bucks in every county in the state, but it would be fair.

[reddog]

Party hunting in Iowa is allowed only for the shotgun season, which starts after the rut. 1st weekend thru Wed (5 days) in Dec, is the beginning of slug season. Then, on the following weekend, the 2nd season runs from Saturday thru Sunday, 8 days. There is no "multi zone" license.

Archery and muzzleloader seasons do not allow party hunting, by law.

I am not sure about the late, late rifle season on the bottom two tiers of counties if these alow party hunting. My guess, would be no, but that is just my guess.

[Bowfin]

I vote to keep party hunting and keep gun hunting during the rut! My family can eat 4 deer a year if given the chance. I've been hunting Minnesota public lands for 25 years and our camp hasn't discriminated due to antler size. And know what? - the big bucks are still out there. We haven't been able to extinct them. Take a look at the photos every year in the Outdoor News. They are the big wise old mossy horns like your granddaddy told you about - not the protected bucks which are behind every tree like you see on the hunting videos these days. You can have a sense of accomplishment if you down a big buck in Minnesota as they grew that big despite wolves, winter, and hunters.

As it relates to MN public lands, each hunter should shoot those deer which are enjoyable to them and not have to worry about what the guy in the next tree thinks they should shoot. We need to lighten up a bit and not stress out to increase antler size.

It is written: "Man is not meant to shoot a huge buck every year" (but it is sure fun tryin)!

[Nightcrawler]

the real difference between Minnesota and Iowa is 40 to 50 degrees in December. toooo cold for the minnesotians. 20 above and the woods is full of hunters 0 degrees and you got the woods to your self. whiners leave the partys and go on their own then complain they can'tfind a place to hunt, just say I'll shot my own deer. i will shoot what i want and eat it to.

[Rippinlip]

I kind of am on the fence with this one. I can see how both sides feel.

I really think it gets back to 2 things, hunter education and the DNR.

Does party hunting have a real dramatic affect on deer hunting, maybe in some areas, I have a real hard time believeing it is a huge problem in some areas up north where there is thousands of acres and only a few scattered hunters within that section.

Like an earlier post where the human population is high so is the pressure on deer and that is where the affect seems greater, so it is party hunting or other reasons.

I believe hunter education is one way to help our deer population, if you are out for meat for the freezer what is wrong with taking a doe or a young deer?

How many shoot deer just for the kill and will never eat the venison they have harvested?

Secondly, the DNR, I have to put my trust in them, because I have not the time nor the means of guesstimating the heard of Minnesota, but I think the population has not been what they are reporting for years.

I am wondering why so many tags were sold in some of the areas for so many years, is that just a money thing for them? I would hope not, but it is what it is.

Long winded answer for saying, I think there is other ways to help our deer population and take away some family traditions other than getting away from "party hunting".

I am an archery hunter, I do not party hunt anymore, but I did for years and we knew when enough was enough.

[Neighbor_guy]

Legal or not, when it comes to antlerless deer, I have always and will always party hunt. Does are for meat and eating. Tag soup tastes like ..... well you know.

I have been on both ends of getting my buck Tag filled by others. I dont like doing it, and i dont like it when it happens to me.

My vote, no changes.

[lakevet]

Party hunting in Iowa is allowed only for the shotgun season, which starts after the rut. 1st weekend thru Wed (5 days) in Dec, is the beginning of slug season. Then, on the following weekend, the 2nd season runs from Saturday thru Sunday, 8 days. There is no "multi zone" license.

Archery and muzzleloader seasons do not allow party hunting, by law.

I am not sure about the late, late rifle season on the bottom two tiers of counties if these alow party hunting. My guess, would be no, but that is just my guess.

Reddog

Thanks for the clarification. When I called Iowa dnr I asked about party hunting and they said it was legal. My question wasn't specific enough. Perhaps the muzzleloading party hunting restriction is to help counterbalance the use of scopes.(in SW Minnesota the impact of savvy muzzleloaders that can harvest deer well beyond the traditional shotgun range has resulted in possible overharvest) Iowa also restricts hunters to only one firearms season choice of the following:

a) Shotgun season 1

Shotgun season 2

c) Early muzzleloading or

d) Late muzzleloading

This reduces the opportunity for the individual hunter to use long range weapons to pursue bucks as opposed to Minnesota (All season license, rifle/shotgun and muzzleloader license, etc.). It takes some pressure off of the Big bucks. Iowa also limits the number of non-resident hunters. They do allow party hunting for anterless seasons with all weapons if the feel they need to get the population down. They claim the deer population would double in Iowa in three years if harvest quotas aren't met. Party hunting helps them manage the overall antlerless deer numbers. They also realize that importance of the party hunting tradition to the families and friends who have always hunted that way.

Lakevet

[mrklean]

no matter what happens like you guys said people wont change and it will be hard to enforce. Road hunting and poaching are illegal and people still do that all the time, baiting is illegal and people do that probably more then ever, would i like to see different laws change to improve bigger buck populations, yes, will it happen probably not. Its gonna take more then one subpar deer season (which was still in the top 10 of all time) to make some changes in this state. With licenses on the decline over the past few years i wouldnt be suprised if some of the change to get more tags out instead of the opposite.

[Whisker Trout Slayer]

the real difference between Minnesota and Iowa is 40 to 50 degrees in December. toooo cold for the minnesotians. 20 above and the woods is full of hunters 0 degrees and you got the woods to your self. whiners leave the partys and go on their own then complain they can'tfind a place to hunt, just say I'll shot my own deer. i will shoot what i want and eat it to.

It has been dang cold during 1st sesaon shotgun down here in Iowa a couple of years. Last year was terrible due to the ice storm we had which made everything real tough, and kept the fair weather hunters home complaining that they didn't fill their tags. Our group of 13 hunters still filled 22 tags in the ice storm (regular anysex tags, a few bonus antlerless tags, and 2 landowners tags in case if you were wondering)and we party hunt. If we did not party hunt and just went out and sat all day in a treestand we woudl not have anywhere near the success we have. The deer flat out do not move if they are not pushed. We found this out by another small group that just sit all day long. The only time they get any shooting is if we let some of the smaller deer go through or the deer find a way to escape that we couldn't cover.

As for the original question. Not all parts of the state of Iowa has huge bucks. In northest Iowa and southern Iowa the terrain is very hilly and also the sections are huge. If you got dropped in the middle of one you could walk a couple of miles before you reached a road, but where I live at and bowhunt in North Iowa almost all of the county had square mile gravel roads. Northern Minnesota should be similar to Northeast Iowa as the areas up there are huge and don't get as much pressure.

I think the major reason has to due with the soil minerals, as I can see the difference in racks in Iowa. Where I live at the racks I have seen, a bunch of the racks do not have great mass or that thick (don't get me wrong there are still nice deer here but not as many), but the racks I have seen from Northeast Iowa they are much thicker and are bruisers.

For the record I shotgun hunt in a different area than I bowhunt and live in North Iowa.

[Bear55]

The major difference between party hunting Iowa and Wisconsin to Minnesota is shooting young bucks. For whatever reason they the mentality to let them go and let them grow and we shoot everything we see. If you were to take Minnesotas hunters and spread them out through Iowa it wouldn't be more than a few years and the buck population would be decimated. Until our mentality changes our deer will never reach their true potential.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

The major difference between party hunting Iowa and Wisconsin to Minnesota is shooting young bucks. For whatever reason they the mentality to let them go and let them grow and we shoot everything we see. If you were to take Minnesotas hunters and spread them out through Iowa it wouldn't be more than a few years and the buck population would be decimated. Until our mentality changes our deer will never reach their true potential.

I'm sorry, Bear5, but this is just a rediculous statement. Do you seriously think that it's only Minnesotans that have this mentality? Really?

[alwaysonthemove]

I believe we should outlaw cross tagging. Let everyone shoot there own. I also believe we should open the gun season for a longer period of time like three weeks. It will definetly make some people upset. But I also think that will help the overall herd. People will be more selective. less driving shooting a deer on the run is un ethical plus the deer is also stressed and that puts a bad taste in the meat.

It will also make hunters be more respectable towards there neighbors. Seems like there is alot of clashing around deerhunting. Everybody wants to shoot a deer and it is funnled into a short period of time.

I myself enjoy bowhunting the deer are not stressed at all. The meat tastes a lot better. I also got more time to select the deer I want to harvest. I am in a 5 deer zone so I prefer doe fawns over adult does. Less meat ya but alot better tasting.

[Bear55]

No I'm sure there are plenty of other states as well but when you compare us to our neighbors it seems we like to shoot the young bucks and they don't. We have similar game laws and habitat and if you add in the fact that we use to produce the most B&C bucks of any state. Then yes I would say our mentality is one of the reasons to explain why the hunting is so much different across the border. Now I am speaking on average, certain small area's could be a lot better or worse hunting across all three states.

[Getanet]

Not trying to point fingers at anybody, but the main argument I've read here against party hunting is it hurts the quantity of big bucks. As a few have pointed out, not everyone is after a monster buck. I hunt for the meat and find larger bucks to be tougher and gamier than a smaller buck or doe. That's not to insinuate that anyone here taking a big buck doesn't eat the meat or is just after the rack.

My point is hunting is many things to many people and just because someone wants big bucks doesn't mean their desire should be given preference over someone else. I party hunt, my group does it respectfully, and I have no problem with the law.

[BobT]

end party hunting its a joke, i use to hunt southern MN where hunting is nothing more then guys driving around in trucks all day running through small patchs of woods and killing everything that pops out, which is why i switched to bowhunting after 3 years. I remember people saying how they killed 3 bucks this year and what not. When your tag is filled your done.

Sounds to me like you're confusing party hunting with driving. There is a difference although because one hunter may fill other's tags in the party, I will admit there is some overlap in this situation described here.

However, where we hunt (St. Louis county) the overlap doesn't exist and personally, I'm hunting not for trophies but for the meat because I enjoy eating venison. Now, before you think we're out there with nothing but blood on our minds I will tell you that we are selective in what we will take but our selection is not limited to someone's personal idea of what a trophy is. You can have all the mega racks you want cause it means nothing to me other than the calcium they are made of. As far as I'm concerned, the 1-1/2 year old 7-pointer my daughter took that didn't go any more than 160 pounds was a better trophy than any B&C or P&Y trophy class by far and it tasted great! Do we fill our tags every year? Absolutely not and in fact it is rare that we experience 100% fill. Some years are more plentiful than others but our average is about 60% success. Hardly what you'd call "killing everything that pops out."

With that said, I don't mind if another member of my party happens to get all the opportunities while I see nothing for the season. The meat still provides me with breakfast sausage, backstraps, steaks, roasts, canned, jerky, and ground venison for the year.

As far as trophy hunting goes, I could give a rat's whatever about satisfying any one group's idea of hunting. Those that want our deer herd managed strictly for trophy opportunities can go to a game farm as far as I'm concerned.

Bob

[DaveT]

The rationale behind ending party hunting for BUCKS is to improve opportunity for everyone, not just trophy hunters. Your party can continue to party hunt does and continue to have close to the same success you've always had, provided the tags are available. Obviously, it may not be popular with some, but it is the way it is done in most states, and if you went to Montana and party hunted for elk they would throw the book at you. The reason for that is they value the resource and want everyone who's paid for opportunity by buying a license to have that opportunity. By shooting an extra buck or multiple extra bucks, you are depriving another licensed hunter, whether in your party or not, of the chance to kill that buck.

I'm going on my 3rd year trying to draw an Iowa tag. I want to tell you guys that the hunting in Iowa is terrible, there aren't any big bucks there, and you all should stop trying to draw tags there because it isn't worth it.

[Whisker Trout Slayer]

I'm going on my 3rd year trying to draw an Iowa tag. I want to tell you guys that the hunting in Iowa is terrible, there aren't any big bucks there, and you all should stop trying to draw tags there because it isn't worth it.

I agree 100%, don't come to Iowa there are no deer here and all the bucks are tiny basket racks. Don't waste the time and effort as they are much bigger in Minnesota!! The pros on TV are confused as to what state they were in when they said Iowa and not Minnesota.

[Big Dave2]

As far as trophy hunting goes, I could give a rat's whatever about satisfying any one group's idea of hunting. Those that want our deer herd managed strictly for trophy opportunities can go to a game farm as far as I'm concerned.

Bob

This is the best statement I've read in any of these deer antler threads yet!!!!