Trophy Hunters, Friend or Foe?

[inspec_brad]

Bull, where are you hunting in 347? SEMN has a great deer population, with some age structure. Probably due to the fact the deer have so many places to hide in the bluffs and valleys. A national magazine just recognized two counties in SEMN as being in an area that is the best "unheard of" area for taking trophy whitetails. I'm not sure what more you want. Do you want us to go and find the deer for you? I don't hear a lot of people from SEMN complaining.. I know that other parts of the state don't have it as good as we do.

Maybe you didn't read my post correctly? I stated that I would like to see some different changes in this zone and maybe others. I feel, along with numerous other hunters in this area that the population cannot support a 5 deer limit anymore. Do I need you to find my deer for me? Not hardly. I can and am willing to do the work on my own! Like I stated earlier, I would like to see some sort of change to the 5 deer limit here. As far as big deer, well I know that they are in my area.

[96trigger]

Quote:

I hear people talk about se mn alot. What is the deal with this area? I live here but I do not know what you folks are talkling about. Please clue me in on this. Thanks.

Quote:

Nobody will tell me what the fascination with the south east part of the state is. Someone chime in here please.

Your questions are just very vague, the reason SEMN is brought up is that it has some age structure and good genetics, I'm not sure what more you want us to say about it? Twice you ask about the fascination, I told you why it's brought up, still not sure what your question is, will you please restate so maybe we can give you an answer? What else do you want to know, maybe be more specific about what you want answered instead of "whats the deal with SEMN".

As for the 5 deer limit, yes, I think it is a little much. It could easily get brought down to 3.

[inspec_brad]

Quote:

I hear people talk about se mn alot. What is the deal with this area? I live here but I do not know what you folks are talkling about. Please clue me in on this. Thanks.

Quote:

Nobody will tell me what the fascination with the south east part of the state is. Someone chime in here please.

Your questions are just very vague, the reason SEMN is brought up is that it has some age structure and good genetics, I'm not sure what more you want us to say about it? Twice you ask about the fascination, I told you why it's brought up, still not sure what your question is, will you please restate so maybe we can give you an answer? What else do you want to know, maybe be more specific about what you want answered instead of "whats the deal with SEMN".

As for the 5 deer limit, yes, I think it is a little much. It could easily get brought down to 3.

I wanna know if people are trying to include semn with Wisconsin? Big Dave 2 spoke of semn on a couple different pages. I really don't think semn is a good trophy area, if thats what some people are tyring to get at? Sure we have some nice deer here, just like most areas. Alot of them? I don't think so. Why? Same reasons as in other areas. They don't get enough time to grow. 3 deer per person is still too many. IMO.

[96trigger]

Quote:

I really don't think semn is a good trophy area, if thats what some people are tyring to get at?

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that... Minnesota is very capable of growing some trophy deer. I think it decreases the farther west you get from the Mississippi River Valley. You will get pockets here and there of good deer, but they lose a lot of the cover that enables them to hide and get big.

But we are not Wisconsin, that I will agree with you on. They have a population problem. I think with just a little tweaking in this part of the state, it could really be so much more. My question has always been, what will the cost of trophy deer in SEMN be in terms of pressure and locked land? I'd rather stick with what I have, than find out we pushed for management and didn't like the consequences.

[kr8r.tom]

top 5 counties b&c enteries past 5 years nontypical 185"+

1.todd 7 enteries

2.st. louis 4

3.itasca 3

4.wabasha 3

5.aitken 2

top 5 past 5 years typical 160"+

1.houston 7 enteries

2.fillmore 6

3.ottertail 6

4.cass, morrison,wabasha 4

5.becker 3

[DaveT]

Just got back from Kansas last night, I took my 13 year old son down for the rifle season. He killed his first deer, a yearling 6 pointer in MN this year with a bow. I told him he was going to have to shoot something bigger, or shoot a doe with his Kansas tag. He had the time of his life counting deer in Kansas, when we left he was up to 51. Granted, we counted the same deer 2 or 3 times over 3 and a half days, but he saw 51 deer from stand. He passed up 7 yearling bucks and couldn't get a shot at the 1 big guy we saw. He ended his trip with a nice doe. Not once did he complain about not shooting a buck. He judges his success by how much fun he has, which is what we all should be doing. However, he's also trophy hunting, whether he realizes it or not. Which one of you wants to be the first to tell my boy to stay in Kansas?

[FISHINGURU]

hopefully if there was some sort of QDM throughout the state and surrounding states that SEMN would sort of just blend in if you know what i'm saying instead of sticking out as the best trophy potential for the state.

its pretty safe to say if all our land was threatened we'd rather just keep things how they are....i'd rather have my hunting spots open for me then QDM.

i'd think it would relieve the pressure of SEMN though because that stuff is already starting to happen because buffalo county is just across the river....land price is spendy down there because of the hunting potential...but if there was similar potential in other areas it wouldn't be such a key area of focus.

looks like there's some nice typicals down there.

[Big Dave2]

Just got back from Kansas last night, I took my 13 year old son down for the rifle season. He killed his first deer, a yearling 6 pointer in MN this year with a bow. I told him he was going to have to shoot something bigger, or shoot a doe with his Kansas tag. He had the time of his life counting deer in Kansas, when we left he was up to 51. Granted, we counted the same deer 2 or 3 times over 3 and a half days, but he saw 51 deer from stand. He passed up 7 yearling bucks and couldn't get a shot at the 1 big guy we saw. He ended his trip with a nice doe. Not once did he complain about not shooting a buck. He judges his success by how much fun he has, which is what we all should be doing. However, he's also trophy hunting, whether he realizes it or not. Which one of you wants to be the first to tell my boy to stay in Kansas?

I personally have never told anyone that they should go or stay in any other state. I think we have a lot of opportunity right here. Your son could have easily shot his doe right here in MN.

Just curious, what kind of land were you hunting? Private or public?

[inspec_brad]

I will not disagre that semn COULD grow alot of really nice deer.............but we have the same issues as alot of places. People will not let them get to a mature age. Don't get me wrong, there are some really nice deer around this area. Just think how many more really nice deer would be here, or anywhere if we were to let the young ones go a year or two? If people have gotten some mixed signals from my post.....sorry. I just don't want folks to think that semn is the area to head to for the buck of a lifetime. Just seems like from some of the other topics and posts, that some people think of semn as the gotto place. IMO.

[Big Dave2]

Found the following somewhere on the internet. I'm not taking it as gospel because I'm unsure of the source but it is interesting.

Up to 2002 here is how the top ten states ranked in regard to most entries in the record books for whitetail deer:

STATE

# OF ENTRIES

1. IOWA

615

2. MINNESOTA

608

3. WISCONSIN

589

4. ILLINOIS

552

5. TEXAS

316

6. MISSOURI

285

7. KENTUCKY

279

8. KANSAS

255

9. OHIO

235

10. MICHIGAN

155

[inspec_brad]

Found the following somewhere on the internet. I'm not taking it as gospel because I'm unsure of the source but it is interesting.

Up to 2002 here is how the top ten states ranked in regard to most entries in the record books for whitetail deer:

STATE

# OF ENTRIES

1. IOWA

615

2. MINNESOTA

608

3. WISCONSIN

589

4. ILLINOIS

552

5. TEXAS

316

6. MISSOURI

285

7. KENTUCKY

279

8. KANSAS

255

9. OHIO

235

10. MICHIGAN

155

Upto 2002. That was 6 years ago. I would like to see that list from 2003 to the present.

[kr8r.tom]

iowa has entered 678 typ/ nontypical deer since 1998

wisconsin entered 704

illinois entered 916

minnesota entered 332 (hunting during the rut when mature bucks are most vulnerable)

read my post back on page 8

[inspec_brad]

iowa has entered 678 typ/ nontypical deer since 1998

wisconsin entered 704

illinois entered 916

minnesota entered 332 (hunting during the rut when mature bucks are most vulnerable)

read my post back on page 8

Just as I figured. Does Illinois have some sort of program they follow? Pretty impressive!

[Pickelfarmer]

boone & crockett enteries & rankings 1968-1988

1. minn. 166t 115nt

2. iowa 113t 87nt

3. wisc. 96t 41nt

4. ill. 67t 40nt

boone & crockett enteries & ranings 1998-08

1. ill. 525t 391nt

2. wisc. 512t iowa 268nt

3. iowa 410t wisc. 192nt

4. sask. 359t kansas 158nt

#9 minn. 206t 126nt

someone explain the obvious to me, why wisc. and iowa doubled up on us in enteries in a 20 year period, when we're still hunting the peak of the rut, the absolute best chance to get a mature buck and they're hunting after the peak and out harvesting us in mature bucks?

in 1975 mn. only harvested 64,000 deer (bucks only,thats why we hunt the peak of the rut, does were protected to get the population up then went to doe permits when the pop. stabilized/increased late 70's) and in '71 was a closed season, due to winters of 68-69. deer populations in the 70's at 300,000 400 in the 80's now wer're a million strong and just keeping pace in number of enteries (falling off in my opinion when population is doubled)

the 1.5yr old deer aren't protected with a 3"+ spike antler restriction and a brown it's down selfish killer, itchy finger attitude (billybob teeth! they're not billybob teeth there mine! yuk yuk. wanna take some venison home?yuk yuk. you can have the stuff from last year, it's got a little freezer burn on it yuk yuk and the one rumproast you'll have to eat around that area right there didn't have that new buttout tool yuk yuk. need to make room for the 4 i shot this year yuk yuk. and that chipmunk i got brown it's down fever on yuk yuk.was able to salvage the belly meat tho yuk yuk)

now i know some families actually eat 3-5 deer a year, but most and lets be honest, barely get one finished before the next season begins, and i doubt they will be willing to give up those t-bones out of their freezer to make room for more venison. the guy who braggs up the most about how much he looooves deer meat is usually the guy making midnight runs to a dumpster or road dich somewhere or uses it for foxbait.

Kr8r.tom, I disagree with you on most everything you have said on this topic. I am a meet hunter and my family eats what I bring home every year. I know you want to have a state that produces nice bucks for the wall but I am one that is totally on the other end of the spectrume from your views. I will say that when it comes to this topic I have gone over the top mostly on you and for that I opoligize. I did not need to attack your point of view and Im sorry. I just can't see where it is in the best intrest of most of us who do hunt for food in this state to make it a state to hunt Big bucks, which in my opinion do not taste good. To be honest with you, I have never shot a buck that would be concidered a trophy and I really dont care if I do.With that said you may ask "Whould I like to shoot a nice wall hanger"? sure I would, but its not at the top of my list. I don't need to shoot a deer to survive, I could buy hamburger instead much like most other MN hunters Im sure. All Im saying is that I like deer meet and I ALWAYS eat what I shoot. So thats my opinion and thats that. You have made it sound like people like me who hunt for the meet and not the horns are in some way less of a hunter or stupid and thats what got me worked up. But I would like to take this time to say I'm sorry for my previous reply to your posts and also to say that Though I disagree with your opinion on this topic I respect your view point.

[Big Dave2]

iowa has entered 678 typ/ nontypical deer since 1998

wisconsin entered 704

illinois entered 916

minnesota entered 332 (hunting during the rut when mature bucks are most vulnerable)

read my post back on page 8

How can you compare states anyway? Every state has a different set of circumstances. Habitat, climate, genetics, public vs. private land and other factors have a lot to do with this.

The world record bass is around 25 lbs and our state record doesn't even crack 9 lbs. We have all of these lakes here and still we can't even get close to the largest bass. Do we need regulations to grow bigger bass or should we just accept the fact that we have a shorter growing season and a lot harsher conditions than other states?

[inspec_brad]

Originally Posted By: kr8r.tom

iowa has entered 678 typ/ nontypical deer since 1998

wisconsin entered 704

illinois entered 916

minnesota entered 332 (hunting during the rut when mature bucks are most vulnerable)

read my post back on page 8

How can you compare states anyway? Every state has a different set of circumstances. Habitat, climate, genetics, public vs. private land and other factors have a lot to do with this.

The world record bass is around 25 lbs and our state record doesn't even crack 9 lbs. We have all of these lakes here and still we can't even get close to the largest bass. Do we need regulations to grow bigger bass or should we just accept the fact that we have a shorter growing season and a lot harsher conditions than other states?

You are comparing something that we as sportsman can or cannot have a impact on. We can't do much to grow big bass here. It just does not happen. We can however do our part to help grow bigger deer by letting the young ones go a year or two. Very simple.

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

Originally Posted By: kr8r.tom

iowa has entered 678 typ/ nontypical deer since 1998

wisconsin entered 704

illinois entered 916

minnesota entered 332 (hunting during the rut when mature bucks are most vulnerable)

read my post back on page 8

How can you compare states anyway? Every state has a different set of circumstances. Habitat, climate, genetics, public vs. private land and other factors have a lot to do with this.

The world record bass is around 25 lbs and our state record doesn't even crack 9 lbs. We have all of these lakes here and still we can't even get close to the largest bass. Do we need regulations to grow bigger bass or should we just accept the fact that we have a shorter growing season and a lot harsher conditions than other states?

You are comparing something that we as sportsman can or cannot have a impact on. We can't do much to grow big bass here. It just does not happen. We can however do our part to help grow bigger deer by letting the young ones go a year or two. Very simple.

Sounds simple, but is it?

[inspec_brad]

Well of course it is simple. How hard is it to not shoot young deer?

[candiru]

Well of course it is simple. How hard is it to not shoot young deer?

Alot of guys can't seem to measure a walleye when they have it in their hand.

[kr8r.tom]

big dave go back and read page 8 skip over the yuk yuk stuff(but if you have to, pretend your a hillbilly) and look at the numbers in those two 20 year periods.

in those periods we pretty much entered a comparible amount of b&c enteries but the deer populations have doubled and almost trippled, so if our deer herd age structure stayed the same as it was in the 70's-80's example, we should be entering 2-3 times more deer in the record books and therefore keeping up with the other states entry numbers. minnesota was the number one state for b&c deer enteries untill the late 80's early 90's and it started to fall off and the other states took off. in my opinion whats holding minnesota back is'nt lack of genetics or nutrition, its all our young bucks are killed off. 80% of buck regristration are 1.5 year old deer, they don't have a chance to get old.

[Big Dave2]

Everything you say could be true but it doesn't change the fact that I am against anymore restrictions on deer hunting.

It stll comes down to the fact that there are 2 different ways to look at the sport of deer hunting. I understand and respect your way and in my opinion there is still ample opportunity to hunt your way here in MN. I just ask that you try to understand and respect my way of hunting also.

This thread seems to be becoming redundant so I am obliged to let it die if you will.

[sparcebag]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

Originally Posted By: kr8r.tom

iowa has entered 678 typ/ nontypical deer since 1998

wisconsin entered 704

illinois entered 916

minnesota entered 332 (hunting during the rut when mature bucks are most vulnerable)

read my post back on page 8

How can you compare states anyway? Every state has a different set of circumstances. Habitat, climate, genetics, public vs. private land and other factors have a lot to do with this.

The world record bass is around 25 lbs and our state record doesn't even crack 9 lbs. We have all of these lakes here and still we can't even get close to the largest bass. Do we need regulations to grow bigger bass or should we just accept the fact that we have a shorter growing season and a lot harsher conditions than other states?

You are comparing something that we as sportsman can or cannot have a impact on. We can't do much to grow big bass here. It just does not happen. We can however do our part to help grow bigger deer by letting the young ones go a year or two. Very simple.

Minnesota does grow some of the biggest deer weight wise.Just like the Bass comparison the warmer states have smaller deer. less body mass for warm weather.If ya want big deer go further north,Now if ya want braggin rights for antlers,Hunt harder further in the thick stuff! We have woods not sporatic treed areas with open areas to spot these large antlered deer but their out there! Just get to their heavy protected areas,Be weary cause their smarter than you in their home areas.

[sparcebag]

big dave go back and read page 8 skip over the yuk yuk stuff(but if you have to, pretend your a hillbilly) and look at the numbers in those two 20 year periods.

in those periods we pretty much entered a comparible amount of b&c enteries but the deer populations have doubled and almost trippled, so if our deer herd age structure stayed the same as it was in the 70's-80's example, we should be entering 2-3 times more deer in the record books and therefore keeping up with the other states entry numbers. minnesota was the number one state for b&c deer enteries untill the late 80's early 90's and it started to fall off and the other states took off. in my opinion whats holding minnesota back is'nt lack of genetics or nutrition, its all our young bucks are killed off. 80% of buck regristration are 1.5 year old deer, they don't have a chance to get old.

One thing about B&C records is I have got deer and family members and friends who if wanted to register into records, probably would have names in these books but there only books,We've got deer wall hangers that are horns not mounts horns on a garage, tree layin in the back of a shed.

My point is most Mn hunters are not concerned with B&C, P&Y.Not untill latly anyway,Look in different newspapers around the state. See all those huge deer with enormous racks that get only as far as a pic in a paper.Thats enough show time for most Minnesotans!

[inspec_brad]

Everything you say could be true but it doesn't change the fact that I am against anymore restrictions on deer hunting.

It stll comes down to the fact that there are 2 different ways to look at the sport of deer hunting. I understand and respect your way and in my opinion there is still ample opportunity to hunt your way here in MN. I just ask that you try to understand and respect my way of hunting also.

This thread seems to be becoming redundant so I am obliged to let it die if you will.

There would not need to be restrictions in place from the state if more people would practice restrictions on their own. Some people just do not get it, so this will be my last reply/quote. Maybe?

[propster]

Time for another post Dave T

[sticknstring]

I was thinking the same thing...

[DaveT]

I don't have much else... How about waxing vs shaving?

[HNTNBUX]

For me shaving, and big bucks. For the ladies, waxing...

[kr8r.tom]

depends on if she's from "greenbush" or not.