Deer hunting as it should (could) be

[BRULEDRIFTER]

If you don't like to hunt in MN, that's fine. That will just allow us who love it here more opportunities. I love MN deer hunting, there are huge bucks here, it just takes a little work boys. It just makes it that much sweeter when you do get one, not to sound like a jack A** but go ahead and leave the state to hunt, bye, bye!

AMEN! Don't let the door hit your............

[inspec_brad]

If you don't like to hunt in MN, that's fine. That will just allow us who love it here more opportunities. I love MN deer hunting, there are huge bucks here, it just takes a little work boys. It just makes it that much sweeter when you do get one, not to sound like a jack A** but go ahead and leave the state to hunt, bye, bye!

What is wrong with wanting to have a better deer herd, and bigger? We can have a bigger, and better deer herd if a couple of new guidelines were to be implemented. Come down here and you can see that the number of deer have been decreasing for the last two seasons. I have another post about it. I think in the end, or at least hope, that we all would like to have a bigger, and better deer population.

[deerminator]

I would like a bigger herd so the DNR let's us get more than one deer again in a lottery area but in terms of telling me how many points a buck has to have before I shoot, no thanks. There are enough laws. Make sure there is a large, healthy population and leave it up to the individual hunters to decide what is a trophy to them. And as noted by many other individuals, there are countless big bucks out there in MN. They're just not there for the easy taking.

[BuckKiller]

ill agree with DaveT to a point... yes the deer could be better but the huntig hasn't been that bad ( at least i've never had a problem getting nice deer) if your not seeing deer maybe you need to look for a new spot

[Powerstroke]

I don't think anyone is saying that the hunting itself is bad. Everyone has to agree that the last few years have been the best deer hunting MN has seen since pre-settlement times. Even then deer weren't very populous in MN because the habitat didn't support them really.

I think its a poor attitude to tell people to get the heck out if they don't like it. If you think this is the best hunting in MN can be than you're only settling for average.

The only reason things can keep getting better is with constructive criticism. If people didn't think things could get better than we wouldn't be where we are today. The DNR wouldn't keep trying to do better if hunters didn't ask them to keep up the good work and to try harder.

There is always room for improvement and that's what we're discussing.

[Bear55]

Well said Powerstroke. The hunting here is good but many of us feel it could be that much better. Yes we do have some big bucks in this state but when looking at our neighbors a person can't help but think of what could be.

I have gone back and forth on the issue but after thinking about it for a while I'm really not for antler restructions or any kind of forced QDM. However tweaking a few laws to protect some of the younger bucks isn't a bad idea, maybe its time to remove party hunting or move the gun season back a week or two. Lets face it as things are now those yearling bucks don't have a chance.

[Crappie Rage]

Here is what I don't understand. Where is the sacrifice?? What is anyone giving up if the DNR did something to improve the age structure of bucks. Let's see...

1. Start the season later. Hmmm no sacrifice, heck maybe more hunting time if it were around Thanksgiving!

2. No Party hunting. One buck, but most of the state you can shoot multiple does. Plus it not about the antlers, right?

3. 4 point antler restriction. O.K. here is the only sacrifice, but the beauty is, it is only a one year sacrifice. Next year every fork horn you couldn't shoot is now a 2.5 year old 8 pointer with a rack. And every year after that there are all the 2.5 year olds running around.

On a side note, if some deer could not be shot at all and if you had to identify whether a deer was a legal buck or not, maybe there would be one less tragedy every hunting season.

[slimngrizzly]

Sign me up CrappieRage

[Hoyt4]

This is a well covered topic.And I agree things could change to make things better.But I do not want anyone saying how big of deer I need to shoot or putting restrictions on the deer.When I have a kid and bring them hunting if they want to shoot a spike or a forky hey I will let them.If they could not do this it's already hard to get kids in the woods now a days.If they could not harvest a deer because of the antler size that would be wrong.A trophy is up to the individual not the guy down the block asking why you shot that basket 6.There is a story to all animals harvested I think.I know many of my deer taken have been with my dad and we do not get to hunt together as much but when we do if he shoots a small buck or I do it's like we just got a booner.The excitement with my old man is great and I would never want that to change.I know I'm not going out just to kill a deer.I have many season's that I have let nice deer go just cause I wanted to watch them.When I shoot a doe or buck I'm looking at the grill not the antlers.I'm not a trophy hunter and never will be.That's not why I started hunting.Everyone want's to shoot a big deer and trust me as most of you know MN has some large deer.Friend of mine hunts public land in MN they shot 1)170 class 1)150 class and a 130 class off public land all on opening weekend this year.If you put some work in you will get them.Up to you to let them walk if want but don't come by me if I need some steaks on the grill doe, buck they taste great to me.

[BuckKiller]

yes! that is a good point a trophy deer isn't always based on size.

And ill back you up on this also- you can find big bucks on public land in MN. just need to be smarter the the deer lol

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: BARNEZ

By the way what is a good recipe for antlers?

I've never understood this logic. If you want food for the table, take a doe, not a small buck. Shooting a doe makes sense for many, many reasons. IMO shooting a little buck accomplishes three things usually: 1) it's great for those who haven't shot a buck or many deer before, 2) doesn't allow a small buck to grow into a big buck, and 3) most importantly, lets people pad their ego and say "I got my buck".

I hunt the 3A season on opening weekend. We can't shoot does down here.

[DaveT]

I've looked into some statistics from the state of MN and Iowa. MN has about 500,000 deer hunters and a herd around 1 million. We kill about 250,000 deer every year. From 1981 to 2000, MN put 300 bucks in Boone and Crockett.

Iowa has about 200,000 deer hunters and a herd around 300,000. They kill about 150,000 deer every year. From 1981 to 2000, Iowa put 500 bucks in Boone and Crockett.

They kill half of their deer herd every year and still find a way to have a well balanced herd that represents all age classes of deer. They kill half of their deer herd every year and still manage to put more bucks in the record book than we do. And they do it consistently.

How is that possible? Are the genetics in Iowa that much better than MN? Does the corn in Iowa have an antler growing supplement that MN corn doesn't?

It's possible because of sound management. There are hunters in Iowa that have the same "if it's brown it's down" mentality that we have here in MN. There are hunters in Iowa who only hunt for 2 or 3 days a year just like here in MN. Those hunters shoot the first legal deer they see just like they do here.

The difference is season structure and season dates. If you want all of your 1 and a half year old bucks to die, you hold your gun season during the rut. If you want an even harvest throughout your buck herd, you hold your gun season in December.

If you want every hunter to have equal opportunity, you limit each hunter to his or her own tag. If you want one group to fill out and another to get skunked, you allow party hunting.

If you want to virtually eliminate your buck herd, you allow unlimited antlerless permits and make no effort to educate the public about not shooting buck fawns.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus, and there are also some trophy bucks in MN. There's just a lot less than there used to be, and a lot less than there could be.

Once you've seen multiple bucks from stand, moving around naturally during the day, scraping, rubbing, fighting, breeding and doing the other things they do in a balanced herd, it is really hard to be satisfied with the deer hunting in this state.

IT IS NOT UP TO PAR!

Stop kidding yourselves and demand more from your DNR.

[Big Dave2]

Here is what I don't understand. Where is the sacrifice?? What is anyone giving up if the DNR did something to improve the age structure of bucks. Let's see...

1. Start the season later. Hmmm no sacrifice, heck maybe more hunting time if it were around Thanksgiving!

2. No Party hunting. One buck, but most of the state you can shoot multiple does. Plus it not about the antlers, right?

3. 4 point antler restriction. O.K. here is the only sacrifice, but the beauty is, it is only a one year sacrifice. Next year every fork horn you couldn't shoot is now a 2.5 year old 8 pointer with a rack. And every year after that there are all the 2.5 year olds running around.

On a side note, if some deer could not be shot at all and if you had to identify whether a deer was a legal buck or not, maybe there would be one less tragedy every hunting season.

I think that part of the reason that there may not be quite as large of bucks as there are in other states is because a lot of Minnesota's deer hunting land is public. Probably a lot more than any of these other states that have the huge bucks. So they may have large bucks but the only way you will ever have of accessing it will probably be to pay an outfitter. Here in MN on public land it is a lot harder to implement QDM unless you use those restrictive guidelines like in your post. If they implemented all of the things that you state there would be a lot less hunters buying deer tags each year because the laws would be too restrictive for most.

Where I hunt opening weekend in 3A if we couldn't shoot immature bucks we would harvest very few deer in the woods where we hunt. We can't shoot Does so that would leave us with nothing.

Take away party hunting and if you shoot your huge buck at 8:00am on opening morning, what do you do for the rest of the time that you are at deer camp?

[Wapiti]

This is a very long subject which I don't have time to read entirely, but I think I am seeing the premise of it.

MN does have some nice bucks, but if anyone thinks that the buck herd in this state is where it should or could be, they obviously haven't hunted in a state like Wisc, Iowa, Ill, Kansas, ND, Neb. etc. I'll invite anyone who thinks different to tag along on a couple of hunts with me next year...they will change their mind, Period! I'm not saying that deer hunting is all about the rack here either, I eat alot of venison from does every year, but let's remember what the original post was!

[jltimm]

DaveT Very good post, and i agree with you 100%! People just don't get it?

[Eskimoman]

Minnesota is not like those other states!! The land here is broken up into smaller parcells and recieves high hunting pressure. Also alot of it is done on public land. Public land is a good thing but qdm just doesnt work there. Also there arent outfitters with huge blocks of managed land here.

Most hunters her are hunters for the tradition, time with family and friends,and meat. A big buck is a bonus.

There are big bucks willing for those who work. But it wull never be like t.v.

[Wapiti]

The point being made has nothing to do with whether or not a person is willing to work for a great buck to harvest while hunting, it has to do with the quality of the buck herd.

Do you really think that QDM is the main reason for these other states excellent quality buck population? The herds are in the shape they are in because of the reasons explained earlier gun season timing, no party hunting, buck requirements, etc. Ther's nothing more head scratching than hunting ones home state for many, many hours on stand and seeing 1-3 mature bucks and then driving 2.5 hours(literally 2.5 hours) and seeing 10-15 mature bucks in less amount of time on stand. All of this in generally the same type of terrain, cover, etc. Explain that? Is it just because MN is so congested with foilage or the terrain is such that we just don't see these bucks but they are actually there? I think not!

[Powerstroke]

[Wapiti]

Are you serious? If all it takes is "a little work boys" as you say, then depending on how old you are, you must be adding on to the house all the time with the addition of each years new mount...or aren't you willing to put out "a little work" every year?

If you don't like to hunt in MN, that's fine. That will just allow us who love it here more opportunities. I love MN deer hunting, there are huge bucks here, it just takes a little work boys. It just makes it that much sweeter when you do get one, not to sound like a jack A** but go ahead and leave the state to hunt, bye, bye!

[hhguide]

I think its interesting that the early wisconsin deer numbers report 22% decline thats worse than minnesota. All states have there swings this was probably just a bad year for some and a great for other we always have cycles. I'm going to have to agree with putting in alittle work into it and theres always big deer out there!

[Wapiti]

Once again, from what I'm reading, that's not the point at all! It has nothing to do with the deer harvest, a states good or bad year, etc. It's about mature bucks or lack there of...I read someone's post earlier that said some people just don't get it...that was the best post on this subject! At least try and stay on point people!

[jnorm1984]

Wow.. what a great topic, I read through 6 pages and gave up (not a big reader, sorry 7-9), all really good points from both "sides" if there are sides. But from my own expirence... there are great bucks in minnesota, in fact one made me throw up 2 years ago while I was driving back from a bow hunt, this particular deer came out of the property I was hunting, which added to the sickness, 15 yards from the truck (real vomit, had to open the door), It was shot during ML season, had to have been the same deer, scored 198" and change, very close to being a typical......But, we do not see the numbers of big deer in this state that other states do, this is not a solid fact that I know for sure, but i got 3 buddies that hunt every year in Iowa, Wis., and IL, all private (not hunting ranches or anything thats managed, just farmland that they have perm to hunt), and they consistently see bucks in the 130's, they talk about 130's like we see basket 6's and 8's in MN.....Question for all??? Where are all these big bucks being shot, even in other states??? Private land!!!!!! Buffalo cty Wis... couldnt hardly find a piece of public land worth huntin if your life depened on it, its hard to accept, but private land doesnt have the pressure public stuff does( everyone knows this but), even if that land owner grants permission to everyone. Its possible, but its much more rare to see good bucks on public stuff...Think about guys, SE MN has big deer, very big deer, and there are some good WMA's in that area, but where do the real pigs get taken in that country- private, take a look at the lesner buck this year..I dont know guys, I may get attacked about my views on public land, but if you at least see,, or take "good deer" on public stuff every year, u are a very very good hunter.. and you got my props.. Ive tried hard, and I just dont have it... I see much bigger deer on the 60 (private) acres SW MN river bottom that I hunt much less than I do the public stuff in the mid-north very consitently..have fun, hunt hard, hard, GO MN!

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

You can still sit out on stand with a camera. Do you need to sit out there and shoot the deer for someone else? What fun is it for the other hunters in your party if you shoot 3 bucks and they don't shoot any? Is that fair to them? Those people are somewhat happy cause they get some meat, but if hunting is about getting out and doing it ourselves, then you shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone else's deer for them.

There are big bucks willing for those who work. But it wull never be like t.v.

Nobody is comparing it to canned TV hunts, but there are places nearby that hunting is like what you see on TV. Wouldn't that be nice. [/quote']

I thought it was all about the hunt, not the killing? If that's the case then what fun would it be for me to shoot a deer on opening morning when I am going to be at deer camp for a week? Do I just go home? I don't think I would have very much motivation to sit in a stand with just a camera when it is 10 degrees outside.

In my opinion I think it would be a mistake to start messing with these regulations such as antler size and party hunting just to please trophy hunters. The DNR is trying to entice more people into the dying sport, not keep people away.

I would say that if it is all about the trophy, wouldn't it mean more if it were a once in a lifetime type thing? I don't expect to catch a 10 lb walleye every time I go out. If I did it would no longer be that exciting anyway. Why should we expect to shoot a 12 pointer every year.

[BARNEZ]

A proud Minnesotan,cheers for the Vikings,Twins,Wild,Timberwolves,and hunts,fish his/her own state no matter what!

[BRULEDRIFTER]

A proud Minnesotan,cheers for the Vikings,Twins,Wild,Timberwolves,and hunts,fish his/her own state no matter what!

And this right here IS the best thing I've read on this forum! Nicely put!

[slimngrizzly]

There are big bucks in MN, work hard and maybe youll get a crack at one. Thats all true, but like DaveT originally said, its not near what it COULD be.

For all of you who havent been out of state..... you just have no idea. You think in other states mature bucks are easy and no challenge. Thats rediculous. Its such an amazing experience to see big mature deer acting like big mature deer, and in daylight!

Even in a place where 140 inch bucks are running all over.... you dont just whack them all down.... the bar rises. But what an amazing and fun opportunity to see those deer out on their feet on a regular basis!

Even from a nonhunter point of view. My mother has gotten more and more into deer and antlers over the years that Ive been so into it. She a shed hunter and is always pushing for people to pass on those little baby bucks. This year my 60 year old mother wants to drive up to Saskatchewan with me just so she can SEE big bucks running around in the daytime. In her 60 YEARS in MN, living in the country, shes never gotten the pleasure of viewing a large antlered buck just out and about acting normal. How sad is that?!?!

Now I know comparing Mn to Sask. is apples to oranges, but my point is someday I hope the young people in this state can experience these things, not just have the attitude that this is as good as it gets. It can be GREAT we just have to have some integrity and disipline to make it that way!

[Hoyt4]

Are you serious? If all it takes is "a little work boys" as you say, then depending on how old you are, you must be adding on to the house all the time with the addition of each years new mount...or aren't you willing to put out "a little work" every year?

So like I thought most guys are out there for status and a trophy room.Yes I have mounted a few deer because one was my fist with a bow and 2nd was the best we shot on our property at the time and I was young.Both p/y deer but I was not trying for antlers my dad talked me in to mounting the one and the first I shot was just because it was my first bow kill buck.Now since then if I get a good buck just cut off the antlers or give them to friends cabins.I'm out there to be with my friends and family not because something has to go on the wall.Go out of state and pay for you monster buck if that is why you hunt.I use venison all year can not eat the horns.Small buck,big buck or doe it's on the grill.

[Wapiti]

So you say that it's about the hunt, not the killing...I agree! So in your scenerio, if you have a shot opportunity on opening morning and you have the one tag to use (no party hunting) then you won't feel bad about letting it walk as you have all week to hunt and you don't want to tag out early because there will be no motivation to stay on stand. Remembering that you said it's all about the hunt, doesn't that strike you as a hair contradictory? I feel sorry for anyone that needs more motivation for being on stand than just seeing nature "happen" in the woods, fields, swamps, etc. Here's a scenerio, I probably get to bowhunt 60 days or so in a long season and I get one buck tag, if I shoot a buck early on, I'm done. So do I just skip going hunting the first 40 days knowing that I will have to probably pass on many deer hoping to shoot something bigger and also extending my season? To answer, No, because I enjoy the heck out of being there and seeing these deer. Remember, it's about the hunt, not the killing!

I have never and I would assume, will never consider myself a trophy hunter and this arguement, in my opinion, has not much to do with pleasing these "trophy hunters", it's about the management of the states deer herd.

Barnez, great point about being proud of your state, but once again, that's not even close to the point being discussed here!

Originally Posted By: Powerstroke

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

You can still sit out on stand with a camera. Do you need to sit out there and shoot the deer for someone else? What fun is it for the other hunters in your party if you shoot 3 bucks and they don't shoot any? Is that fair to them? Those people are somewhat happy cause they get some meat, but if hunting is about getting out and doing it ourselves, then you shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone else's deer for them.

There are big bucks willing for those who work. But it wull never be like t.v.

Nobody is comparing it to canned TV hunts, but there are places nearby that hunting is like what you see on TV. Wouldn't that be nice.

I thought it was all about the hunt, not the killing? If that's the case then what fun would it be for me to shoot a deer on opening morning when I am going to be at deer camp for a week? Do I just go home? I don't think I would have very much motivation to sit in a stand with just a camera when it is 10 degrees outside.

In my opinion I think it would be a mistake to start messing with these regulations such as antler size and party hunting just to please trophy hunters. The DNR is trying to entice more people into the dying sport, not keep people away.

I would say that if it is all about the trophy, wouldn't it mean more if it were a once in a lifetime type thing? I don't expect to catch a 10 lb walleye every time I go out. If I did it would no longer be that exciting anyway. Why should we expect to shoot a 12 pointer every year. [/quote']

[hhguide]

wapiti I am staying on point with numbers. if you dont have the numbers you can have selective harvest and get those big bucks people wont know if they are going to see another deer so they will shoot whatever it is regardless. I think we have to look at the numbers too. its an important part of managing the herd

[Wapiti]