Why is baiting illegal here?

[BobT]

Then why is it illegal to hunt over a pile of corn (on the stalk and covered in husk), but when it is standing (on the stalk and covered in husk) it is not?

I suppose if you spread your pile of corn over 150 acres it might be more closely representative of a standing field. If the corn is still standing, doesn't it also limit your viewing range?

Bob

[cribbageboy]

I have yet to see a food plot that is 150 acres. That would be a cornfield.

That is exactly my point shouldn't they put a size limit on the food plot? Like 10 acres of bigger? If you have a 1 acre food plot with standing corn, and you are in a raised stand that is 15 feet off the ground, 7 foot cornstocks will not decrease the ammount of shots you would be able to take.

Like I said, as the law states, as long as you call it a food plot it is legal no matter how big it is. From 1/5 acre to 200 acres. It is the planters choice. Maybe I'm wrong but the line between a baitpile and a foodplot seems way too close if you look at it that way.

I personally think that any form of feeding deer during the hunting season should be illegal. Deer have survived thousands of years with us not feeding them before the cold sets in and the snow falls, so I think they can go a few months without our help before winter.

[BobT]

I agree with you but I also have a question. I know you don't mean that these things should be illegal but...if any and all forms of deer feeding should be illegal, then what would you propose regarding gardens and crops?

We feed deer all summer long and sometimes all winter if the weather prevents us from harvesting in the fall. Deer are grazing my alfalfa year-round. They also graze my other crops and raid my garden from time to time.

Guess I'm playing a little devil's advocate.

Bob

[inspec_brad]

Is using something like Acorn Rage considered baiting?

[cribbageboy]

I guess if you feel that we need to feed deer before winter, then I feel that it should be illegal to hunt over it. TOTALLY MY OPINION THOUGH.

BULLMN1,

That would be a matter of opinion. Obviously the DNR doesn't see it as baiting, but that is how I would look at it. I would never use it, but that is just my opinion, and wouldn't look down on anyone for using things like Acorn Rage, and other foods or scents.

[deerminator]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Acorn rage is blatantly baiting. Anything with food in it is illegal. Acorn rage is basically ground acorns and soybean meal. And I know that because of those Busbice knuckeheads that pitch it on the Outdoors Channel. You know the ones that shoot big bucks over piles of it with their crossbows. Nothing against crossbows BTW if they're used legally. Just saying that's what they use a lot on that show.

[james_walleye]

It would be my guess that its because you could take the corn still on the stalks and covered and husk and place it in a pile 10 yards from your stand perfectly in the clear.

[cribbageboy]

Acorn Rage is illegal in MN? I suppose it is, just figured it wasn't since you can buy it just about anywhere. Then again, you can buy corn just about anywhere. lol.

[Scott Stein]

the way i look at it is if u cant sit in the woods and wait for a deer to come walking/chasing does then u shouldnt hunt.....i dont think it would be much fun to go sit over a bait pile and wait for deer to come in and take my pick of which one i wanna shoot

[FLnick87]

im going to go against what the majority of you are saying. I think hunting over bait has its time and place. Not everyone has the opportunity to hunt large pieces of land with food plots, crops, or countless amounts of deer. I think baitng deer is a great way to make the best of what you got and it is still never a sure thing. In wisc. u can only legally put out a gallon at a time so its not like your feeding a whole heard of deer. And you still have to put in your time scouting, knowing where the deer are going to be coming from, playing the wind, and taking a clean ethical shot.

[Odonata]

So you're saying if I put a pile of corn, regularly, anyplace in the woods, deer wont find it or change their habits to get to it? I don't agree.

I don't have deer in my yard on a regular basis. However, when I put corn out during the winter or anytime, they arrive! It's the same way in the woods. I don't want to cause a forum arguement, but putting bait out has nothing to do with scouting. At least not how I scout.

Baiting for the purposes of hunting, currently, is illegal. What more is there to discuss? It's not a discussion of the disparity between the "who has large pieces of land, lots of deer vs. those without". I don't see the benefit to hunting with making baiting legal. Call me ignorant, that's my opinion.

[FLnick87]

how do u scout? put ur stand over ur planted food plot?its not like 20 deer come flocking to the bait at all hours of the day. i like seeing deer when I hunt and do whatever is legal in order to do so. I know it is not legal here but in my opinion if food plots which are made for the only purpose of feeding animals are legal, baiting should also

[Scott Stein]

how do u scout? put ur stand over ur planted food plot?its not like 20 deer come flocking to the bait at all hours of the day. i like seeing deer when I hunt and do whatever is legal in order to do so. I know it is not legal here but in my opinion if food plots which are made for the only purpose of feeding animals are legal, baiting should also

u find a trail thats being used nicely then put a trail cam by it or a mock scrape

[Odonata]

How do I scout? On foot. I hunt the bush, no food plots. I have hunted plots before, but prefer the woods. I make note of where things are in the woods, what the sign tells me and what the deer do/patterns. I don't have 20 deer flock to my stands either, but if you do your homework you may see a few. If my stand is unproductive, I move. I do what is legal and I see deer. If I wasn't seeing deer I would wonder what I need to change as a hunter. I am the variable when hunting, not the deer. They are out there, we need to adjust in order to understand what they're doing in the different conditions of the season. Are we looking for the most convenient way to see deer or hunting?

[Musky Buck]

Great points by all, it sounds like the haves and the have nots, sell your fishing gear, season tickets to the vikes, buy some quality land or turn it into quality land. Who had that hunter as the variable is right on, my experiences, I've downed 21 bucks with the best bait possible, the rut, patience, passing on immature bucks since 1994, scouting year round, I bought quality habitat in one of the better counties in MN, if you want to know it's Ottertail county. Will someone answer why we can't bait waterfowl ? The food plot discussion is so simple, to the food plot guys thanks for doing it, you also help grouse,turkeys,pheasants,rabbits,squirrels,deer,etc. and during winter it helps those animals/birds a lot. The corn bucket isn't helping anything once its empty, people who bait must have major squirrel issues. Of course neither way guarantees anyone success, it increases your chances. My only example for how bait works happens to come from this year. I found on my neighbors land 3 bow stands and also a pile of corn 10 yards in front of each one. 50 yards away out of the swamp is 100 acres of standing corn, I thought well how are these piles of corn going to attract anything with that field right there, I was happy not to find any gutpiles. These people have bow permission and I have rifle/musket permission, I see 1 of these guys uptown and found out 4 of them actually hunt there, they said been a great year, have you been scouting it yet, I said no, no need to my stand is where it needs to be, I said how great a season, 14 is all he said, they took 14 deer off of those bait piles with 100 acres of still standing corn right there, irrigated 10 foot high jungle corn, worst part is I didn't go hunt there because you can't hunt baited areas correct ? I'm still trying to figure out my next move, turn them in ? go to the neighbor farmer and report ? These are guys that have the utmost respect from our community and are viewed as tremendous bowhunters, now I wonder how many years has this been going on, they'll gladly brag about the numbers of deer they take, I have no clue if they tag them all or what, no gutpiles because I guess they 4 wheeler them out and gut them at home. If you doubt the story give me a holler and I'd gladly show you the whole set-up, worst part is the farmer told me he didn't see my truck on the approach this year and that maybe he'd let a few others in to rifle hunt, I didn't tell him the reasons. Normally I wouldn't walk past there stands but took the shortcut out one day while scouting, that proved the baiting/no baiting theory for me, you have the best bait called the rut !

[inspec_brad]

Great points by all, it sounds like the haves and the have nots, sell your fishing gear, season tickets to the vikes, buy some quality land or turn it into quality land. Who had that hunter as the variable is right on, my experiences, I've downed 21 bucks with the best bait possible, the rut, patience, passing on immature bucks since 1994, scouting year round, I bought quality habitat in one of the better counties in MN, if you want to know it's Ottertail county. Will someone answer why we can't bait waterfowl ? The food plot discussion is so simple, to the food plot guys thanks for doing it, you also help grouse,turkeys,pheasants,rabbits,squirrels,deer,etc. and during winter it helps those animals/birds a lot. The corn bucket isn't helping anything once its empty, people who bait must have major squirrel issues. Of course neither way guarantees anyone success, it increases your chances. My only example for how bait works happens to come from this year. I found on my neighbors land 3 bow stands and also a pile of corn 10 yards in front of each one. 50 yards away out of the swamp is 100 acres of standing corn, I thought well how are these piles of corn going to attract anything with that field right there, I was happy not to find any gutpiles. These people have bow permission and I have rifle/musket permission, I see 1 of these guys uptown and found out 4 of them actually hunt there, they said been a great year, have you been scouting it yet, I said no, no need to my stand is where it needs to be, I said how great a season, 14 is all he said, they took 14 deer off of those bait piles with 100 acres of still standing corn right there, irrigated 10 foot high jungle corn, worst part is I didn't go hunt there because you can't hunt baited areas correct ? I'm still trying to figure out my next move, turn them in ? go to the neighbor farmer and report ? These are guys that have the utmost respect from our community and are viewed as tremendous bowhunters, now I wonder how many years has this been going on, they'll gladly brag about the numbers of deer they take, I have no clue if they tag them all or what, no gutpiles because I guess they 4 wheeler them out and gut them at home. If you doubt the story give me a holler and I'd gladly show you the whole set-up, worst part is the farmer told me he didn't see my truck on the approach this year and that maybe he'd let a few others in to rifle hunt, I didn't tell him the reasons. Normally I wouldn't walk past there stands but took the shortcut out one day while scouting, that proved the baiting/no baiting theory for me, you have the best bait called the rut !

Pee on the piles of corn. HaHaHa!

[FLnick87]

Well i guess our views on the subject are probably different due to the types of land we hunt. I just dont see anything unethical or unsportsman like by using bait.

[vister]

If everyone wants to call baiting unethical, and by using it if legal that would make me not a true hunter, then what are you? if baiting wouldn't be fair chase, then neither would be using modern compound bows or firearms. so the way i hear it here, i had better sharpen a stick if i want to be a true hunter in everyones opinion.

Sure bait can HELP lure deer in. doesn't mean they will walk right up to it. if they see or smell ya, they still won't come in. Maybe it should be illegal to bait a hook too! isn't it the same thing. I believe it is. doesn't mean you are always going to catch a fish, but it sure betters your odds. after all, earthworms ARE an invasive species.

I don't see baiting to be such a bad idea. I just don't think they have figured out exactly how CWD is spread, and by banning baiting, its just one more way to maybe control it.

baiting deer has been illegal long before the worries of CWD. If anyone here can tell me exactly why the DNR doesn't allow it, then lets hear it. Until then, i have had enough of the "unethical" or not a "true hunter" debates. afterall, i am probably a more ethical sportsman then half the people here, but everyone thinks not because maybe some day i'd like to hunt over a pile of apples??

[minnesotahunter]

cribbageboy- 4 rows of standing corn is a lot different then 4 rows of cut corn laying on the ground. Think about it..... whats easier to eat, peeling the husk off the corn then eating it off the cob or eating canned corn already taken off the cob. Your failing to realize the intent behind this law. Im not saying your "bashing" the DNR, but there are reasons why 4 rows of standing corn is legal and corn on the ground isnt. And for you saying you have yet to see a food plot bigger than 10 acres i would invite you to come and take a look at the two biologic food plots in elk river that are roughly 20 acres a piece. I take great pride in producing a deer herd that is 1) healthy 2)abundant and 3) one that grows large mature whitetail. So for you to say that you have yet to see anyone do this pretty much is looking down on us that put ample amount of time into our food plots.

[Scott Stein]

how do ppl see putting a pile of corn or whatever by ur stand and waiting for deer that are patterned to coming to this pile ethical....be a real hunter and scout the woods or wherever you are hunting by looking for well traveled trails finding bedding areas and scrapes and puttin a stand by them and if that doesnt work find something that does....to me baiting seems like its a way for lazy ppl to cheat...im sick of all this baiting [PoorWordUsage] in the "cuffs & collars" of the outdoor news there are so many reports of ppl baiting it makes me sick! mnhunter we have food plots too but we only bow hunt over them...i know how much time and effort it takes to keep these plots maintained and when u do take a deer off them it seems very rewarding...unlike hauling pales of corn to your stand....food plots take alot more time!

[Big Dave2]

cribbageboy- 4 rows of standing corn is a lot different then 4 rows of cut corn laying on the ground. Think about it..... whats easier to eat, peeling the husk off the corn then eating it off the cob or eating canned corn already taken off the cob. Your failing to realize the intent behind this law. Im not saying your "bashing" the DNR, but there are reasons why 4 rows of standing corn is legal and corn on the ground isnt. And for you saying you have yet to see a food plot bigger than 10 acres i would invite you to come and take a look at the two biologic food plots in elk river that are roughly 20 acres a piece. I take great pride in producing a deer herd that is 1) healthy 2)abundant and 3) one that grows large mature whitetail. So for you to say that you have yet to see anyone do this pretty much is looking down on us that put ample amount of time into our food plots.

Note from admin, please read forum policy before posting again, thank you.

I think some are misunderstanding what cribbageboy is stating in his analogy. He is talking about the same corn on the cob still on the stalk that you are talking about. Only, if you cut that same corn and leave it lay on the ground then it is suddenly illegal.

And personally, you are correct in my case, I don't understand the intent behind the law. That is what we are discussing here and I have not yet gathered from anyone what the intent is other than it makes people feel better about themselves because they have some sort of guilty feelings about killing animals for food.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating the ILLEGAL baiting of deer, but if it were to become legal for some reason I would try it.

The reasons I have heard so far are:

1. Unethical/fair chase. I don't really buy that one since we don't give cows and pigs a chance to escape before we slaughter them. Hunting is the same thing, it's killing an animal for food. It is perfectly ethical to bait fish, bear and even deer if you are in the right state.

2. Disease spreading prevention. I can get that one except for the fact that the act of actually feeding deer in feeders is what possibly helps spread these diseases. If that were to be made illegal then I could buy this argument but as long as the DNR in it's wisdom allows the recreational feeding of deer in feeders then this argument is not viable.

3. Baiting causes unnatural deer movement and is unfair to hunters who do not bait. I understand this but the argument here is that food plots which are usually planted for the sole purpose of hunting over and killing deer do the same thing to those who do not chose or cannot plant food plots. I think food plots are great and help all types of wildlife make it through tough winters but you could plant these and not hunt directly over them. Plus some of these so- called "food plots" are nothing more than a farmer leaving up 1 or 2 combine swaths of corn in years when the corn around has all been harvested by deer opener and hunting over it during firearms season. This creates a natural draw since there is no other corn in the area. Then he fires up the combine and harvests it when he is done hunting.

[minnesotahunter]

big dave- your arguments are combining all of us "food plot" hunters into one category which is not right. Yes there are people that do hunt over the 1 or 2 swaths of rows of corn but then there are us who plant large food plots for the sole purpose of growing big deer and maintaining the herd, so i find it offensive that you can think i am within that category of select hunters. your first argument does not make sense to me about fair chase. cows and pigs are domesticated..... whitetail deer are 100% wild and hunting them is 100% fair chase. your argument would be good if we all hunted deer inside of a cage.

[jkcmj]

I am one of these hunters that puts up an acre of two of sweet corn, harvest enough for my family to eat and can, hunts over it, then puts the cows in to clean it up after the bow season is over.

If we leave it out, the turkeys, deer, coon etc. build up when snow gets heavy and start causing vehicle collisions on the road(two last winter right in front of the house), damage to the sheds(racoons move in near the food source, and the turkeys hang out evenings on the hills above the plot and spend the afternoons raking the woods clean so errosion sets in.

I take care of all of these problems by cleaning up my bait(food plot) at the end of the season.

[BobT]

Quote:

the way i hear it here, i had better sharpen a stick if i want to be a true hunter in everyones opinion.

Real men don't need a tool!

Bob

[james_walleye]

I've stated over and over on this thread what happened when i put a pile of corn out with a camera over it along edge of a picked cornfield, on a farm where i havent harvested a "trophy" deer in 14 years. After seeing the results i can see why baiting is illegal.

[Black_Bay]

Question - Why is baiting illegal?

Answer - Because the DNR says so. Pretty simple huh? If you want specifics contact them.

Lets debate why it's illegal to drive 80 mph next. Afterall I'm a great driver so it can't be because it's not safe.

[B. Amish]

Quote:

1. Unethical/fair chase. I don't really buy that one since we don't give cows and pigs a chance to escape before we slaughter them. Hunting is the same thing

You can't be serious with this comparison.

[Musky Buck]

Did you guys read my bow story ? 14 deer on bait piles within about 200 yards of one another all the while having 80-100 acres of irrigated stuff standing 50 yards away, the deer still came to the bait and were shot up bigtime, so if baiting is legal someday bow hunters will get the start on it mid-sept through the end of the year, rifle, muzzleloader. I think the question is what do you hope to accomplish by baiting when you put that pile out, what's the hope ? We need to bait for deer because........... Heck lets start baiting turkey and waterfowl as well, I haven't shot a MN duck in 10 years, feel to bad for them, not nearly enough around so lets bait waterfowl and slaughter them, of course I don't wish for that. It's the ulmitate attractant, I think that is what bait is.

[Big Dave2]

Question - Why is baiting illegal?

Answer - Because the DNR says so. Pretty simple huh? If you want specifics contact them.

Lets debate why it's illegal to drive 80 mph next. Afterall I'm a great driver so it can't be because it's not safe.

I guess things just aren't that simple for me. Laws are written and implemented by elected legislaters not the DNR. The DNR just enforces the laws. Not to say that the DNR doesn't endorse this law because I am sure that they do but they don't write legislation.

I think there is always room for improvement in our laws, that's why more are written every day. I don't believe that we should just always sit by and never question any decision that our elected officials make.

But you do make a good point. I think I will contact them and see what they say. I have contacted the DNR before and asked a question and it has been answered quickly and concisely.

I think that you would not get any argument from anyone that you ask that the speed limits are what they are on certain roads for safety reasons.

[Bear55]

I really don't see how people can compare food plots to baiting no matter the size. I'm sorry but even a small food plot, lets say 1/4 acre, is not nearly as attractive to deer as a concentrated pile of apples or corn. Plus a small food plot doesn't have that much food so it won't be as attractive to a large number of deer. People see food plot loaded with deer on tv and thing that a small food plot will be loaded with deer all fall, anyone can just show up and shoot whatever they want. I suggest you go out and make a small food plot and see how you do.

The questions is where to draw the line, small food plots, gardens, small opening in the woods, what about a small group of oaks? Are we not suppose to hunt in a small patch of oaks because its too small of a food source? Some of the comparisons here are getting a little ridiculous. What's next should we compare baiting to hunting a funnel? I mean it is unfair that the deer have to travel through such a small area and if we can't bait that should be illegal too?