Smallie Regulation St. Cloud to Coon Rapids - your input

[smallie_hawgin]

Dude...... Thanks??? I think?? We have been talking about that elusive 23" from the river for years.... hmmmm.... Funny how once you start putting fish on a board..... there isn't a whole lot of talk about them??? Thanks for making the boards man!!!!

A quick synopsis of last night....

It was a good meeting. I presented the population information, the creel information and showed the council and all the tournament participants the data we have. I suggested a few alternatives for the tournament as well. Like digital photo tourney.... (which by the way is being used in other venues with great success) Just think, there could be a tournament anywhere regardless of regulations.... as long as there is a catch and release season.... no problem.

They tried to discredit the DNR studies.... which is not unheard of of course I offer that there are few other studies or information of this quality or duration (30+years of electrofishing data from Xcel Energy and DNR) for a fishery like this anywhere in North America. So, unless they have or know of some other information available from another country .... this is certainly the best information out there.

We will be hosting the two public meetings and you can write, email or even call until October 1 2008.

I will encourage the entire online community to do so weather positive or negative to either myself

[email protected] 320-616-2450 x 225

or to Paul Diedrich [email protected] 763-675-3301

We will be compiling all the comments until the October 1 date. Please do email, write or stop by the public meeting.

I will make the information sheet available with the quick facts we handed out to everyone last night.

[EBass]

I emailed the mayor! Every lil bit helps right. So do the folks that run the tourney visit this site?

[Note from admin: Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

[Scott M]

Bass regulations could impact local fishery

by Mandy Moran Froemming

Anoka County Union

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources faced plenty of opposition from local anglers when they shared a plan to impose new fishing regulations on smallmouth bass.

The proposed regulations, which could start in 2009, would put a protected slot of 12 to 20 inches on the smallmouth along the Mississippi River from the mouth of the Crow River at Dayton to the Coon Rapids Dam. There would also be a three fish daily bag limit, down from the current six.

This slot limit is already in place on the Mississippi, upstream from Dayton. The regulation was first put in place on the river from Clearwater to Elk River in 1990. In 1999 it was also extended from St. Cloud to Dayton.

More than 30 anglers showed up at a meeting Monday during an Anoka City Council work session where Eric Altena, area fisheries manager with the DNR at Little Falls, outlined the plan.

“I love this river,” said Altena. “I came to fall in love with it by working on it, by fishing it. I’m not here to make things miserable.”

The opposition for the proposed regulations was clear from both the city council and the fisherman in attendance Monday.

Altena said studies have shown the fish population is healthier in the regulated areas – there are more fish and there are bigger fish where the protected slot is in place.

This area has been studied by the DNR since 1999.

The study showed the average size of the bass caught in the regulation zone as 13.4 inches. The average size in the non-regulation zone was slightly less, at 13 inches.

DNR stats show that only 2.4 percent of the nearly 58,000 smallmouth caught annually on the Mississippi are kept.

There is particular concern for the future of the smallmouth bass tournament held every July, now in conjunction with Anoka Riverfest.

The 50-boat tournament has been a 21-year tradition in Anoka, creating a fund-raising return for the city and other local service clubs.

The new regulations could wipe out the smallmouth bass tournament as it is currently operated.

Councilmember Jeff Weaver, the tournament’s organizer, said the data collected on the fish caught at the tournament supports the theory that the smallmouth fishery is doing just fine near Anoka.

“When we started the tournament the average fish size was 0.67 pounds,” he said. “This year the average was 2.74. That’s the same trend that has been going on in the regulated area.

“We have educated anglers instead of regulating them. More government regs down here just aren’t going to make a difference.”

Altena agreed that tournament fishermen are good stewards of the river.

“But that’s just one day, it’s the other 270 I’m worried about,” he said. “You have to look at the long haul. You have great angling that could get better. Those protected fish come down here and you may be seeing the effects of that.”

The DNR estimates the economic impact of the current fishery along the Mississippi at $2.1 million annually.

Altena suggested changes to the tournament, which could include a digital weigh in. He also said weigh boats on the water could be used, but admitted it would be a challenge.

According to a DNR survey of anglers in 2007, support for the new regulations were high. Altena said of the 531 parties surveyed, 95.7 percent said they supported the current smallmouth regulations and 94.1 percent agreed with extending the current regulation down to Coon Rapids Dam. That number drops to 89.2 percent if you only account for the parties surveyed in the non-regulated zone near Anoka.

But there was nowhere near that kind of support from the anglers who attended Monday. More than half a dozen put up their hands when asked if they had been included in last year’s survey.

But not everyone was opposed to the new protected slot.

Ramsey resident Andrew Frette fishes the Mississippi three or four times a week.

He told council rather than heading south to Anoka he goes north, putting on extra miles, to fish closer to Monticello.

“The fishing is better and it’s a lot more fun,” he said. “You don’t see the numbers down here that you do up there.”

Guy Scott from Shoreview agreed, explaining his business was going north has he looks for better fishing.

A public meeting is planned for Thursday, Sept. 18 at Anoka City Hall. After this meeting, Altena said the DNR will weigh the public comment against the data collected in studies over the last year to make its decision on whether or not additional regulations will be implemented.

Avid local angler Tom Hammer, who was surveyed last year, said he didn’t put much stock in the DNR study. His sentiments also supported what most of the local anglers were telling the state agency.

“It ain’t broke,” said Hammer. “Please don’t try to fix it.”

***************************************************************

The majority doesn't always represent. Gotta get more folks out at these meetings to speak up in favor of the regs....

[MSRiverdog]

The only reason as I see it for not implementing the rules is the Anoka Tourament, I don't buy into Mr. Weaver's spin for a second. 2.74# average? How much would that be if the fish were weighed and recorded properly, without the basket and plexiglass? It's easy to say you don't put too much stock into or don't believe the information, I believe it. I also believe that there were at least as many folks there that were for as against the rule change, just quieter mannerism's. I also find it interesting after all the buzz that was going around a month before the tournament about Mr. Weaver not wanting to do it, again, rumors but this has been said to me in years past also. The DNR figures don't lie, I base that on the on the person giving them to us, Eric Altana, I know him well enough to say emphaticly that he would never lie or skew the figures, lord knows he and I disagree on a number of things, but not this. In this case I believe you can take his numbers to the bank, and improve the fishing for the majority folks that don't fish the tournament the other 364 day's a year. In respect to local economy, there would be a lot more money spent in this area if folks knew this was a trophy fishery instead of having to go North to get a really good fish as Andy and Guy pointed out.

[gunderson21]

Something needs to be done about the orono dam area. I have seen far too many times a certain group of individuals come down and keep every small mouth they would catch. On top of it they would bring there children down to use more lines and keep more fish. It's really sad.

[jipper]

The one thing that I don't understand is why its from the crow river to the coon rapids dam. A lot more fish get keeped below the coon rapids dam then above it. I think if they make it a 3 fish limit state wide would help it a lot. I have been fishing the river for about 30 years and have keeped only a couple of smallies.( deep hook set on a tub/worm )I think that everybody wants to see the smallmouth fishing keep getting better. Making a state wide 3 fish limit would do that. Just my opinion.

[smallie_hawgin]

Well,

Just got the invite to two other meetings. One in Champlain on the 25th of August 7PM. I will be presenting the same info and I am sure will hear from some of the other uninterested groups as well. If you support this potential regulation change. It would be great to have an alternative view point there.... I suppose even if you don't support it. I would like the opportunity to talk about the information available and the rationale why.... So you can make an informed decision.

The other meeting is with the City of Ramsey Sept 2nd 5:30 pm.

Just an FYI for folks out there....

[river rat316]

I will do my best to be at the Champlin one, I have an opinion and want it to be heard

[smallie_hawgin]

Thanks RR.....

[Mark Christianson]

I gotta make that meeting and bring the recorder. It ought to be very "colorful".

[Grant]

I gotta make that meeting and bring the recorder. It ought to be very "colorful".

no kidding... 'tis a bit of a hot-button topic for a few folks here and there

[Mark Christianson]

I was talking about Riverrat alone!

[MSRiverdog]

IMHO, more big fish will be kept down here because they can be, this area draw's all kinds of anglers, a lot more will be catch and keep if there is any size to them. A lot of these folks are looking for Walleye's and there aren't that many (go to a lake) but want to bring fish home, if for no other reason than to keep the wife happy that they have fish for dinner. They are harder to catch in this stretch because of the water depth in almost the whole pool, ripe for a "I'm keeping it" mindset, a lot of these fish are the travelers from up river. A much higher percentage of folks that fish in front of my place are live baiters. The folks making the most noise against the rule are catch and release guy's that are willing to soak live bait for hours and fish on spots that most of the visitor's will not try to get to, for Anoka Tounament I guess, one day a year, no I don't do live bait. I've had people follow me many times, and seen them on spots I fish later. Fishing in this stretch has really sucked this year for whatever reason, time for me to follow them. I've fished a few lakes that are C & R, the best fishing I've ever seen, but I just like to catch em. If I didn't live here I sure wouldn't go out of my way to come here to fish Smallies, myself and EVERY Smallie guy I fish with or know will tell you that although there are good ones swimming here.

[Mark Christianson]

Another public hearing tonight at the Champlin City Council.

http://www.ci.champlin.mn.us/cityhall2007.html

Starts at 7pm.

For anyone that would like to hear first hand whats going on with this, please plan on attending.

Surveys among angles last year on the Miss from St Cloud to the Coon Rapids dam showed over 90% of people interviewed agreed on the reg change to go to 3 bass total in possession with 3 under 12" and/or one over 20".

[Daze Off]

What are the details on the Sept. 2nd one in Ramsey - will try to be at that one and the one on the 18th in Anoka -

SH - Thanks for your efforts to preserve this resource!

Daze

[smallie_hawgin]

What are the details on the Sept. 2nd one in Ramsey - will try to be at that one and the one on the 18th in Anoka -

SH - Thanks for your efforts to preserve this resource!

Daze

Thanks Daze.

Ramsey is the same format... 5:30 PM at their city hall... Map to Ramsey City Hall

Just presenting the info so people can make a decision with all the available data.

[Daze Off]

Can't imagine a reason why I would not be at both....see you there hopefully!

[Scott M]

How did Monday's meeting in Champlain go? I heard the city had formally moved to NOT support the regulation. So much for giving the DNR a fair shake...host a meeting and pass a resolution that you are against a proposed regulation before the open house is held. Any truth to this?

[Mark Christianson]

You got it wrong.

The Champlin city council voted to not interject in the DNR's business. Let them do what they are paid to do.

NICE!

[EBass]

Quote:

The Champlin city council voted to not interject in the DNR's business

Sweet

[Scott M]

That's good to hear...A rumor without a leg to stand on will get around some other way

[Mark Christianson]

Now if Anoka would get out of the micro management business of fisheries.

Hopefully Ramsey is bright enough to not try and intervene like Anoka currently is.

[Shack]

SH,

I would also like to say thanks for what you do around here.

Also, I love that River X footage and the Franny footage and ER footage.

[riverwader]

I agree with shackbash, thank you SH for all your hard work.

Just a little information for everyone. At these meetings SH gives all of his information which proves that the upper portion of the river has increased fish size and numbers since the start of the size restrictions. Then the public ask some questions, which is usually a few of the people that want the anoka tourny to continue, they say the dont believe the science and that the DNR is trying to pull something over on them. Please show up to these meetings and voice you opinions. These changes are going to do nothing but good for the rivers fishery. I have been to the Anoka meeting and I will be at the Ramsey meeting next week

[smallie_hawgin]

Thanks guys.....

I really try to do my best for the resource. Just showing the fisheries information and doing the best I can, with what information we have, to best manage a truly unique and sensitive resource....

For the record I do enjoy fishing tourneys as well.... So I am not against them in general or against this particular one at all...

But; the value and preservation of the resource is more important than any one event for sure.

Funny thing with this deal, is that the reg if it does go in place does not prevent the tournament at all. Make it challenging maybe... I offer that this could be one of the first truly jetboat oriented tourneys on the river.... Think about it... if the tournament operates under the regulation, technically they could even go all the way up to St. Cloud Dam!!!! 60 miles of river available!!!

Besides.... I do this because I kinda like smallies...

[EBass]

Thanks SH - There are plently of 11 3/4" smallies in the Anoka stretch for their tourney:)

[Craig Sanders]

I just heard of this proposal last night. I do like the idea of CPR for bass. But I totally am against the notion of the DNR's proposal. This does eliminate tournaments! As there are tournaments where only one person is in the boat thus this puts the one angler boats in a compromised position. Also there are tournaments where there is a minimum of 12" lengths for each bass in order to weigh in. So this regulation would only allow 1-person boats to bring in only one fish over 20". Not cool. I have seen many a tournament on the Miss won with a bag of 17" - 19" bass. Now I could see the potential of the restriction if the DNR would require tournaments to register for that one day and allow the fish (all fish over 12") to be caught and released unharmed back to the waters. B.A.S.S. has also done many studies documenting that over 95% of bass survive (even in hot climate waters in the Southern states) and return back to their origal place they were caught.

[smallie_hawgin]

Not sure if I agree there Craig. First of all the regulation would make it challenging in this particular area I will agree with that. However, it does not prevent or eliminate any tournament what so ever. The tournament in question is a team tournament that would allow 6 fish in the boat. For others, yes it would require a 3 fish bag, but, all those who fish the same tournament would obviously have to abide by the same regulations. So I guess I don't quite see how this prevents tourneys from taking place....

Now it may not have the pride of the bag of 17-19 inch fish, but, it would still be a tournament I would be willing to participate in....

But in all honesty, this is not about the tournament at all. This is making a choice about preserving and enhancing a fishery that will be under more and more pressure as human populations increase in the area.... Projections show the Ramsey, Anoka, Champlin area growing up to 14% by 2020. Will you or anyone else guarantee that all these new folks will have the same C&R ethic that many of us have on this site?? This I highly doubt..... Just a little thought to think outside the little box we often put ourselves in....

[Sartell Angler]

Tournaments shmernaments...take the tournament fishing elsewhere if the special regs no longer make it feasible. Preserving QUALITY fishing for future generations is far more important.

[jipper]

If the DNR wants to protect the smallies make it a state wide 3 fish limit. Why just pick on 10 mile stretch. If they really want to make a difference make the whole Mississippi river C/R not just certain parts. More smallies get keeped down river then up river. I just think that they really should do that instead.