AR help needed...

[Moose-Hunter]

Howdy All...

Now that I have my .243 bolt gun up and running, I'm looking to buy or build an AR based rifle. With all the options available, how does one, as a newbie to the AR platform, make any valid decisions? Talk to 10 AR owners and you'll get 10 different opinions... AHHH!!!!

I'm looking for an "all around", fast aiming yote shooter that may see some P-Dog duty next summer. Most likely in .223. I've got a Leuplod 4.5x14 VX-III just waitng for a good home. I've looked at DPMS, RR, Olympic, Bushy and more. My head is spinning from all the choices!!

I'd like to keep the price tag, buy or build, around the $1000 mark, give or take... I believe a little direction is in order... Do you have any advice for this newbie?

[picksbigwagon]

There is a guy in Bemidji named Mike Milli, his company is Dedicated Technology. He is called Dtech on that predator site you just joined. He can answer 105% of the questions you have and with your price range, he can build you an ar that will absolutely shoot better than any gun you currently own. Do a search for his company and call him, you won't be sorry. I bought my olympic K8 from him, so did another friend. Another friend just had him build one for him too, but I have yet to see it or shoot it, yet...

You are right about the opinions though...........

[Valv]

I just sold my good AR-15 for your price range including scope.

I did choose DPMS and I was very happy with it, I still have one of them but not as accurate and as heavy like the one I just sold. I figured the 500 yards shots are not in my near future.

I had some people with Bushmasters complimenting my gun, in fact one tried to sell me his....

I did buy a 20" bull stainless then upgraded to a 24" barrel, accuracy improved, and sound was less (the ARs are VERY loud) I had a 2 stage JP trigger, and was using 55gr VMax Hornadys for the accurate shots, then standard 50gr hollow point.

One thing I like of ARs you can have 2 different uppers and same lower, example I have a standard 20" for "fun" shooting, and I can add a super match 24" for precison shots, it all takes 15 seconds to switch

[FlyingV]

+1 for the Dtech! I absolutely love mine! Dime size groups at 100 yards with Black Hills Red Box 52gr Match Hollow points.

Make sure you get a match grade trigger on it though. The standard factory triggers don't cut it.

[Moose-Hunter]

Originally, I was thinking of a DPMS in .243. However, that would mean an AR-10 platform, correct? If so, that would take away my second choice for uppers being a .204 set up... Now, I'm looking at the .223, 20" to 24" S.S. bull, tube fore end of some sort, flat top... And yes, a match grade trigger!! With this rifle going to be my second yote gun, do you think the 20" barrel, I could call on it to reach out and touch those P-Dogs at 300+ yards as well?

What configurations are you guys shooting?

[picksbigwagon]

Yes on a 243 in an AR format, however you can do a 243 in the ar-15 but it is a 243 wssm, which if you reload shouldn't be a problem, if you are buying ammo, it will break the bank.

Call Mike Milli and talk with him, he has a wealth of knowledge and will not steer you wrong.

[Valv]

If you go with a 204 you will be able to use a standard .223 lower, and just add a .204 upper (the magazine section si same). With the .243 you will get stuck with a complete new gun which won't be able to use anything else besides the .243 since the magazine, and trigger assembly are proprietary for this caliber.

20" bull barrel with do just fine at 300yds, you can go with a 24" for extra precision at longer range, but it will add a little of weight. You can flute the barrel to lose weight and add cooling.

Call the D-Tech guys, or if you have a friend dealer he might be able to explain all the options too.

I've got all my info from a close friend of mine which is a dealer, AR collector, and target shooter.

[CASTnBLAST]

I agree with picks,talk to Mike! Nice guy and very knowledgeable,can build you a heckuva gun exactly the way you want.

[Kodiak]

get a handgun purchase permit.

go to a certain gunshop in minnetonka get yourself a stripped lower for 109.00, buy a lower parts kit and buttstock online for 100.00, then buy a bull 24 barrel upper off of midway for 450.00 and you have a nice dpms shooter for under 750bucks!!

best of all no excise tax because you didnt buy a complete "gun"

[Moose-Hunter]

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get a handgun purchase permit.

go to a certain gunshop in minnetonka get yourself a stripped lower for 109.00, buy a lower parts kit and buttstock online for 100.00, then buy a bull 24 barrel upper off of midway for 450.00 and you have a nice dpms shooter for under 750bucks!!

best of all no excise tax because you didnt buy a complete "gun"

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I certainly like this kind of price tag!! And, needing to explore all options, I may need to look into this a bit deeper. I already have my permit to acquire, so that's one hurdle I don't need to jump... I believe I know of this shop your talking about. Is it the one that specializes in reloading? If not, shoot me an email with the correct info... [email protected]

[Valv]

Don't forget to add $ 140 for the trigger, and another $ 70 for the scope mount.

[Ryan Berger]

got my RRA 2 stage and lower parts kit with pistol grip for $140

[Moose-Hunter]

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Don't forget to add $ 140 for the trigger, and another $ 70 for the scope mount.

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OOPS... Kind of forgot about those two items. Hmmm.... Running a tally here, it seems as if I'm getting quite close to my budget either way I go. If I can pick up a fully functional firearm for a cost within a couple hundred of building one, I'll probably go that route to have the QA from the builder.

Me thinks Mike's phone will be ringing in the very near future...

As a side note: With all the AR research I've been doing lately, I think I pulled at least one, possibly two of my buddys over to "the dark side". Do you know if Mike gives a discount on quantity purchases?

[steiger]

we do alot of coyote hutning northern iowa and 10 of us use ar's dpms is like a mossberg shotgun they are cheap. you kinda get what you pay for when you buy a AR. We have had great luck with the bushmasters and rock rivers. Colt is prolie the top in AR's but you pay for it. i would go with a flat top 24'inch bull barrel rock river. "varmitor"

or the 24' inch bushmaster super varmit Both great guns never had problems with them 1000 to 1150 will get you a new one well worth the extra money. 204 are fast but spendy to shoot i would stick to the 223 wolf .223 62 grain,200 bucks for a thousand rounds. break it in shoot 20 rounds clean 50 clean 75 clean then every 100 your barrel will last alot longer if you break it in. remington also came out with a AR have not heard much about them but i would check it out. good luck

[picksbigwagon]

dude, don't use wolf steel cased varnish coated bullets...get some white box winchester 55 grain fmj's or military fmj's and shoot that barrel in like steiger said. Make sure you clean the ever loving grease out of the barrel first though. Count the number of patches it takes, shoot five rounds clean it again. count the patches, continue until it only takes 4-5 patches to get the barrel clean, and you are done. Take your time, don't heat up the barrel.....as far as a group discount, call mike and ask him. be alot easier to split the gas up three ways

[Valv]

I don't think DPMS are the cheap guns, Vulcan, Olympics and Rock river are the bottom of the line. DPMS is actually used in competiton shooting, and Bushmaster has an overrated name.

This doesn't mean they are all bad or good guns, it all depends on which part you build it with, proper break in ( I have another method that the others, and it's listed on DPMS manual), and proper care of your rifle.

Definitely don't use the 62gr, I would go any larger than 55gr., that also depends on your barrel twist

[picksbigwagon]

Hey Valv, I bet my dad can beat up your dad! I own an olympic and it hits where I point it, usually 2-4 times in a row if I do my part behind the trigger and not drink coffee for a couple days. Lots of good advice here Moose, good luck and when you finally decide, put up some pictures and let us know how she shoots. Of course, that 243 of yours is shooting awfully good as well

[Valv]

Tom, your is out of "specs", it's DTech anymore not an Oly, that makes the difference. I had the worse of the ARs which is the Vulcan Arms, people swears they are soooo bad. I had one and used it for a while, got pretty good results, not like the DPMS or any more "accurized" guns, but defnitely it was not as most people describe them.

I cannot shoot good unless I have a bag rest anyway.

Moose shoot me an email.

My experience (not much) tells me to stay somewhat lighter, we can all have tack drivers but when you have to carry a 12lbs gun my steady hold is for a very limited time, even with a stick, I found to be more accurate on the field with a lighter gun. Now if we are talking bench and gun rest, that's another story.

[Moose-Hunter]

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Moose shoot me an email.

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Email is on the way...

[picksbigwagon]

AMEN to the weight issue Valv, I was walking this fall, did about 4-5 miles in a morning walking between sets and by the end I was thinking about getting my AR fluted, but I really don't want to mess with my barrel. Shooting sticks are a must, and I can keep her pretty steady with those shooting sticks, off hand it is muzzle heavy, but off of bags, it works pretty darn well. I am just trying to dial in the hand loads right now. stepping up to 60 gr. vmax to see what I can get at 2-300 yards with her.

[Moose-Hunter]

Well guys... I dropped the hammer on a new DPMS AR last night!! I picked up a 24" S.S. Bull flat top and can't wait to put some lead down the pipe.

I had a bipod from a previous rifle and threw that on... Man what a tank!!! She's a heavy one that's for sure!! Besides the weight, the first thing I noticed was a very slight bit of "loose-ness" between the upper and lower. Dropped in one of those wedge deals and it took it right out. Don't get me wrong... The fit was not sloppy be any means. I'm just VERY VERY picky when it comes to anything that is even the slightest bit loose...

I also picked up a B-Square scope mount. I'm not too thrilled with it but for the price I paid, we'll see what happens. A JP trigger is on the way as well as an ACE skeleton stock. Originally, I was going to use the Leupold VX-111 4.5-14 x 44AO off my .270 but have since changed my mind and ordered up a 4-16x50 mil dot.

When I get over the "new daddy syndrome", I'll be talking to Mike at D-Tech for a bit of custom work... Fluting the barrel comes to mind. And maybe a compensator of some sort...

Needless to say, I'm WAY over budget already and it's only going to get worse from here on out... Oh well... What can ya do, right? Thus is the life on an "EBR"...

[Valv]

Congrats Moose !!! That's a nice gun, I had same unit and was impressed, I sold it due to the weight, but that's a personal choice.

I am sure you've got a 1-9 twist, get some 50 or 55 grain ammo and go get it.

Be sure to follow the break in procedure as DPMS instructs, it really pays off.

If you can make it to Le Sueur there's a shooting range with 400yards max targets, it's nice to sight it.

Let's see a picture when you're done

[picksbigwagon]

Welcome to the dark side moose.......I have found 55 gr's very accurate. Take you time to shoot that barrel in correctly. I used FMJ's not sure what DPMS suggests. Take along a 22 so when your trigger finger gets itchy, you can just blow through a brick of 22's instead of burning up your new barrel. I don't think my gun settled down until I had 200+ down the barrel....I still need to dirty it up after I clean it, she likes to be dirty........

[Kodiak]

 Originally Posted By: Valv

Congrats Moose !!! That's a nice gun, I had same unit and was impressed, I sold it due to the weight, but that's a personal choice.

I am sure you've got a 1-9 twist, get some 50 or 55 grain ammo and go get it.

Be sure to follow the break in procedure as DPMS instructs, it really pays off.

If you can make it to Le Sueur there's a shooting range with 400yards max targets, it's nice to sight it.

Let's see a picture when you're done

caribou has a 400yd?

[picksbigwagon]

actually caribou has a 350 yd range. They have 25, 50, 100, 150, 200, and 350. THe last time I was there they needed to do some damage control. Looked like someone had great fun shooting the steel posts that held up the chicken wire for the targets. I like that range for availability and but the last time I was there I was disapointed in how trashed it was. looked like they were gonna expand the shooting area too with a new slab in front of the 25yd hill.

[Moose-Hunter]

Thanks Guys!!! The "dark side" feels pretty good!! Not to the wallet however..

"BRD" is already taking it's toll with a few things being ordered up today... I should have it all up and running by the weekend and ready to complete the barrel break in. I already have 5 rounds through her and 5 cleanings under her belt. I was not quite the dirty shooter as I thought it was going to be.

Tell me a bit about Black Hills ammo... I see that it's considered a "reman" and I was wondering if this was going to be a good choice for break in or not as DPMS say the use of "reloaded" ammo will void any warranty. Currently, I have a few boxes of Hornady 55 grain V-Max that I'll be using.

Caribou eh? Do you happen to know if the rifle range is still in operation? Also, what are their charges?

[FlyingV]

Moose, My Dtech loves the Black Hills 52 gr match moly hollowpoint. Dime sized groups at 100 yards and no problems.

If I remember right, the blue boxes are re-man and the red boxes are new ammo. Either works well for me.

You'll want to stay away from the real cheap brands of ammo. Some of them are steel bullets with a copper "plating", not a copper jacket. These will wear your barrel out fast.

I bet if you asked DPMS about the Blackhills reloads, they would tell you go right ahead and use it.

[picksbigwagon]

They have a website, if you look them up on the DNR site their number is there as well....Last time I was there it was $10 for unlimited time.

I used to shoot dime size groups with BH blue reman 52 grainer vmax, but I am reloading the 55's and 60 grain vmax now. I have discovered that seating depth is key with my AR. Black Hills seats their ammo a little longer than other manufacturers I measured. Steer clear of all steel cased ammo, it has that green lacquer on it......I used to have an SKS that used to gobble up that green steel, but I will not shoot it in my AR, partly because of the $ I spent on it......

[Kodiak]

just dont shoot the ultramax, i used that on my lr-308 dpms and it ripped the lips off the cases the brass is junk from ultramax..

[Valv]

 Originally Posted By: Kodiak

just dont shoot the ultramax, i used that on my lr-308 dpms and it ripped the lips off the cases the brass is junk from ultramax..

I agree 100%, do not use Ultramax, I had a box and I couldn't even get close to 4" at 100yards.

I actually liked Federal 55gr softpoint for general shooting and Hornady VMax 55gr for hunting.