Oil Change Interval on new GMC Sierra

[Walleye Guy]

I recently purchased a new GMC Sierra SLT Crew Cab. I just hit 3000 miles this weekend on the way home from the cabin. This morning I called my local dealer to set up an appointment for an oil change. The service advisor said the truck does not need an oil change until I get a message from the truck that says the oil life is nearing zero. He said the truck has sensors that measure the oil life. The alogorithm for assessing oil life includes miles driven, temperature of the oil and a few other things. Right now the computer in the truck says the oil life is as 60%.

Should I wait until the computer says I need an oil change or should I have one done before that? With new vehicles I usually like to make sure that I get that first oil change at or before 3000 miles.

Thanks on advance.

WG

[Shack]

The oil man,

First off, I will say synthetic oils are the way to go. I still have a concern at first with eng. break in (rings to seat). Beyond that heavy duty and synthetic go hand and hand. I am referring to diesel engines in this post (mostly to the 6.0L Ford). All though Ford Motor company has something different to say about that (oil runs injectors). That is a whole different topic though.

I will sum this up into a very easy thought out aspect. Since ford has come out with the 6.0L, warranty claims have gone threw the roof. After the first year of production, that pretty much put a stop to all self authorizing (technicians) claims. Almost all repairs were subject to pre authorization from Ford Hot Line (Detroit).

Ford, as most people know has gone threw hard times financially. The loop hole they used when a 6.0L would implode, is get the customers maintenance records. It clearly states in the owners manual, IF YOU DO NOT COMPLIE WITH THE REGULAR SCHUDULE MAINTANCE, THIS COULD VOID ANY FUTURE WARRENTY REPAIPS (may not be exact, but read your owners manual). This is a large loop hole they would have against a diesel owner, who ran a maintenance schedule supplied by a synthetic oil company. This repair is by no way shape or form subject to authorization from a “salesman”, “Service Manager”, “Dealer Principle (owner)” or any other entity other than FORD MOTOR COMPANY.

Zone reps, area managers had no say. The only one who had any impute was the area “Head Hunter”, the factory engineer representative. Once he saw the factory maintenance schedule was not followed he would void all warranty on engine (this is the guy who will void your warranty if he finds evidence of a tunner or chip). At this point, if you have further questions about this, please contact your local dealer and ask when the next time a factory representative will be visiting. Most likely in Metro area it will be Ed or Randy (last names with held for obvious reasons). Ask them about running 10,000, 20,000 or 30,000 on an oil change. You will get your end result answer at the dealer level. No test, no nothing, either customer paided or towed truck else were.

Now I have never heard of any recourse further down the road, it possibly could of happened.

I do not know.

P.S.

I never knew why local synthetic dealers brag up long life oil. Synthetic is not all that much more and the sooner people change it, the sooner they buy their oil.

Synthetic is Very good oil. I still change my synthetic oil pretty much at regular intervals, thus I buy more. I do think it helps make engines last longer.

Double P.S.

The factory engineer representative is no way, shape or form employed by a franchise dealership. They are employed by the manufacture of the vehicle. Dealerships have very little say in what is authorized on large dollar amount repairs.

[Shack]

One more thought!

The manufactures warranty pays almost the same price as the customer would have to pay out of their pocket. Most times if a owner of a truck was stuck for a large repair bill, they would tow truck out of dealership and go to another repair shop. In this case that “franchise” dealership would loose all the factory warranty money. In a 6.0L engine replace it was $12,000.00 plus install (from factory). Most times I knew customer could get it done cheaper else wear.

I would fight with manufacture on customers behalf to get repairs covered. This got me my commission on the factory warranty sale and made me (dealership) look good and the customer would come back in future.

To think a dealership wants to blow a customer off is pure idiocy. The customer is the only thing a dealership has. Most cases they will stand behind you (especially if you bought your car their). But the factory/manufacture has the end say in large dollar repairs. Regardless. Most times a large dollar repair involves the engine, were the oil is at.

Good luck!

[Whoaru99]

I really don't want to argue, because I believe what you are saying is true about "the factory" denying claims. However, they're probably working on the odds system that odds are, people are going to take "No" for the answer most of the time. Hey, if you don't put up a fuss about "No", it must have been the right answer, eh?

About the chips and tuners, they can't void warranty carte blanche because of that either. The factory has to prove (when push comes to shove) a direct cause and effect to step out of their warranty responsibility. Some do very well at trying to make their problem your problem.

See how the situation changes when you ask for the results of the failure analysis in writing and tell them that you want the parts for an independent analysis. They CAN'T say no to giving you the parts if they say you're on the hook for paying.

It's not cool to play that game if it is your fault, but OTOH, if you strongly believe you're not at fault, that's another story.

[Shack]

Whoaru99,

The last thing I would want to do is argue on this site. If you are a member, you are my friend.

The end result is “how far will the customer go”. This pushes way beyond the three to four weeks you rig is down due to repairs. A court of law can over turn a decision from the factory. But like you said, how many people are willing to go that distance and find out the unknown. Most times Joe public is stuck paying the bill.

My argument is definitely not against synthetic oils and what their claims are. It is helping out a fellow Fm”er before he or she would end up in this situation. I have seen it. No coverage at time of failure. This causes customer to be in a bad situation. If I can help this, I will proceed with my point of view from experience.

Now, the one thing (a whole another topic) is tuners.

The first thing I would do if I owned a diesel is head over to my buddy Dave H in Big lake and have him tune the heck out of my new truck (old or new) . I would do this for fuel economy and performance (raw power). BUT!!!!!! I do not care what controller, chip or device you have. If a “Ford” area factory engineer finds a unit or scans for evidence of a foreign device, he is upheld by the manufacture to “VOID THE WARRANTY”. This is the end result. Again, Again, contact your local dealer on this matter.

CHIPS ARE COOL! I have driven in trucks that had their settings on the max. It is one of the most mind blowing experiences you can get (short of a super stock). Plus they get you very good economy.

[Whoaru99]

That's cool. We're cool.

Just expressing a point of view from "the inside".

That's one thing about warranty, it's kind of a sucky position in many respects. Management thinks you are too easy, the customer thinks you are too hard. At the end of the day you have to live with your decsions.

Sometimes management doesn't like it, sometimes the customer doesn't like it, sometimes you split it.

[Shack]

I will make this down to the point! By pass the dealer, go further than the area Rep.!

1-800-241-3673 (ford).

Anyone doubting what I have to say, call this number and ask them the following!

1) Can I accede the recommended scheduled maintenance and guaranty factory warranty coverage of failed component!

2) Can I install an unauthorized factory enhancer to my diesel engine or any other engine under factory warranty, I.E. Tuner or chip and still guaranty warranty factory coverage of a component in the event of a failure?

I am sure at this point, they will ask for your VIN number!

I know this is more funny than one thinks, but try it. See what they say.

I do not know what GM phone number is, but you could find it and do the same.

[Whoaru99]

Hey now...

I never said, nor intended to imply, warranty was unconditionally guaranteed. Warranty coverage is ALWAYS contingent on what caused the failure.

[hondavxr]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I know even BMW and Mercedes do a 12,000 oil change interval here in the US

---

Don't those vehicles specifically call for synthetic?

---

Yes, those Manf's state that only synthetic oil be used. And they rip you off, you must do the oil change at the dealership to not void the warranty, which runs around $300 a pop. They act like they have some super high tech oil, that you only can get it at the dealership. I know that it is probably just Mobil 1 with their names over it.

[Whoaru99]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I know even BMW and Mercedes do a 12,000 oil change interval here in the US

---

Don't those vehicles specifically call for synthetic?

---

Yes, those Manf's state that only synthetic oil be used. And they rip you off, you must do the oil change at the dealership to not void the warranty, which runs around $300 a pop. They act like they have some super high tech oil, that you only can get it at the dealership. I know that it is probably just Mobil 1 with their names over it.

---

I'd like to see the WRITTEN policy on that requirement. Sounds like it could be a violation of the "sales tie-in" provision of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Note, there are exceptions (waivers) but they are relatively uncommon.

From Title 15, Chapter 50, 2302 of the US Code:

© Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

[Shack]

Whoaru99,

That post was not directed towards you. My AOL shut down on me last night and I could not get a connection.

Hey, I know we have "high jacked" this thread in more ways than one, but! Whoaru99 what OEM place did you work at. Was it the "G" down in Brooklyn Park by 81?

[Scott K]

I will throw in my .002, along with 18 yrs of dealership experience ( ford ), although the main topic was a gm.

Shackbash is correct on what he is saying. Myself being a diesel tech from ford, worked on diesels since 91, a senior master ford tech since 99. I also worked at a reputal dealer for this time frame.

The first thing I have to say is " change your oil" when recommended by the cars manual. Maintenance is cheep, repairs are not, if the manual says to change oil at 5000, I wouldnt go over that. I change mine at 3000 miles. They dont tell you this to make money on oil changes, most places lose money on doing your oil change. If your car is in the shop every 3000 or 5000 miles and getting a good look over for loose parts, bad brakes, or whatever, thats what they make the money on, but they are also looking out for your safety. It is in your best interest to change your oil when recommended, its looking out for your investment!

Now synthetic oil, first off in the diesels ford does not recommend using it, I know alot of people who use it with no problems, but I have also known a few trucks that had problems when using it. Its not an engine wearing issue, its a drivability concern. If synthetics where the magic fluid they say it is, dont you think the manufaturer would be putting it in from the factory? Lets see they claim, better economy, less engine wear, if these where true claims, dont you think they would use them? I will assure you they do lots of testing, and if they can get better fuel economy just off a different oil, or longer engine life of a oil, dont you think they would recommend synthetic oil? As for running it for 20-30k miles, some people do it, works great for them, I wouldnt if its under warranty! If the manual says to change your oil at 5k, and you dont until 20k, you have engine damge, the manual said to change your oil at 5k, go after the oil company that said 20k if you want warranty then! Its a good guideline, if you were to be the guy writing the checks out for damaged engines, would you want the oil changes done at 5k, or 20k?

I will also tell you if you bring your vehicle in to the dealer for all mainenance under warranty, and at 10k out of warranty you have a major break down, I bet the dealer will step up for you to get the repair covered under warranty. I will also bet that if the dealer hasnt ever seen you, and you come in 10k out of warranty and you have a bad tranny, that they wont be offering any after warranty adjustments to you!

Power chips and tuners-- They are really cool, they can add up to and more then 100 hp, and over 100 ftlbs torque. Again they factory knows you can do this by reprograming the computer, if the vehicle was strong enough to handle the extra power and torque dont you think they would just program it for that amount the the factory? The tuners can get you alot better fuel economy also, this is something else the manufacturers are fighting to get,if it was good for the vehicle to have a tuner in it with all these benifits, why do you suppose they dont just program it in from the factory?

Power chips and tuners have been directly responsible for me making several of my house payments over the years. There are 3 different groups of people who buy power chips and tuners, people who want power and torque to pull, people who want to squeel their tires, and people who want more fuel economy. Of them 3 groups there are 2 of them that will be in for tranny repairs, and engine repairs, I will let you figure out wich ones are in for repairs.

Bottom line follow factory recommendations if you want them to honor their warranty, if not its your baby!

[BobT]

Excelent post!

So many of us have this "they are out to get us" mentality that they forget that if these claims were true the manufacturers would use them to their advantage in the market. The manufacturers make money selling new vehicles, not repairing them. This argument might have some possible merit if the manufacturer had an exclusive on the repairs but they don't.

So far with my 2001 Ford I have used my dealer's service exclusively except for a couple self-service attempts and I can tell you they have been very competetive. I know because my wife uses a local repair shop for hers and the costs for the services are nearly identical.

My first oil change I decided to do it myself thinking I could do it less than the dealer. Here's what happened. The oil and filter cost me $17 at the time. I then had to dispose of the old oil myself. How many of the 34 inspection points do you think I performed on my vehicle? Maybe a half-dozen. What was the dealer's price? $19.95 and that included a truck wash, vacuuum, and interior window cleaning. I figured I got over $40 worth of service for $19.95. Today it is $21.95.

At one point they told me my air cleaner needed replacing. I figured I would save money and buy my own. The new one cost me $27 at a local auto parts store. Guess what the dealer would have charged including installatin. $27!

I change my oil and rotate tires every 5K miles. After 65K miles my tires are still in the green for wear. I believe they'll be replaced for weather-checkign long before they'll wear out the tread.

I am more than satisfied.

Bob

[Jeremy airjer W]

4wanderingeyes, great post!

I have been in the business for over 13 years. I purchased my first brand new Toyota in '06. I did the first oil change myself (dealer oil and filter). After that its been to the dealer for service. I agree 100% if the vehicle is under warranty than have the dealer service it!

A perfect example we had a Hyundai in a while back for a maintenance timing belt at around 60k. Hyundai has a 100k warranty (if you follow there maintenance guidelines to a T I might add). Something went wrong and the end result was two broken valves and a hole through a piston (I also might add this was not done by myself!!!). All we are responsible for is replacing the engine with a comparable or better engine. This apparently voids Hyundai's warranty, and now there are lawyers involved.

After the warranty is up than do your own service or bring it to an independant, or if your happy with the dealer stay with them.

I agree that full service shops and dealers are not making money changing oil (except the rapid oil places but that a whole different topic for a another thread). On average I produce well over a $100 an hour for our shop. If I did nothing but oil changes all day I would be below $40 an hour and the paychecks would be about 1/3 of they are now.

[Shack]

Oh you tech's

I was a service advisor for 11 years and when the JAFO lane was full, trying to get a skilled tech to do an oil change was like pulling teeth . It is just like pulling money out of their pocket if they are having a good week (if it pays only .2 of an hour, some pay .5 an hour this is better). Most times they would do it and if they found something I would make a huge effort to sell it. Sometimes it would work out great for them. A little gravy on the side ..

It is true, JAFO's and rotates are money losers even when a JAFO tech is backed up, let alone having a reg. skilled tech (uffda) doing them. Like Airjer said, maintenance (to be competitive) is only billed out at $40-$60 per hour. Regular shop rate is around $100.00 per hour. Big difference, especially when paying a skilled technician. But they are to corner stone of a shop, because it does draw in customers. Most places are going to free rotates and I could see in the future FREE JAFO's. It is getting that tight in this industry.

Bring in tires and that is a whole nother ball of wax....

[Whoaru99]

No, I actually work at one of the manufacturing facilites of this particular OEM. I'd prefer for the exact details to remain mostly private.

There was some mention of policy adjustments for situations not covered by normal warranty policy and I fully agree with what's been said in that regard.

even if a customer is a good customer warranty per se may still not be possible because those terms are pretty much black and white. However, good customers (those that have services performed by dealers, use OEM parts and fluids, repeat sales/purchases) have much more likelyhood to get a policy adjustment/warranty concession.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Oh you service writers! Glad to see that its the same battle between good and evil everywhere!!

Thats funny, I call all of our new guys JAFO!! Most og them are to young to know what I am talking about.

I don't mind doing them at all........If theres nothing else to do. I'll gladly toss the waiting oil change aside to do some real work!!